National Guard Dual Status Civilian Technicians

Vetinneed

Registered Member
#21
Vetinneed,


I am an ARNG Tech, I too kept quiet for years about my conditions even though I probably could have been collecting
VA comp all that time.. Didn't want to loose my job. Thank god I had medical documentation to back up my delayed claims.

I was on the other side of the coin, the PEB ruled my condition EPTS but Permanently aggravated by Service and gave me 30% for it since the VA had service connected it. It is easier to get a VA service connection then an approved LOD in most cases. But anything is possible as Daniel stated, the VA can deny something that has an LOD if the C&P examiner opines that it is not service connected. I filled out my SF3107 and SF3112 yesterday and sent it back for a good review by HRO. Also sent in other necessary Medical Documents and Marriage Certificate, have to go and have my wife sign the Spouse Consent form as I am not going to take the SBP on the Tech side, too expensive and not enough pay out. I was also told by the HRO Tech that I could apply for unemployment when I get my tech separation date, at this point they expect I should be done Technician by end of August or Beginning of September. Daniel, were you able to file for Unemployment? Not thinking it's for full benefit. I am sure the Technician will offset it some how.

Will try to keep this updated as I go.

Hi Jef,

So let me just make sure I'm clear on the process in a nutshell. Please correct me if I am wrong:

- The PEB eventually ruled that your condition was either service connected or in line of duty. So you are covered by the military for entitlement to either severance pay or retired pay based on being unfit

- The VA rated this unfit condition(s) at 30%.

- Therefore the Army has to accept the 30% and allow you to retire for this unfit condition, and you will draw retirement of 30% of base pay (assuming your percent of disability is greater than you retirement based on years of service)

- While the military side is processing your retirement the Civil Service (State HRO) side needs to submit paperwork to both the Social Security Administration and OPM to start your Civil Service Disability Retirement (60/40). Both organizations will deny you initially.

- Then State HRO will re-file your Civil Service Disability Retirement to OPM, but this time based on Public Law. It should be approved.

- Shortly you will be retired from the Army for disability and receive immediate (regardless of your age) retired pay based on 30% of your high 3 basic pay. This will be offset by the 30% you receive as disability compensation from the VA. And within a couple of months from your military retirement, you should be retired from civil service for public law disability and immediately begin receiving your 60/40.

- You may also then file for unemployment? Maybe you get it. Maybe you don't.

Am I right?
 

danieldresen

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#22
I had an LOD for my knee and sleep apnea, not crohns. The national guard only submitted crohns as my sole unfitting condition to a NDR PEB and screwed me over. The VA screwed me over out of 100% by saying sleep apnea, which I have an LOD for, is not service connected. NGB denied my LOD for crohns. Trust me when I say NGB did it, it was NGB. Well, them and my state surgeons office. As long as you are national guard, if the national guard unit fails to input you in IDES... you get fucked. Happens more often then one would want to think.
 

danieldresen

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#23
As for unemployment... some states do not factor in a disability pension as income for unemployment so you can draw both... like California.
 

JefeP

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#24
Vetinneed,

Yes, but I was also found unfit for a PTSD at 50% so I was granted PDRL at 70% Army. The 30% was for Asthma which I developed after burn pit exposure while still in theater, and was labeled EPTS by the PEB. They did admit that due to my burn pit exposure that it was permanently aggravated by service, so it still contributed to my overall DOD rating. I am retiring PDRL 70% with 50% CRSC and 80% VA. My VA offsets my 70% army but I get about 900.00 back from CRSC.

1. 70% of High 3 = 3700.00 Self Explanatory
2. 80% VA COMP = 1700.00 VA Compensation Monthly
3. Basic - VA = 2000.00 What you get from DOD after VA Offset
4. CRSC at 50% = 900.00 50% Combat Related Special Compensation - Use VA Rate chart to determine CRSC.
add up lines 2,3,4 = 4600.00 Monthly Total VA, DOD and CRSC combined.

This is just an example.... Not to the exact dollar as I don't want to air out my dirty laundry.

By what you wrote you do have a grasp of the general order in things. The only thing I would say is different from the way you described it is, you file for SSA Disability and provide your HRO with the receipt as part of the retirement process, they do not get involved in it, they just require that you apply.

Hope this helps.
 

Vetinneed

Registered Member
#25
Vetinneed,

Yes, but I was also found unfit for a PTSD at 50% so I was granted PDRL at 70% Army. The 30% was for Asthma which I developed after burn pit exposure while still in theater, and was labeled EPTS by the PEB. They did admit that due to my burn pit exposure that it was permanently aggravated by service, so it still contributed to my overall DOD rating. I am retiring PDRL 70% with 50% CRSC and 80% VA. My VA offsets my 70% army but I get about 900.00 back from CRSC.

1. 70% of High 3 = 3700.00 Self Explanatory
2. 80% VA COMP = 1700.00 VA Compensation Monthly
3. Basic - VA = 2000.00 What you get from DOD after VA Offset
4. CRSC at 50% = 900.00 50% Combat Related Special Compensation - Use VA Rate chart to determine CRSC.
add up lines 2,3,4 = 4600.00 Monthly Total VA, DOD and CRSC combined.

This is just an example.... Not to the exact dollar as I don't want to air out my dirty laundry.

By what you wrote you do have a grasp of the general order in things. The only thing I would say is different from the way you described it is, you file for SSA Disability and provide your HRO with the receipt as part of the retirement process, they do not get involved in it, they just require that you apply.

Hope this helps.
That does help much, thank you. And you said that none of the above compensation (military or VA) has any impact on you also receiving the public law disability retirement as a military technician right?
 

Vetinneed

Registered Member
#26
I had an LOD for my knee and sleep apnea, not crohns. The national guard only submitted crohns as my sole unfitting condition to a NDR PEB and screwed me over. The VA screwed me over out of 100% by saying sleep apnea, which I have an LOD for, is not service connected. NGB denied my LOD for crohns. Trust me when I say NGB did it, it was NGB. Well, them and my state surgeons office. As long as you are national guard, if the national guard unit fails to input you in IDES... you get fucked. Happens more often then one would want to think.
Thank you. You are right a lot of people in the Guard fear the IDES process because as Guardsmen we have to prove that a condition is duty related, and that we were in a duty status, and that it didn't exist prior to service. It almost feels like we are assume to be lying until we prove we are telling the truth. That is particularly disappointing because the Regular Component has almost any and every automatically assumed to be in the line of duty. So I know many people in the Reserve Component choose to simply "grin and bare" any injury, illness, sickness, or disease...even if it really is duty related or aggravated by mil duty. Especially true if they are military technicians because they will also lose their civil service job. Bad situation. Hopefully, there are more good people than bad who manage the IDES process and VA process. And hopefully the good ones are understanding of our unique situation. Sorry yours was not.
 
#27
Howdy I don't mean to hijack the thread but thought my story may be of interest for dual status folks.

I am a dual status Air Force Reserve. My timeline so far has been:

LOD approved Nov 14.
Dec 14 Condition identified as potentially unfitting by AFRC/SG. Made no points no pay at this time.
Jan 15 entered into IDES.
Feb 15 contacted by PEBLO.
May15 first C/P exams by VA.
Received my ART civilian appraisal with two of 8 critical areas- noted as (unable to perform due to medical condition) but they gave me a nice cash payment.
June 15 package sent to IPEB.
June 15 I applied for civil service disability retirement. MY HRO said they received all the needed info made their notes and submitted it to OPM. I included my AF medical exams and the VA CP exam in the package as they both state I cannot continue to be in my career field. PEBLO even wrote a letter saying I would be separated.

Now I am waiting on VA rating and OPM disability retirement and was told the IPEB takes about 120 days (so Oct15 ish)
 

Vetinneed

Registered Member
#28
Howdy I don't mean to hijack the thread but thought my story may be of interest for dual status folks.

I am a dual status Air Force Reserve. My timeline so far has been:

LOD approved Nov 14.
Dec 14 Condition identified as potentially unfitting by AFRC/SG. Made no points no pay at this time.
Jan 15 entered into IDES.
Feb 15 contacted by PEBLO.
May15 first C/P exams by VA.
Received my ART civilian appraisal with two of 8 critical areas- noted as (unable to perform due to medical condition) but they gave me a nice cash payment.
June 15 package sent to IPEB.
June 15 I applied for civil service disability retirement. MY HRO said they received all the needed info made their notes and submitted it to OPM. I included my AF medical exams and the VA CP exam in the package as they both state I cannot continue to be in my career field. PEBLO even wrote a letter saying I would be separated.

Now I am waiting on VA rating and OPM disability retirement and was told the IPEB takes about 120 days (so Oct15 ish)
Thanks for sharing. I have never heard of an HRO processing a military technician's disability retirement, due to public law, before the IDES process is complete. Did they process you as a regular civil service disability retirement or as a public law disability retirement? How did the C/P exams go? Do they give you any indication during the C/P exam as to what percentage they believe you will be rated at - or is that entirely someone else's decision in VA?
 
#29
Vetinned,

The HRO office said they had to certify they could not accommodate the condition then they would forward to OPM. They suggested getting in the line at OPM early and said they would forward the discharge order once received. Actually -I'm not sure what the public law statute is? other than the USC on dual status? Is their something unique to the disability application processing? I have posted my CP in this forum they consensus seems to be between 70-80%. My problem is PTSD and the meds required my job is aircrew flight instructor for aeromed evac crews.

Thanks for the advice
 

Vetinneed

Registered Member
#30
Vetinned,

The HRO office said they had to certify they could not accommodate the condition then they would forward to OPM. They suggested getting in the line at OPM early and said they would forward the discharge order once received. Actually -I'm not sure what the public law statute is? other than the USC on dual status? Is their something unique to the disability application processing? I have posted my CP in this forum they consensus seems to be between 70-80%. My problem is PTSD and the meds required my job is aircrew flight instructor for aeromed evac crews.

Thanks for the advice
The Public Law disability retirement is specifically for dual-status military technicians who loose their civil service job due to being disqualified for continued military service. So you lose your full-time job because you lost your military (national guard) membership due to medical reasons. It is a specific law that allows you to retire from civil service for disability and you start drawing retirement immediately. However your retirement is not based on your years of civil service. You receive 60% of your base pay for the first year and 40% thereafter until age 62 (then it is recomputed). It allows you to retire for conditions that OPM would not normally consider a "disability," because it is a disability from a military perspective. It is only for dual-status personnel due to our unique situation for military affiliation. I don't know exactly what the citation is for the law. I'm sure it is in a US Code of Fed Regulation.
 

JefeP

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#31
Sorry I took a weekend sabbatical,

Vetinneed,

No, no effect on your Public Law Dual Status Retirement at all.

Airevacdinosaur,

No problem with chiming in that is why I created this thread, so we could share our experiences on this process, for us it is part of the retirement process.

As for Public Law, it refers to Public Law 97-253. I have attached a word document that explains the Public law along with everything you are entitled to falling under 97-253.

Regards,
 

Attachments

JefeP

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#32
Submission of Technician Retirement Packet this morning, I was told about 6 weeks is the norm for the initial notice to be returned. I expect to be out before Labor day.
 

JefeP

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#34
Yes that is for Denial of Regular Disability Retirement. Once that happens they then approve it under public law 97-253 usually within a few days.
 

brooke0227

Registered Member
#35
My husband is also a tech but we are having horrible luck with the whole retirement proccess.
Oct 2013- VA rated 80% for PTSD and TBI
April 2014- hospitalzed for PTSD Psychosis
Oct 2014- finally the commander sent in for MEB
Feb 2015- LOD
Called caseworker last week and was told that his packet was put into the big armys system (Im guessing that is IDES)
Pyschiatrist wants him to file for disability retirement now and not wait on the military to process him out. His symptoms are just getting worse and the amount of medications he is on is ridiculous. We feel like we are getting nowhere! He is up for his VA re-evaluation next month. If anyone knows of anything we can do or anyone we can contact to get things rolling please let me know.
 

vet74

Registered Member
#37
Maybe someone can help me with some advice. So I am an Army Dual Status Mil Tech. Getting out with 40% Medical Disability.

They told me on my technician side they will afford me 60/40 meaning 60% of my base pay the first year and 40% every year after that.

I am not able to earn 80% above my high-3 years salary or my disability goes away. Does this include rental income if I own rental property and dividend income from stock investments?

Or does this only pertain to jobs that have a W-2?

What happens if 1-year I cash out stock and it pays me say $100,000 in gains that year. Does that mean my disability is gone as well?

Does this count income from the spouse as well or just my income?

Just trying to get a handle on how this works.

Thanks
 

SSG Birm

Registered Member
#38
Hello all,

I have a situation that I am trying to figure out. I was medically discharged from the Army National Guard Dec 31st of 2016. I am dual status Tech. I didn't get a chance to even talk with the HR until April of 17. OPM just recieved all of my packet in June. I called and asked my status and was told that it could take up to a year before I get a decision. I thought this was supposed to be quicker than that? I have seen people be retired medically from the tech part within 6 months of separating from the Guard. I read something about the Public Law in this forum, how can I get the ball rolling on all of this?
 

macjac69

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#39
Hello all,

I have a situation that I am trying to figure out. I was medically discharged from the Army National Guard Dec 31st of 2016. I am dual status Tech. I didn't get a chance to even talk with the HR until April of 17. OPM just recieved all of my packet in June. I called and asked my status and was told that it could take up to a year before I get a decision. I thought this was supposed to be quicker than that? I have seen people be retired medically from the tech part within 6 months of separating from the Guard. I read something about the Public Law in this forum, how can I get the ball rolling on all of this?
OPM is at a backlog processing packets. Up to 1 yr.. Yes 1 year. I'm at the beginning of the process and my co worker has been waiting since May. He was told it could possibly come thru around Nov-Dec timeframe.
 

Jerbart

Registered Member
#40
I'm dual status tech also, and I believe in understand the majority of the process - the only part I'm having trouble with is understanding the PDRL bit. I have asthma, and like others above, I hid it for years so I wouldn't lose my technician job. Because of that, I don't feel there is any way for me to service connect it (although you would think over two decades as a jet mechanic would make it kind of a given).

I'm probably going to get separated over it, now that I finally had to bring it up - but does that mean I'm not going to get any kind of medical retirement for it? I'm on Singulair and Breo daily for it, as well as carrying a rescue inhaler, which seems to me would make it the definition of a 30% disability - and if that's indeed the reason they get rid of me, would I not then be entitled to 30% PDRL? (21+ years and about 3600 retirement points, if that matters).
 
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