Air Force PEB Update II

Jason Perry

Benevolent Leader
Site Founder
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#1

I am posting this to update my previous thread on recent changes at the AF PEB.

There is a significant change to AF Formal PEB practice that should be noted. Previously, the practice at the AF FPEB was to bring members in on orders for a week. The first day was inprocessing/orientation and either a face to face meeting with AF assigned military counsel to discuss your case or a follow on appointment in the day or so after reporting in which to accomplish the same. Thereafter, the AF attorney would coordinate with the FPEB staff to set a date for the formal hearing. The additional days were, at that time, used to either get additional examination (often at Wilford Hall MTF) or to get additional evidence from whatever source. Due to the "tyranny of time" (which I will post about later, but have referenced before, which is the pressure on the PEBs to adjudicate cases faster), this practice is no longer the case.

Currently, members are being ordered to report, and to meet with their assigned counsel the same day. The FPEB hearings are being scheduled for the next day. Here is an excerpt from the reporting instructions in one of my client's cases (this is a standard instruction applicable to all AF members):

"1.Reporting to the FPEB: You must report to Randolph AFB, Bldg 663 at 0800 hours on the date indicated above. A map is attached for your use in finding the location. At that time you will be scheduled for an appointment with your assigned counsel. Your formal hearing will be the day after your reporting date, and you can expect to out-process on the 3rd duty day. "

What this indicates is that the time to prepare for the Formal PEB after meeting with assigned AF counsel is now extremely shortened. The point is to alert folks that if they are going to use AF assigned counsel, the preparation time is severely shortened from what the previous practice was before the AF FPEB. This means that prior to travel to Randolph AFB, you must prepare in advance and coordinate much earlier for consultation and preparation of your case with your counsel.

Overall, I think this is a bad thing for AF members. The push to "meet timelines" has resulted in less time for members to get a fair FPEB hearing. If you are in a short timeframe before your AF FPEB report date, you must coordinate as soon as possible with your assigned counsel in order to maximize your chances for success at the FPEB. In my opinion, this change is very bad for members and for the accuracy and fairness of outcomes.

The earlier thread can be found here: http://www.pebforum.com/site/threads/air-force-peb-update.20760/
 

MichaelBunt

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#2
I understand trying to save government money, but this is not the way to do it, I am lucky (I guess), I am already stationed at Randolph, and work 2 buildings away, but for those coming from other locations, they are getting screwed.
 

TSgt Twitch

PEB Forum Veteran
#3
Like with everything else, to shorten process's or to save money, the crux will always be in interest of the AF and against the AF member. Be it getting rid of mechanics and getting more planes, getting rid of the orderly rooms, yet forcing more paperwork down the pipe, getting rid of finance, but changing the entire travel system, shrinking TMO, and making the member coordinate their own move, etc. etc. etc., the burden will always be on the member, always. Once you get a bird on your shoulder or more, you get a complete staff to handle all your misc. business, below that you have your job to do, your troops to supervise, and now you do all the paperwork/computer work for everything as well.
 

hmcfadden02

PEB Forum Regular Member
#5
Has anyone done a comparison to other Service FPEB timelines. There may be an equity issue between SM's that can be raised that is far out of kilter. ARMY v Air Force v Navy/USMC? Just a thought that has probably already been considered.
 

Osiris

Registered Member
#6

I am posting this to update my previous thread on recent changes at the AF PEB.

There is a significant change to AF Formal PEB practice that should be noted. Previously, the practice at the AF FPEB was to bring members in on orders for a week. The first day was inprocessing/orientation and either a face to face meeting with AF assigned military counsel to discuss your case or a follow on appointment in the day or so after reporting in which to accomplish the same. Thereafter, the AF attorney would coordinate with the FPEB staff to set a date for the formal hearing. The additional days were, at that time, used to either get additional examination (often at Wilford Hall MTF) or to get additional evidence from whatever source. Due to the "tyranny of time" (which I will post about later, but have referenced before, which is the pressure on the PEBs to adjudicate cases faster), this practice is no longer the case.

Currently, members are being ordered to report, and to meet with their assigned counsel the same day. The FPEB hearings are being scheduled for the next day. Here is an excerpt from the reporting instructions in one of my client's cases (this is a standard instruction applicable to all AF members):

"1.Reporting to the FPEB: You must report to Randolph AFB, Bldg 663 at 0800 hours on the date indicated above. A map is attached for your use in finding the location. At that time you will be scheduled for an appointment with your assigned counsel. Your formal hearing will be the day after your reporting date, and you can expect to out-process on the 3rd duty day. "

What this indicates is that the time to prepare for the Formal PEB after meeting with assigned AF counsel is now extremely shortened. The point is to alert folks that if they are going to use AF assigned counsel, the preparation time is severely shortened from what the previous practice was before the AF FPEB. This means that prior to travel to Randolph AFB, you must prepare in advance and coordinate much earlier for consultation and preparation of your case with your counsel.

Overall, I think this is a bad thing for AF members. The push to "meet timelines" has resulted in less time for members to get a fair FPEB hearing. If you are in a short timeframe before your AF FPEB report date, you must coordinate as soon as possible with your assigned counsel in order to maximize your chances for success at the FPEB. In my opinion, this change is very bad for members and for the accuracy and fairness of outcomes.

The earlier thread can be found here: http://www.pebforum.com/site/threads/air-force-peb-update.20760/

I am posting this to update my previous thread on recent changes at the AF PEB.

There is a significant change to AF Formal PEB practice that should be noted. Previously, the practice at the AF FPEB was to bring members in on orders for a week. The first day was inprocessing/orientation and either a face to face meeting with AF assigned military counsel to discuss your case or a follow on appointment in the day or so after reporting in which to accomplish the same. Thereafter, the AF attorney would coordinate with the FPEB staff to set a date for the formal hearing. The additional days were, at that time, used to either get additional examination (often at Wilford Hall MTF) or to get additional evidence from whatever source. Due to the "tyranny of time" (which I will post about later, but have referenced before, which is the pressure on the PEBs to adjudicate cases faster), this practice is no longer the case.

Currently, members are being ordered to report, and to meet with their assigned counsel the same day. The FPEB hearings are being scheduled for the next day. Here is an excerpt from the reporting instructions in one of my client's cases (this is a standard instruction applicable to all AF members):

"1.Reporting to the FPEB: You must report to Randolph AFB, Bldg 663 at 0800 hours on the date indicated above. A map is attached for your use in finding the location. At that time you will be scheduled for an appointment with your assigned counsel. Your formal hearing will be the day after your reporting date, and you can expect to out-process on the 3rd duty day. "

What this indicates is that the time to prepare for the Formal PEB after meeting with assigned AF counsel is now extremely shortened. The point is to alert folks that if they are going to use AF assigned counsel, the preparation time is severely shortened from what the previous practice was before the AF FPEB. This means that prior to travel to Randolph AFB, you must prepare in advance and coordinate much earlier for consultation and preparation of your case with your counsel.

Overall, I think this is a bad thing for AF members. The push to "meet timelines" has resulted in less time for members to get a fair FPEB hearing. If you are in a short timeframe before your AF FPEB report date, you must coordinate as soon as possible with your assigned counsel in order to maximize your chances for success at the FPEB. In my opinion, this change is very bad for members and for the accuracy and fairness of outcomes.

The earlier thread can be found here: http://www.pebforum.com/site/threads/air-force-peb-update.20760/
 

Osiris

Registered Member
#7
I am an active duty airman with 11 years in. I suffered a significant heart attack late last year which led to congestive heart failure, a reduced EF @ 20% along with cardiogenic shock (kidneys and liver were malfunctioning). I had a stent placed but no other surgery. Since then, my liver and kidneys have reached full functionality (100%), my EF has risen to 31-32% (albeit it has slowed down) and my heart's overall functionality, according to my cardiologist, has improved significantly. I just started cardiac rehab 2 weeks ago. I am not ready to medically retire or separate despite the VA ratings/compensation. I could care less how much it is. I love the Air Force, everything it stands for and desperately wish to stay in. Do I have a shot, especially with the assistance of counsel? Naturally, due to the condition, I am facing a full MEB. Thanks for any suggestions/inputs
 

Jason Perry

Benevolent Leader
Site Founder
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#8
I am an active duty airman with 11 years in. I suffered a significant heart attack late last year which led to congestive heart failure, a reduced EF @ 20% along with cardiogenic shock (kidneys and liver were malfunctioning). I had a stent placed but no other surgery. Since then, my liver and kidneys have reached full functionality (100%), my EF has risen to 31-32% (albeit it has slowed down) and my heart's overall functionality, according to my cardiologist, has improved significantly. I just started cardiac rehab 2 weeks ago. I am not ready to medically retire or separate despite the VA ratings/compensation. I could care less how much it is. I love the Air Force, everything it stands for and desperately wish to stay in. Do I have a shot, especially with the assistance of counsel? Naturally, due to the condition, I am facing a full MEB. Thanks for any suggestions/inputs
Like everything, the particular facts of the case matter a lot in the outcome. I would not want to sugar coat it- from what I have read, it seems like an uphill battle. But, depending on your grade and AFSC, your ability to perform, your commander's input, and the prognosis and opinion of your doctors, it may be possible.

An example, I had a client a few years back who had epilepsy. Normally, that is a straight line to separation or retirement. But, all of the facts lined up in his favor- condition was well controlled, non-deployable (but critically undermanned) AFSC, strong support from chain of command, etc., and he was returned to duty. (I would not rely on this example as a reason to think you would definitely have same outcome if the facts are in your favor....also, I think you are seeing a difference in outcomes more recently due to post-war drawdown. PEBs should not be a force shaping tool. Whether conscious or not, though, I think it happens.

Hope all works out in your favor!