Continuing the fight (de-nuked ETC(SS) involuntarily adsep'd and indebted)

cjmclark

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
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Greetings, all.

I'm posting here to actually establish a separate thread regarding my situation, discussed in detail on this thread that I seem to have hijacked: http://www.pebforum.com/site/threads/rate-conversion-disapproved-separate-no-med-board.7065/

Disqualification and Separation
Long story short, I am an ETC(SS) (nuclear) who was disqualified from nuclear field duty following a diagnosis of and treatment for depression. After a year and a half of being LIMDU, being assignment limited and then worldwide deployable, and having finally been found fit for full duty, I was denied forced conversion and involuntarily separated under MILPERSMAN 1910-120 (COG Other Physical/Mental Condition). The medical officer would not recommend an MEB (and therefore a PEB) because I had been found fit for full duty. There were some issues surrounding the circumstances of my separation and the manner in which I was treated by NAVPERS during my LIMDU period and the subsequent disqualification/forced conversion process, but the IG complaint I filed proved ultimately fruitless.

Indebtedness and Loss of Separation Pay
As a result of my nuc disqual, I was directed to begin repayment of unearned portions of my last SRB totaling in excess of $55K. Under advice of my local PSD, I filed a request for waiver of indebtedness, a process that requires an extensive waiver package be routed through my local command, PSD, PERS-82, and ultimately to the SECNAV's office. When I brought up the fact that the DODFMR and my separation orders said that the debt should not be recouped, I was instructed to just let the waiver take its course. Because I was indebted at the time of separation, my involuntary separation pay, as well as all unpaid leave, pay, and allowances, were used to "pay down" my debt, denying me over $18K in payment (after taxes) that I should have received to ease the transition to civilian life.

Post-Separation Debt Payment and Waiver
While the waiver was in routing, I was required to continue paying on the debt. I was able to negotiate with DFAS a $300/mo payment, down from the $1,200/mo they initially billed me for post-separation. Unbeknownst to me, my waiver had stalled at the very first person at PERS-82 who received it, sitting in her email inbox for 8 months. I could not get her to respond to my emails or phone calls. When my US Representative's office contacted her, she finally contacted me claiming that she had never received it and asking me to send it again. My PSD contacted her, whereupon she realized that she did in fact have it and finally routed it up. A year and three months from when I originally routed it, I finally received a response saying that the unpaid portion of the debt (by this time around $33K) had been waived. While I was relieved to have the debt gone, I was still left without the $18K in pay and allowances to which I was entitled, as well as $4000 paid out of pocket ($2400 of which was paid while my waiver stagnated at PERS-82).

VA Disability Compensation
I am also waiting for my VA disability compensation request to be reviewed. I initially filed it in May 2012, with an estimated completion date of Nov. 2012 to Apr. 2013. It has remained stuck in the "Under Review" phase up to now, and was recently updated last week for a new estimated completion date of Sep. 2013 to Feb. 2014.

The Road Ahead
I have chosen to appeal to the Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Military Manpower and Personnel, who had previously waived the unpaid portion of the SRB recoupment debt wrongly assessed against me. Chief among my arguments is the fact that the DODFMR Vol. 7A Chapter 2 Table 2-1 Rule 3 (available here: http://comptroller.defense.gov/fmr/current/07a/07a_02.pdf) specifically states that members who are separated for non-disability medical reasons that disqualified them from the duty for which they re-enlisted should not have recoupment sought. Additionally, my involuntary separation orders specifically directed a stop payment (without recoup) of any remaining entitlements due to the no-fault nature of the disqualification. I will post back here if/when I hear back from him.

I am working with my US Senator's office to try to expedite the full remission of my debt. For any of you who may be in a similar situation to mine, I wholeheartedly suggest getting your Senators and Representatives on board. They can be very helpful when dealing with entities like DON and DFAS, often finding information that you yourself may have a hard time obtaining.

Though it has been a long and exhausting fight, I remain hopeful. I will keep you all up to date.

Carl
 
Got my reply today from the Deputy Assistant SECNAV:

"As responsible stewards of tax payer dollars and as a personnel policy, Navy has historically recouped all unearned portions of pays and benefits for members who are separated under medical conditions that are not considered disabilities and who failed to fulfill their bonus or special pay contract.

Based on a review of your last request, we determined requiring you to continue repaying the government would generate an undue hardship and, therefore, was against good equity and conscience. However, this decision in no way entitled you to be reimbursed for monies previously collected. Therefore, I deny your request for reimbursement of monies paid towards your indebtedness to the government.

Russell W. Beland
Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy
(Military Manpower and Personnel)"

I can't really think of any other options beyond giving up or taking legal action at this point. Bear in mind that my separation orders mandated that no money be recouped (a fact which I addressed in my letter to Mr. Beland but that he chose to ignore in his reply). Thoughts?
 
So, what condition were you separated for under MILPERSMAN?

*laughs* Well, that's the thing. I was involuntarily separated under MPM 1910-120 because I had been diagnosed with and treated for Major Recurring Depression, which disqualified me from the nuclear program (as I had to continue taking medication at the time). Even though I was being treated, the psychiatrist found me fit for full duty and worldwide deployable, because I was fully physically and mentally capable of doing pretty much any job out there. The involuntary separation came on the heels of my forced conversion package being disapproved (which is no real shocker, not a lot of chiefs get converted). Since there's no real "you're actually able to do any job but we don't have one for you right now" separation, they defaulted back to the Other Physical/Mental Conditions. And then kicked me to the curb, denied me the majority of my transition benefits (no terminal leave, no TAPS/SEPS, no involuntary separation pay), and indebted me to the tune of over $55,000.

I had already routed my waiver request like a good boy, but it sat at PERS-82 for 8 months without action before my US Representative's office was able to get them to communicate with me (all calls and emails beforehand went unanswered). If it hadn't sat there, Mr. Beland would have determined that it was "against good conscience" for me to keep paying 8 months earlier and I wouldn't have been out that $2400.

Sorry about the rant. Bottom line, I was separated for a medical condition (not servicemember's fault), and my separation orders specifically said to stop payments (without recoup) of any remaining entitlement. The Navy did great on the first part, not so great on the second. And according to Mr. Beland's letter, it is apparently the officially stated policy of the Navy to indebt sailors who are separated for "non-disability" medical conditions (how you can lose your job for a medical condition and not be considered "disabled" is beyond me, it would seem to be either/or), in the interests of "responsible steward[ship] of tax payer dollars".
 
You need an attorney. First thing I would do is focus on getting your discharge corrected...as this seems to be the the main problem. Obviously, if you were discharged due to medical condition without meb/peb, that is illegal.
 
You need an attorney. First thing I would do is focus on getting your discharge corrected...as this seems to be the the main problem. Obviously, if you were discharged due to medical condition without meb/peb, that is illegal.

I tried to get an MEB. The psychiatrist said he couldn't "in good conscience" send me to one because I was in fact fit for full duty - with medication, there was absolutely nothing (save regulations) preventing me from performing my duties.
 
That does not matter. Still, you should not have been admin sep for medical condition.
 
You still on the fight to get this corrected?? I know it has been awhile. I have some info that will help your case and also filing a BCNR and Federal Claims case now to correct what happened to me. There are instructions that even state that medication alone can cause you to be un-fit.
 
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