Ok, long story short, I was giving my son his medication (Adderall) and taking my medication and was not paying attention to what I was doing and ended up taking his instead of mine the day before my UA to go to UPL school. This happened the beginning of February and my unit was officially notified around the end of February/beginning of March. The MEB process had been started during that time and I was on Rear D. After I found out that Adderall was a narcotic, I notified my 1SG and told him what happened. He was not going to punish me, I was escorted to ASAP about a month and a half after official notification, the Article 15 to my knowledge was not started until about 2-3 months after official notification and chapter/separation paperwork was never initiated. The deployed unit returned around the end of May/beginning of June. I received my 1st reading in June and at the end of June I got my ratings back in which I accepted. I got 10% for my shoulder from the Army, 10% for shoulder, 30% for PTSD and 10% for ears from the VA. I was then told by the acting BDE CSM who was a 1SG to keep my ETS date on my orders and then take whatever leave I was going to take, this way it would give the unit who has UCMJ authority over me time to adjudicate it. Keep in mind, I have 2 flags, 1 counseling for this incident which I did not receive until after a month. Then, I go back to TDS and they tell me that I should get my 2nd reading in a few days, this was 3 weeks ago. I have been clearing, I final out on Tuesday (the 14th) my reading was supposed to be on the 8th, it was rescheduled to the day I sign out on leave because my wife wanted to be there but she could not because she was sick and she had to be at the house while our household goods were being packed. She tried to call the commander to tell him over the phone her character testimony and had to leave a message for him to call her back in which that did not happen. Now, I have no household goods, I clear my on post house Tuesday morning (14th) and I was asked why by my company commander who allowed me to clear. Also, they are saying they had no idea that I was clearing and that my leave form is unauthorized because it was signed by someone on Rear D (I have assumption of command orders). I have an appointment with a MEB Attorney on Monday but I also need my commander to sign a couple of papers so I can outprocess, I have cleared my training room already, I am being told that they cannot hold me for punishment because I am being medically discharged but I do not think it is true because I cannot find it anywhere in a regulation. Any help would be great, the command does not seem to care that my kids are with my in-laws who cannot take care of them for a long period, my wife has quite a few medical issues as she was medically discharged and not once did they tell me that it was not a good idea to have my household goods picked up but yet I am being told that they do not foresee my punishment being suspended. Also, when Rear D was handling it, they told me that if the Article 15 went through, they were going to recommend it be suspended. What Field Grade Article 15 for a positive urinalysis do you know that takes 5 months to adjudicate, especially when there is extenuating circumstances.
Article 15 Reading 4 days before final out and changed to the day after final out...
- Thread starter nate85
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My commander did not allow me to clear, he asked who allowed me to clear and there are extenuating circumstances and What Field Grade Article 15 for a positive urinalysis do you know that takes 5 months to adjudicate? Just wanted to clarify my horrible typing.
I'm sure others with more knowledge will chime in but I can tell you that Just because your in MEB doesn't mean you can't be punished under UMCJ
Actually few months ago before I retired I was assigned to WTB, and during a close out formation my 1SG gave us a heads up that 3 soldiers were being called back from terminal leave because of failed UA, so mind you they had already cleared the entire post, I'm not sure what actions were took after the fact
Actually few months ago before I retired I was assigned to WTB, and during a close out formation my 1SG gave us a heads up that 3 soldiers were being called back from terminal leave because of failed UA, so mind you they had already cleared the entire post, I'm not sure what actions were took after the fact
Soldiers who test positive for illicit drugs for the first time will be evaluated for dependency, disciplined, as appropriate, and processed for separation within 30 calendar days of the company commander receiving notification of the positive result from the ASAP in accordance with paragraph 10–6 of this regulation (the procedures in para 10–9a(1) of this regulation may also apply.) If the positive drug report is for a MRO-reviewable drug, all adverse administrative and legal actions will be suspended pending MRO determination that the use was not for legitimate medical purposes. All separation actions will be forwarded to the separation authority, who will make the final determination on separating the Soldier in accordance with AR 635–200. Retention should be reserved for Soldiers that show clear potential for both excellent future service to the Army and for remaining free from substance abuse. Soldiers diagnosed as drug dependent will be offered rehabilitation prior to separation.
I understand that I can be punished under UCMJ because I am still in the Army, however, the timeline of the Article 15 is not right. For instance, I pulled this reg from the ASAP regulation:
I understand that I can be punished under UCMJ because I am still in the Army, however, the timeline of the Article 15 is not right. For instance, I pulled this reg from the ASAP regulation:
Not only that, in the Flags, Bars Regulation it says that flags are to be removed once the Soldier is at the transition point, I am still flagged, it also says that seperate documents are required per 1 flag, only one document was submitted, and it says that i was to be counseled on why i was being flagged, how to get the flag removed and something else that I cannot remember, never got that counseling, and in the ASAP regulation it says that commanders are to ensure Soldiers are referred to ASAP within 5 duty days after official notification, the paperwork was incompletely filled out when my NCO received it a month and a half later, well past the 5 days.
What are you looking to do? It sounds like you are very well versed on the regulations. At this point you need to work with TDS, MEB Counsel, and maybe even hire a civilian attorney. With everything you have going on, getting sound legal advice is the only thing you should be concerned with.
Lawyer up!!
Joe
I just want to get out at this point. You know, I can understand that if they wanted to punish me when this happened because I am an NCO and I had a lack of situational awareness. However, it was a Rear D matter and they handled it, until the unit came back and decided they didn't like how they handled it. I do not want to request a court-martial because I do not want to stay in for another 3 to 6 months. I have been preparing to get out of the Army like I was told to, my kids are with my in-laws and we have to get there to finish the registration for their school and I have job interviews setup, my wife cannot drive by herself due to her back (she is pending a level 3 spinal fusion) and the medication she is on. The thing is, if I show these regulations at my Article 15 reading, the Commander could just ignore them, which I would appeal it and the start a Congressional on it but I don't want to go that route. The fact is, is that we do not have any household goods and I am 2 days away from clearing my on post house and they are not putting me up in a hotel, my wife asked my 1SG that. I brought all of this up to TDS and what I got from them is that they do not know the regulations. One of them told me he had never heard of the regulation that pulled from the ASAP AR. I do have an appointment with a MEB attorney tomorrow though, so hopefully he will be able to help me. Are these regulations that I am pulling grounds to have this thrown out so I can move on? Also, doesn't the timeline of the Article 15 go against due process?
I know this will sound harsh, but I will say it anyway. Now is the time to scrimp, scrape, and maybe not pay a few bills and use that money to hire an attorney. At least pay the initial consultation fee to find out if you have a leg to stand on. You are never going to feel like you get an honest answer from somebody employed by the Army. Even if they're right, you will still have doubts. You also should not risk everything on what could become bad advice.
Get a lawyer. Way too much in your future relies on a good transition and good result. If you don't do it, it could end up costing you way more in the long run trying to get it corrected. A good lawyer will know where to file, who to talk to and give you the best chance to put this to bed. If you continue to try and fight this yourself, you will get rolled over.
I called an attorney that was recommended to me last week and he told me that it was a waste of a Soldiers money to hire an attorney for an Article 15 and he doesn't take on those cases anymore. So basically, that is when I started to fight by myself. I was under the impression that they were siding with my Rear D 1SG who was going to recommend it be suspended if it came to that and I am thinking that they are against him and me now.
That is a very real possibility. The rear D commander can often become a target of a returning unit. Another really important reason to get with an attorney. One who cares. For some reason or other, the one you spoke to does not. If we ever get to the point he describes, we should just ditch the UCMJ all together, because the system will be broke beyond repair.
Anyway, call a few. Get some different perspectives and ideas. Go with your gut, and with the one who sounds like he has an idea of what is happening and what he will do. To me, this case sounds like it has a lot of procedural problems, and may be an easy one to fight with a memo from a lawyer to the right person (CG Legal Counsel). Anyway, don't give up after the first call
The IG basically gives a commander advice. They can not change an outcome, but their words can go a long way to sway a decision.