No MEB?

Ripley

Well-Known Member
Registered Member
Hello there. I'm a long time reader, first time poster. I've come to a perplexing point in my career and I'm hoping someone here can provide some insight.

Here's the breakdown:

Duty History:
Currently AGR Major, UAV Senior Pilot, Active Flight Status
Commissioned 1999
Active Duty 1999-2015
Years of Service: 16+
AGR 2015-Present (no breaks in service)
Aircraft Flown: T-37, T-38, AT-38, F-16, F-117, RQ-170, MQ-1

Currently DNIF, with no prospects of returning to flight status in the next year.

Medical History:
2009 - Neck injury flying F-16 (flight medicine documented)
2013 - C6/C7 Anterior Cervical Disc Fusion w/ Hardware
2015 - C6/C7 Posterior Laminectomy, Foraminotomy
2015 - L4/L5 Posterior Laminectomy, Foraminotomy
2015 - Diagnosed with Psoriatic Arthritis (spondylitis arthritis)
2016 - Scheduled for L5/S1 Anterior Lumbar Intervertebral Fusion w/Hardware
2016 - Scheduled for L5/S1 Posterior Foraminotomy

Cumulative time on convalescent leave: 9 months (3-6 more expected after next surgeries)
Medical Profile for PT test: Waist measurement only
Waivers: 2009 - Limited to Non-Ejection Seat Aircraft Only.

I have been battling with Severe Degenerative Disc Disease for many years. I now know that this is caused by Psoriatic Arthritis. A minimum of two more surgeries will be required to repair my collapsed L5/S1 disc. Throughout the process, I have never been referred to an MEB and I was accepted into the ANG as an AGR with the condition that I had and established waiver, which I did.

After reading the forums religiously, and discussing my case with a pilot in my Wing that was medically retired at 70% after having one of the surgeries I had, I am perplexed.

I cannot promote or move to another non-flying AGR job because I would not pass the 1st question in the HRO process regarding health. I am assigned to and active duty flight doctor because my unit is located on an AD base. The flight doctors have told me I should just "hang out' until I retire. They do not understand that I'm unable to move jobs easily like AD, nor do I want to spend the next three years "hanging out". My leadership has been terrific and patient with regards to taking care of my health needs. They are not pushing the issue of MEB with flight medicine.

My Questions:
1) Should I have already been sent to an MEB? (by regulation, I believe so)
2) Am I being set up for a hard fall when they finally decide to boot me out? Why the MEB delay?
3) Should I contact the MEB lawyers at Randolph?

I feel like I'm drifting in no-man's-land with no clear direction on where this is all going.

Thank you in advance,

Bandit
 
Please realize that if you make it to 20 years active duty you will be able to collect CRDP which could mean thousands more a month in pay.

Mike
 
Ripley,

Sorry to hear of your health problems and the issues you are facing. As always, the entirety of your facts and circumstances, including what is written in your case file, will be determinative of your outcome. That said, here is my take on you questions.

1) Should I have already been sent to an MEB? (by regulation, I believe so)
Sounds like it.

One issue may be the "impact on duty performance" issue. Are you currently performing UVA pilot duties? If not, what is your current billet/job?

2) Am I being set up for a hard fall when they finally decide to boot me out? Why the MEB delay?
Given that your flight doc seems content to not initiate an MEB and there does not seem to be any "push" to do so, I am not sure that you will be sent to an MEB. Would need more facts to understand the likelihood of the MEB being initiated. Do you have a current AF Form 469? If so, is it deployment or duty limiting? Has the DAWG looked at your case? Have you had a RILO and/or are you scheduled for one?

Not sure about a "hard fall." If you are indeed unfit, the next question would be as to your ratings. Again, would need more info to advise.

3) Should I contact the MEB lawyers at Randolph?

Not saying that you should not, just not sure what they could do for you at this point.

2009 - Neck injury flying F-16 (flight medicine documented)
This suggests to me at least the possibility of a CRSC finding. The basic facts as written suggest this as a possibility. However, the time lag since that event may work against and CRSC finding. (Also, note what Mike Parker wrote above about 20 years and CRDP). Outcome wise, you want at least one or the other of these concurrent receipt programs to apply to you.

Waivers: 2009 - Limited to Non-Ejection Seat Aircraft Only.
Again, this suggests the injury back in 2009 as being duty limited (but, waived). Given the previous quote about your neck injury flying in the F-16 in 2009, this suggests that injury as the cause of your disabilities. There may be issues with later degeneration and, as you mentioned, some issue with Psoriatic Arthritis.

There appears to be a lot of "moving parts" and issues with your case.
 
Thank you for the reply.

Jason,

Here's some more info on your questions:

1) Although I'm a UAV operator, the AF regulations do not distinguish between man/unmanned flight. They have recently (Aug 2015) allowed the sensor operators to have a lower medical, but not pilots. If I'm not capable of manned flight, they DNIF me. I have fought this very hard, but it's way above me on the politics scale. So that puts me in an AGR Pilot job, without being allowed to fly with my current condition. Trust me, I'm furious with this policy. This is the best job I've had in the military with direct combat results, and I'm not allowed to sit in a chair on the ground an fly a UAV.

2) I have am on a PT restriction only. No RILO. The DAWG has reviewed my case, and have determined that they will just wait until further surgeries to make a decision. The head of flight medicine has put in my records that I should meet and MEB, but he has not pushed for it.

3) I'm not sure the lawyers could/would even be able to help me out. I'm just looking for an education and they probably see more of this than anyone else. I figure it can't hurt to call.

4) The injury was well documented, but I was serving in Korea for three years and medical diagnostics at the level I needed weren't readily available. The pain and constant problems are documented for years after... and treated heavily with ibuprofen. I was finally referred to a spine surgeon after losing control of both arms. Thankfully, I regained most of the feeling after the first surgery.

5) The neck injury and subsequent compression of my spine have absolutely caused the issues I have. Psoriatic Arthritis doesn't help. It just sped up the arthritic problems from the injury.

I will need to do some research on the CRDP vs CRSC. I've had someone explain it to me before, but it seemed like a bit of voodoo math to me.

I keep pressing the flight docs with one question: Will you let me fly? The answer so far has been no.

Thank you again.

Ripley
 
Thank you for the reply.

Jason,

Here's some more info on your questions:

1) Although I'm a UAV operator, the AF regulations do not distinguish between man/unmanned flight. They have recently (Aug 2015) allowed the sensor operators to have a lower medical, but not pilots. If I'm not capable of manned flight, they DNIF me. I have fought this very hard, but it's way above me on the politics scale. So that puts me in an AGR Pilot job, without being allowed to fly with my current condition. Trust me, I'm furious with this policy. This is the best job I've had in the military with direct combat results, and I'm not allowed to sit in a chair on the ground an fly a UAV.

2) I have am on a PT restriction only. No RILO. The DAWG has reviewed my case, and have determined that they will just wait until further surgeries to make a decision. The head of flight medicine has put in my records that I should meet and MEB, but he has not pushed for it.

3) I'm not sure the lawyers could/would even be able to help me out. I'm just looking for an education and they probably see more of this than anyone else. I figure it can't hurt to call.

4) The injury was well documented, but I was serving in Korea for three years and medical diagnostics at the level I needed weren't readily available. The pain and constant problems are documented for years after... and treated heavily with ibuprofen. I was finally referred to a spine surgeon after losing control of both arms. Thankfully, I regained most of the feeling after the first surgery.

5) The neck injury and subsequent compression of my spine have absolutely caused the issues I have. Psoriatic Arthritis doesn't help. It just sped up the arthritic problems from the injury.

I will need to do some research on the CRDP vs CRSC. I've had someone explain it to me before, but it seemed like a bit of voodoo math to me.

I keep pressing the flight docs with one question: Will you let me fly? The answer so far has been no.

Thank you again.

Ripley

Ripley-

Your condition is obviously much more severe than mine. I have no idea why you have not been referred for MEB processing already, because it all appears pretty cut and dry to me. You can't perform your duties of your AFSC, you're not worldwide deployable, and you can't pass a PT test. I feel your leadership could take a more active role and push this rope a little more than they are.

While you are assigned as an AGR to the Active Duty flight docs, the Guard still "owns" you. You may have a path to an MEB via the ANG Flight Docs, but again your leadership needs to get involved and help make this happen. Perhaps a "bro" level call from one of the ANG docs over to the AD docs may clear this up as well.

I can see the AD Flight Docs "kicking the can down the road" with regards to the MEB. They may have an excuse not to refer you for disability processing as long as their is some type of treatment going on. They may claim that surgery may "fix" you enough to get back on flying status. Perhaps it might take some correspondence from your treating physician (i.e., whomever you've been seeing for surgery, meds, shots, etc) and the Flight Docs to properly articulate why you may never get back on flying status. Otherwise, you may be fighting an uphill battle until there your situation becomes "stable", meaning no further treatments on the horizon or someone is willing to officially give a long-term outlook that either supports a waiver/return to flying status or referral to an MEB.

Speaking of flying status, have you looked at your situation and the Aircrew Waiver Guide (AFD 130118-045), AFI 48-123, and the Medical Standards Guide? There is a lot of stuff to go through, but you should get to know these very well so that you have ammunition when you approach your Commander and/or the Flight Docs. I know my own situation and how it affected me, but since you're RPA and AGR your situation could be completely different from mine.

A couple of little nuggets to think about:

Your Flight Docs telling you to wait it out until a 20-year retirement is selling you out, to be honest. Your 20-year will get you 50% of your pay, taxed. If you go through the MEB (IDES) process and get over 50% of rating for your unfitting conditions, you're going to be getting more in compensation than you would have gotten with a regular retirement. If your unfitting conditions are tied to your time in the F-16, then (whether you get CRSC or not) your compensation would not be taxable. I agree with you.....they don't understand how the Guard/Reserves work and that you might not even be AGR for the next 4 years. Nothing is guaranteed in the Guard when it comes to Active Duty orders long-term.

What maparker is talking about with CRDP is that with a 20-year retirement, you would be able to simultaneously collect your retirement pay and VA benefits. Normally, your DoD retirement is reduced by the amount of your VA benefits, with the VA part being nontaxable. In your situation, none of your compensation should be taxable, anyways. CRSC is another means to get your full DoD retirement as well as the VA pay, but you would have to apply for it and be awarded it. I went through the process and was awarded CRSC, but it did not get me anything because I only had 11 years worth of active duty points for retirement. You may actually get something out of CRSC because of your active time.

Jason Perry's comment about the Office Of Airmen's Counsel at Randolph not being able to help is valid. They told me at the beginning that they couldn't help me until I was referred for MEB processing. Once I was in the system, they were very beneficial. Speaking of which, you may consider using Mr. Perry's services. He has also been invaluable in helping me through this process, especially very early on.

I think you should apply immediately for VA benefits, that way you are in line to be evaluated by the VA if you are not ultimately put into the MEB (IDES) process. It could take a long time (upwards of a year) to get an appointment at the VA to get looked at. You won't draw benefits while you are AGR, but they will kick in the moment you retire.

Your situation makes my blood boil! I hope that myself and others on here are able to help you out. I can only imagine the physical and mental suffering you've been through (and may continue to go through for the rest of your life). I really hope that this works out for you, but hopes don't get results. You're in the right place online to find out a lot of info on how others have done and what AFIs/regs to research. My single best piece of advice is to arm yourself with knowledge; know your situation, know the regs, and be ready to squash WOMs and misinformation that everyone seems to have with regards to what is true vs. what is heresay.

Chuckie
 
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