23 Years Guard service, on ADOS orders with LOD's....medical retirement?

Old Top

Registered Member
#1
Question: I have 23 good years for retirement, with about 11 years AD time. I'm rated 80% VA (haven't drawn any) and have been on ADOS for approximately 9 years now. My medical conditions are getting to the point I'm not able to keep up the way I should. Being evaluated for sleep apnea soon. Question is, if diagnosed with sleep apnea, PTSD, and other physical ailments, all while on active orders, can I qualify for medical retirement and receive retired pay immediately, before reaching age 60? It's all confusing to me, any help is greatly appreciated!
 

RonG

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#2
Re: 10 U.S. Code § 1201 - Regulars and members on active duty for more than 30 days: retirement

I believe your answer is at https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/1201

This is not my area of expertise, but you appear to qualify. Hopefully, another with more knowledge in this area will chime in.

Good luck,
Ron

added: You would have to waive retired pay dollar for dollar in the amount of VA compensation received (if approved for a CH 61 retirement). Combat Related Special Compensation (CRSC) might be a factor in an approved disability retirement such as what you described. It requires an application and subsequent approval by the service concerned.
https://www.dfas.mil/retiredmilitary/disability/crsc.html
 

jlmills70

Registered Member
#3
Hopefully you are not Michigan Guard...... Just kidding.... I will say this... I had 19 years 11 months and 25 days as a SFC in the guard and about half of that was active duty... I have and I was "KICKED" to the curb. NO ONE will do you any favors and I found out it is "DOG EAT DOG"... that is my experience and now have a Army Board case well over 2 years old with no answer. And since I was "Kicked" I also have been fighting service connection with the VA.... Within last year forced to medically retire from civilian job and just this month had that pay reduced.

So "TOP" make sure to have all your medical documents in your medical file. As you and I know there is not a medical system in the Guard. You get hurt or get the snivels and see civilian doctors but do those records make it to your military medical record? Absolutely not.... Not your LOD and anything that you would expect would make it there. Hell even the vaccines not only don't always make in the computer system as they say they do but do you think a paper copy is in your medical record? Even wonder why every time you went to a "mandatory shot clinic" you always had the same shots to take and hopefully brought your personal "yellow" shot record? HHMMMM .....

Remember these things... According to Army regulations any one on "long term - more that 30 days" Active duty orders whether full Title 10 and any Title 32 ADSW, AGR, AT or many other acronyms to the like ARE to be kept on orders and processed like any post deployment soldier. When I redeployed to Camp Atterbury in Indiana and wondered why the seperate medical hold and everything. Well the medical hold there is the only MTF in the "entire" Great Lakes Area. And since it is separate then they just do what is right and follow the Army regulations... No one has a "chip" on their shoulder or a need to use you to save the Army money somehow... and by the way when I was in Germany I had to have a record release filled out or even those records would have to made it to my file.

Essentially if you have your full civilian record incorporated into the military record you should be ok. Again the Army does an MEB while you are placed on the TRDL (Temp Retire Duty List) for up to 2 years. You civilian doctor should not be evaluating you and you should actually be connected to or sent to the MTF serving your Unit/Command/State.... and then things like the Army/VA Legacy Review process will most like be handled correctly and you will have VA review and answer or rating before you are placed on the PRDL (permanent retire duty list) there you can be reevaluated every 5 years by a military doctor and will receive Disability retirement pay which is a formula based on years served which may be based on your 11 and not 23 years and the disability percentage the board decided on. Big perks are medical, dental, you will continue getting COLA's and pay increases even though your pay will be less then previously used to.

That is why the Concurrent Receipt Law was enacted. The military and the VA and everyone else for that matter see disability differently. The military sees things as "TOP you now have permanent back damage and cant lift more than 30 pounds but that only effects your military performance 40 percent of the time. So that means you receive 40% of your base pay for that disability. Every condition is related separately and independently against duty performance and then added up to a final percent which might be 60% but don't worry because the VA is a whole other game and by my estimation and done in a more sound manner.

The VA looks at how the conditions effect how you will live and how the medical establishment views conditions and effects on peoples lives. An example strange though true. I served with a guy that had both of his breasts removed for tumors. Because the cancer and having to have them fully removed and this fact also means re-occurrence is inevitable the VA rates each breast at 50 percent. So both are automatic 100%. The ARMY MEB board did not rate him for this. You say WOW ... the Army states he is not missing any work and where a provided uniform that "by the way" everyone wears.

Another helper if needed is the "8 Year Rule" this little rule is sort of like a "tenure rule". The military obviously recognizes you will not come out in the same condition you went it. That is why they are picky in the beginning. So if you survive at least 8 year of "active" abuse then they own you and and future medical issues and from what I can tell this is "Unconditional"... The "active" part can be 8 years in one stretch or in increments. So in my case I did 7 years 5 months 14 days during original enlistment and then 11 months 12 days on a deployment.....and so on.... ""BUT" I obviously met the 8 years and so all the B>LLS>>T I have been through since December of 2008 are all a nightmare and completely uncalled for .....

Once I have won I plan to try and get this BULLHOCKEY fixed. There is no reason why anyone should have to go through the crap I have and there no back compensation great enough to fix it. SO TOP if you are in goods terms with your Commander "Company" that is... Then have him/her write you a letter ordering all your civilian medical records be included in your military medical records and have them copied and personally take your order and the records to the record section which may be at your State HQ and then get their phone number and call to make sure they were filed. Everything is electronic now so it takes some work on their behalf that is why you need to check back and BTW keep a copy of them and your orders just in case. I discover everyday something or someway how I was so wrongly mistreated. I wish you the best and the endstate is survival.

When you turn 60 or 62 to... you still have to go see the State Retirement people with your NGB 22 and all other paperwork, to include medical retirement and such and you will be switched to regular retirement and most likely a boost in pay and by the way still continue to draw the VA compensation as you had been.

Good luck and I know this was long but read it twice if needed contact me directly if you have questions jlmills70...... at gmail.com......... and if I cant give you an answer then I will say this ... I was an exceptional Intelligence Analyst for 19 years 11 months and 25 days and if you know anything about us that is "Spooky" is we will dig and endlessly search for the truth and share it.

V/R,

J. Mills

"Still waiting for answers and what is right and deserved"
 

RonG

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#4
Re: Concurrent Receipt Laws

While it is accurate to state that the DoD and VA ratings are often different (different criteria). Concurrent Receipt was not enacted to fix that difference, although it may have that effect.

“Concurrent receipt” refers to the simultaneous receipt of two types of monetary benefits:
military retired pay and Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) disability compensation. Prior to
2004, existing laws and regulations dictated that a military retiree
could not receive two payments from federal agencies for the same purpose. As a result, military retirees with physical disabilities recognized by the VA would have their retired pay “offset” or reduced dollar-for-dollar by the amount of their VA compensation. Most retirees who receive CRSC or CRDP are not CH 61 retirees.

The two primary components of the concurrent receipt program: Combat-
Related Special Compensation (CRSC) and Concurrent Retirement and Disability Payments
(CRDP).

Effective January 1, 2008: Eligibility for CRSC was extended to military disability retirees (i.e., Chapter 61 of title 10 United States Code) and members retired under active duty TERA rules. There are special rules that apply to the maximum payment made to CH 61 retirees.

Special CRDP Rules for Chapter 61 Disability Retirees: Members retired for disability under Chapter 61 of title 10 United States Code may be entitled to CRDP only if they have at least 20 years of service qualifying for regular or reserve retirement. Additionally, any disability retired pay that is in excess of retired pay to which that member would be otherwise entitled (i.e., for years of service) remains subject to offset and may not be restored under the CRDP program.
 

RonG

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#5
2015 figures for CRSC:

2015 Retirement Totals (USCG Excluded):


2015 Total: 1,982,184
Officers: 536,138
Enlisted: 1,446,046
(All living retirees)

Number of Retirees Receiving CRSC, 2015:
--Regular Retirement: 48,526
--Reserve Retirement: 9,269
--Chapter 61, Disability Retirement: 30,815
 

golfrnut

Registered Member
#6
To be granted retirement where you are immediately entitled to retirement payments, you have to be rated over 30% for things the military deems “unfit” for service. The 80% doesn’t really mean anything unless some/all those conditions are considered “unfit” to continue service. If any of the unfit conditions total up to be 30% or more, then yes, you are considered medically retired. Unless those conditions are combat related or you have over 20 years of active duty service points, you will not collect concurrent retirement payments of both VA disability and you military retirement until age 60. If you don’t qualify through the above, you receive which ever payment is the higher of the two, with the caveat that whatever tax free amount you are entitled to through the VA, you are still not taxed on. As an example, if someone collects $500 VA and their mil pay is $1500, you will receive $1500 a month but $500 of that is tax deferred. If your VA payment is higher than your mil pay, you will receive your va payment and all will be tax free. At age 60, you collect both concurrently.
 

RonG

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#7
Re: "As an example, if someone collects $500 VA and their mil pay is $1500, you will receive $1500 a month but $500 of that is tax deferred. If your VA payment is higher than your mil pay, you will receive your va payment and all will be tax free. At age 60, you collect both concurrently. "

CRDP includes a requirement of being rated by the VA >= 50%. If the VA rating is less than 50%, then CRDP is not payable.

Members retired for disability under Chapter 61 of title 10 United States Code may be entitled to CRDP only if they have at least 20 years of service qualifying for regular or reserve retirement. Additionally, any disability retired pay that is in excess of retired pay to which that member would be otherwise entitled (i.e., for years of service) remains subject to offset and may not be restored under the CRDP program (see note 1). In the case of a reserve or NG individual, the retirement age requirement (with reduction, if applicable) must be met as well.

Note 1: CRDP does not restore waived DoD disability pay; therefore, only the dollar amount of retired pay for years of service may be restored via CRDP.
 

golfrnut

Registered Member
#8
Re: "As an example, if someone collects $500 VA and their mil pay is $1500, you will receive $1500 a month but $500 of that is tax deferred. If your VA payment is higher than your mil pay, you will receive your va payment and all will be tax free. At age 60, you collect both concurrently. "

CRDP includes a requirement of being rated by the VA >= 50%. If the VA rating is less than 50%, then CRDP is not payable.

Members retired for disability under Chapter 61 of title 10 United States Code may be entitled to CRDP only if they have at least 20 years of service qualifying for regular or reserve retirement. Additionally, any disability retired pay that is in excess of retired pay to which that member would be otherwise entitled (i.e., for years of service) remains subject to offset and may not be restored under the CRDP program (see note 1). In the case of a reserve or NG individual, the retirement age requirement (with reduction, if applicable) must be met as well.

Note 1: CRDP does not restore waived DoD disability pay; therefore, only the dollar amount of retired pay for years of service may be restored via CRDP.

He’s already at 80%, and over 20 years credible service, the years requirment and the >50% is a non-issue. He meets the requirements for concurrent retirement, the only question would be when. CRSC would entitle hime to immediate, otherwise it starts at 60.
 

golfrnut

Registered Member
#9
The other half of that does bring up a good point, the disability retirement takes the higher of either your disability percantage rated “unfit” or your percentage based on years of service, I.E, 50% of high three for 20 years of active military service. Disability Retirement pay is based on whichever is higher. Concurrent retirement is only going to figure in credible years of service (how many points you have) plus your VA disability percentage.
 

gsfowler

Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
#10
Question: I have 23 good years for retirement, with about 11 years AD time. I'm rated 80% VA (haven't drawn any) and have been on ADOS for approximately 9 years now. My medical conditions are getting to the point I'm not able to keep up the way I should. Being evaluated for sleep apnea soon. Question is, if diagnosed with sleep apnea, PTSD, and other physical ailments, all while on active orders, can I qualify for medical retirement and receive retired pay immediately, before reaching age 60? It's all confusing to me, any help is greatly appreciated!
With 23 years in (if you have a 20Y letter) you have earned your non-regular (reserve retirement). This retirement is earned and you are eligible to collect it at the age of 60 (or sooner if you have qualifying time as described in the NDAA of 2008).

If is possible to concurrently collect a non-regular (reserve) retirement with VA compensation and pension, as long as you are rated greater than 50% from the VA.

As fas as collecting an immediate medical retirement if you are medically boarded out, there are quite a few factors that come into play. BLUF, we need as much information as we can regarding your scenario to give you an exact answer.
 

RonG

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#11
Re: "He’s already at 80%, and over 20 years credible service, the years requirement and the >50% is a non-issue. He meets the requirements for concurrent retirement, the only question would be when. CRSC would entitle him to immediate, otherwise it starts at 60."

Agreed (except for ">50%").

I incorrectly inferred that you were speaking in general, when you were actually speaking of a specific case. The basis was the remark, "As an example, if someone collects $500 VA and their mil pay is $1500, you will receive $1500 a month but $500 of that is tax deferred. If your VA payment is higher than your mil pay, you will receive your va payment and all will be tax free. At age 60, you collect both concurrently." My incorrect inference was based on the quotation presented here and the fact that the lowest 50% VA comp rate presently is $855.41.
Again, my inference was wrong.

The number of points divided by 360 will determine the creditable service for a reservist/NG.
The VA rating required for CRDP is not >50%; it is >= 50%. But that is a minor point here.
https://www.dfas.mil/retiredmilitary/disability/crdp.html

I think Old Top has been provided with a plethora of info; I am bowing out.
 

Old Top

Registered Member
#12
With 23 years in (if you have a 20Y letter) you have earned your non-regular (reserve retirement). This retirement is earned and you are eligible to collect it at the age of 60 (or sooner if you have qualifying time as described in the NDAA of 2008).

If is possible to concurrently collect a non-regular (reserve) retirement with VA compensation and pension, as long as you are rated greater than 50% from the VA.

As fas as collecting an immediate medical retirement if you are medically boarded out, there are quite a few factors that come into play. BLUF, we need as much information as we can regarding your scenario to give you an exact answer.
 

Old Top

Registered Member
#13
Thank you all for your input. I have conditions from Afghanistan that have been approved LOD from 2010, to include both knees torn/arthralgia, lumbar spine issues, left shoulder tear. With everything I've been rated for at VA, it's currently at 80%. My civilian ortho has completed MRI's on the other shoulder and c-spine, showing a large labrum tear and 3 bulging discs, with one very close to impinging the spinal cord. Because of this, he advised against continued helmet, body armor and such (essentially the questions on the profile form). This is where they have told me I will likely head to a medical board. Another civilian doctor has advised I "likely" have asthma and sleep apnea and is referring me for diagnostics for those. I'm currently still on AD orders, and have been since 2010. I'm in the process of getting everything that's going on now into a LOD, to include the previously diagnosed (by the VA) PTSD.

I've been told by someone at state that if I had over 15 years of AFS, I would receive an immediate medical retirement and start drawing compensation immediately. But with less than 15 AFS, I'll have to wait until the 60 years old eligibility time. I have additional MRI's and such pending soon to figure everything out.

BLUF, it has been my uneducated understanding, that regardless of total time in service, if service connected conditions are deemed unfit for service and are over 30% by the Army, then a medical retirement with immediate benefit draw is warranted. I fully admit I'm ignorant about all of this, and appreciate any and all input.

Thanks in advance.

Top
 

golfrnut

Registered Member
#14
There is a 15 year option that if you are found unfit for a medical condition, you can opt for retirement over being medically seperated with severance if your conditions found unfit total less than 30%. I’ve read about it and know it is real, I just personnally don’t know the process for applying for it. You would have to ask someone smarter than I am on it for that answer. The wait until 60 or your reduced retirement age would still apply when it comes to your military retirment payments though, it just secures your pension as opposed to being medically seperated without retirement.

If those things found unfit total 30% or more, then you will be medically retired and entitled to receive medical and monetary retirment benefits immediately just as though you were active duty.

To collect both VA and military retirment payments concurrently, you need to be rated 50% or more and either have over 20 years woth of active duty service or fall under the CRSC if your disabilities are combat related. Otherwise, if you have a 20 year letter and have atleast 20 “good years”, you would offset payments until age 60 and then be elidgeable to receive concurrent payments after that. Anything under 20 without meeting the above requirements and you cannot collect concurrent payments.

Someone has posted here before that there is a bill out there to change the laws on concurrent payments and allow you to receive both nonmatter what, but I do not know the current status of that one.
 
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