7,200 "AD" points, 7,200 total "retirement points" & "TAFMS"

Hi,
I received my ratings and am within 7 months of getting my 20 AGR TAFMS date. I've been all over the place trying to confirm/validate/find in writing whether or not 7,200 AD points will be equated to 20 active years (and draw immediately versus waiting 15 years to hit 60) or if I must hit my 20 TAFMS date, and points don't really matter. Concurrent receipt now vs 15 years down the road is a huge difference in finances. I have over 60 days leave and will get 20 permissive. So that's almost 3 months to help stretch it out. Doing a VARR should add about another month and half. It's pretty tight now.
I called about every agency I could think of and get conflicting info. VA ratings: 80%; VA 100%.
Thank you.
 
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LoveWar said:
Thanks for putting the bottom line upfront. "It's kicking you out with no benefits" at less than 20%. (the severance pay will not last over two year) The truth hurts and hart braking....
The DoD will keep your butt moving.

Thank you,
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I suggest hiring a private attorney and get working on trying to get the best outcome. Though you won't qualify for severance. They will just discharge you and you will get VA disability until you are eligible to apply for your non regular retirement. When you have 20 good years you qualify for CRDP at that time and will get your earned pension + VA compensation but in the meantime if rated less than 30% you just be out.

If you did try to get severance you would be forfeiting your Reserve/Guard pension and that is a horrible decision. Just a big check that is recouped by VA compensation and no tricare.
 
I did read over the private attorney info you forward to me. At this point in my PEB is will cost over $10,000 to get back on track in a very short period of time. I don't even know if they can move that fast. Don't have the money... Will have to fight DoD solo and you help.

Thanks,
 
LoveWar said:
I did read over the private attorney info you forward to me. At this point in my PEB is will cost over $10,000 to get back on track in a very short period of time. I don't even know if they can move that fast. Don't have the money... Will have to fight DoD solo and you help.

Thanks,
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Then do a lot of research and reach out to your assigned IDES attorney and be proactive.
 
Orange Sky said:
Hi,
I received my ratings and am within 7 months of getting my 20 AGR TAFMS date. I've been all over the place trying to confirm/validate/find in writing whether or not 7,200 AD points will be equated to 20 active years (and draw immediately versus waiting 15 years to hit 60) or if I must hit my 20 TAFMS date, and points don't really matter. Concurrent receipt now vs 15 years down the road is a huge difference in finances. I have over 60 days leave and will get 20 permissive. So that's almost 3 months to help stretch it out. Doing a VARR should add about another month and half. It's pretty tight now.
I called about every agency I could think of and get conflicting info. VA ratings: 80%; VA 100%.
Thank you.
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Good read DA PAM 635-40 section 3-12. It's in blackand white I had to go find it as well
 
Thanks you, Did you get anyone to explain the section 3-12? Is there any way I can contact you outside the form?
 
LoveWar said:
Thanks you, Did you get anyone to explain the section 3-12? Is there any way I can contact you outside the form?
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I am not an expert in this area, but I interpret DA PAM 635-40, 3-12, as providing guidance on qualification for a disability retirement in cases where the DoD disability percentage is less than 30%.

3–12. Twenty years of service as computed under Title 10 United States Code section 1208
In accordance with 10 USC 1201 and 1204, a Soldier determined unfit for compensable disability is granted disability retirement if the Soldier has either 20 years of service as computed under 10 USC 1208 or a minimum disability rating of 30 percent. It is important that PEBLOs, PEB adjudicators, and transition centers understand the computation of this service, as it can mean the difference between a disability retirement and a disability separation with severance pay when the Soldier does not have the minimum 30 percent. In general, the computation is the sum of the Soldier’s active service, the Soldier’s equivalent years of service for the Soldier’s membership, and/or inactive duty training points. For regular retirement, this combination of service is called 10 USC 1405 service. Unlike regular retirement in which the 10 USC 1405 service is listed only after the Soldier obtains 20 years of active Federal service, equivalent years of service is counted for disability retirement in meeting the 20-year threshold. In summary, a minimum of 7,200 points of combined active duty, membership, and inactive duty training points results in eligibility for a disability retirement.

_____
Invited to comment:
@Provis
@Guardguy11
@chaplaincharlie
@tony292
@RetiredColonel-MikeT
and anyone else who chooses to do so

Ron
 
LoveWar said:
RonG just to add more about me. I am a Reserve not an AGR Soldier.

v/r
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Noted. So…it does not apply to you? The pamphlet discusses Title 10.

Thank you.

Ron
 
Just asking but I am on "active-duty" title 10 going through a PEB. I will retire off active-duty Orders...with the 72,000 points, less than 20% disability. (not sure if 3-12 apply to me/if not what section apply?) Trying to shake tree to get a better answer or find someone who has experience the same.

Once you sign your 199 you give up all your power and DoD is rushing you out the door!

Thanks all,
 
RonG said:
I am not an expert in this area, but I interpret DA PAM 635-40, 3-12, as providing guidance on qualification for a disability retirement in cases where the DoD disability percentage is less than 30%.

3–12. Twenty years of service as computed under Title 10 United States Code section 1208
In accordance with 10 USC 1201 and 1204, a Soldier determined unfit for compensable disability is granted disability retirement if the Soldier has either 20 years of service as computed under 10 USC 1208 or a minimum disability rating of 30 percent. It is important that PEBLOs, PEB adjudicators, and transition centers understand the computation of this service, as it can mean the difference between a disability retirement and a disability separation with severance pay when the Soldier does not have the minimum 30 percent. In general, the computation is the sum of the Soldier’s active service, the Soldier’s equivalent years of service for the Soldier’s membership, and/or inactive duty training points. For regular retirement, this combination of service is called 10 USC 1405 service. Unlike regular retirement in which the 10 USC 1405 service is listed only after the Soldier obtains 20 years of active Federal service, equivalent years of service is counted for disability retirement in meeting the 20-year threshold. In summary, a minimum of 7,200 points of combined active duty, membership, and inactive duty training points results in eligibility for a disability retirement.

_____
Invited to comment:
@Provis
@Guardguy11
@chaplaincharlie
@tony292
@RetiredColonel-MikeT
and anyone else who chooses to do so

Ron
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I highlighted the whole line and then some: active duty, membership, and IDT as long as you have 7200 points, it doesn't differentiate between Title-10 or Title-32, it's all the same. Couple that with having a 20-year letter, and that is what gets you the retirement. So as long as you hit 7,200 points you "should" be good. The problem I have is: what's the difference? Do you get a 20-year retirement and retire at 50% basic pay and get CRDP, or are you stuck with a disability retirement where you're not eligible for CRDP? I don't have that answer, I'm not a finance guy, @RonG is ;) I'm just an IDES guy lol
 
RetiredColonel-MikeT said:
So as long as you hit 7,200 points you "should" be good. The problem I have is: what's the difference? Do you get a 20-year retirement and retire I don't have that answer, I'm not a finance guy, @RonG is ;) I'm just an IDES guy lol
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Hello,

My many hours of research on this matter has not revealed a clear answer.

What I have found is no law that I have reviewed mentions 7200 points as a requirement for active duty retirement. Jason Perry addressed that particular issue on this forum several years ago. I recently quoted him.

Ron
 
This is from 2015:

AF_Defender said:
I'm still curious about this issue though and for the sake of everybody else who has active/guard/reserve time I hope we can get a firm answer on whether or not 7200 AD points equals 20 years AD to qualify for immediate CRPD. (Like me and nwlivewire thought)
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Jason Perry replied: [start] I have already given a "firm answer" on this point.

As a baseline answer- no 7200 points does not automatically equal 20 years "AD to qualify for immediate CRDP". Points do not always equate to years of service- even if divided by 360 (and when they still add up to 20 "years." ) There are cases where they can. For active duty retirement, you need 20 years of active federal service (in the vast majority of cases; there are exceptions, such as TERA).

The same holds true for reserve retirement. For reserve retirement, no 7200 points are not enough....you need 20 "good years." There are situations where 7200 points would qualify for 20 "good years." There are cases where 7200 points would not qualify.

I broke out the relevant statute earlier in this thread. The rules (while maybe confusing to folks) are not so complicated. The bolded part above suggests that there is some ambiguity in the law or regulations. The "firm answer" is as I have laid out before. For active duty retirement, you need 20 years of active service. For reserve retirement, you need 20 years of "good service" as laid out in the calculations under 10 U.S.C. § 12732. [end]
_______

Ron
 
Provis said:
20% or less isn't PDRL or TDRL. Its kicking you out with no benefits and severance check instead. In your case you wouldn't accept the severance check because you would have to forfeit your Reserve/Guard retirement. 30% DOD or higher = permanent disability retirement list or temporary disability retirement list if the unfitting condition isn't considered stable.
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@LoveWar @Provis I received a decision this week. Unfit for duty, 20% DoD rating, 80% VA rating, and Permanent Disability Retirement from Active Duty.
I wonder if that last bit is a typo, because I'm a 20 year reservist w/ ~3200 points. Either I'm hitting the jackpot or it should have said PDRL from reserves.
For transparency, I haven't spoken with the attorney yet to understand what this means.
 
lookatthisgraph said:
@LoveWar @Provis I received a decision this week. Unfit for duty, 20% DoD rating, 80% VA rating, and Permanent Disability Retirement from Active Duty.
I wonder if that last bit is a typo, because I'm a 20 year reservist w/ ~3200 points. Either I'm hitting the jackpot or it should have said PDRL from reserves.
For transparency, I haven't spoken with the attorney yet to understand what this means.
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I don't know the answer but please keep me/us posted. The attorney should be able to advise of the right course of action. Where you on the TDRL at first and now moved to PDRL.....? So, you have a 20 yr. letter from the reserve? Sorry but I have more questions than answers.
 
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LoveWar said:
I don't know the answer but please keep me/us posted. The attorney should be able to advise of the right course of action. Where you on the TDRL at first and now moved to PDRL.....? So, you have a 20 yr. letter from the reserve? Sorry but I have more questions than answers.
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lookatthisgraph said:
@LoveWar @Provis I received a decision this week. Unfit for duty, 20% DoD rating, 80% VA rating, and Permanent Disability Retirement from Active Duty.
I wonder if that last bit is a typo, because I'm a 20 year reservist w/ ~3200 points. Either I'm hitting the jackpot or it should have said PDRL from reserves.
For transparency, I haven't spoken with the attorney yet to understand what this means.
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Let us know. There isn't a way to be PDRL under 30% chapter 61 UNLESS you qualify for another retirement. Do you have 15 good years or more? Yeah it might just be wording and you will be put in grey area retirement but letting us know will help others in similar situations.
 
lookatthisgraph said:
@LoveWar @Provis I received a decision this week. Unfit for duty, 20% DoD rating, 80% VA rating, and Permanent Disability Retirement from Active Duty.
I wonder if that last bit is a typo, because I'm a 20 year reservist w/ ~3200 points. Either I'm hitting the jackpot or it should have said PDRL from reserves.
For transparency, I haven't spoken with the attorney yet to understand what this means.
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Yeah, someone effed up and whether or not you're hitting the jackpot, we all know that when Uncle Sam comes knocking, he's going to take it all and then some back from you.
 
LoveWar said:
Thanks for putting the bottom line upfront. "It's kicking you out with no benefits" at less than 20%. (the severance pay will not last over two year) The truth hurts and hart braking....
The DoD will keep your butt moving.

Thank you,
Click to expand...
More to follow on the break down of the 7200 Points when talking with RSO!
 
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General. From DA Pam 635-40

3–12. Twenty years of service as computed under Title 10 United States Code section 1208In accordance with 10 USC 1201 and 1204, a Soldier determined unfit for compensable disability is granted disability retirement if the Soldier has either 20 years of service as computed under 10 USC 1208 or a minimum disability rating of 30 percent. It is important that PEBLOs, PEB adjudicators, and transition centers understand the computation of this service, as it can mean the difference between a disability retirement and a disability separation with severance pay when the Soldier does not have the minimum 30 percent. In general, the computation is the sum of the Soldier’s active service, the Soldier’s equivalent years of service for the Soldier’s membership, and/or inactive duty training points. For regular retirement, this combination of service is called 10 USC 1405 service. Unlike regular retirement in which the10 USC 1405 service is listed only after the Soldier obtains 20 years of active Federal service, equivalent years of service is counted for disability retirement in meeting the 20-year threshold. In summary, a minimum of 7,200 points of combined active duty, membership, and inactive duty training points results in eligibility for a disability retirement.

Ron
 
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