Promotion upon medical discharge

robmyers1986

Registered Member
#42
Okay, I have read the AR 600-8-19 and I am Blue in the face talking to the IG. I am a 28 year ARNG Soldier in the MEB Process since 08/2014. I made the Promotion List to MSG in TY2015. I have not made the list in TY 2016, TY2017.
My interpretation of the regulation is I should still be in a promotable status because I cannot loose my promotable status solely because the list expired or a vacancy does not exist.

No where in the regulation does it state that you must compete fro promotion every year after you were entered into the MEB. This is my reasoning, The Super Boards use Current APFT Scores to determine Cutt Offs for selection, those whom just make standard receives less points than those who exceed / far exceed standards. Thus you lose promotion potential if you do not achieve the minimum score of 18.

Am I correct ?
 

mrando69

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#43
They can't keep you off the list solely for being in DES. While you are in DES, since you cannot take a PT test or do weapons qual, they are supposed to use your scores from your last good ones. However, if you were non-recommended for promotion, then you should have received counseling as to why you were not recommended. That came up for me last year. My chain counseled me saying that they weren't recommending me since I was in the MEB process and didn't have a good PT test. I check the reg and then made a call to IG and my chain corrected their mistake the next day. I ended up getting promoted earlier this year.
 

tony292

PEB Forum Veteran
#44
It's not in the regulation, it's in title 10 USC. I was a CPT in promotable status and was promoted to MAJ upon medical retirement, many more on this board have been promoted too.
 

AllenS

Registered Member
#45
hmm, so there is a new MILPER message about this!

Here is the text portion.

ENLISTED PROMOTION CLARIFICATION FOR SOLDIERS IN THE DISABILITY EVALUATION SYSTEM / AR 600-8-19, PARAGRAPH 1-20
...Issued: [18 Apr 13]...



A. ARMY REGULATION 600-8-19, ENLISTED PROMOTIONS AND REDUCTIONS, DATED 30 APR 10, RAR 27 DEC 11.


1. THIS MESSAGE NUMBER WILL EXPIRE WHEN SUPERSEDED OR RESCINDED. THIS INFORMATION WILL BE INCLUDED IN THE NEXT ITERATION OF AR 600-8-19.


2. THIS MESSAGE APPLIES TO AR 600-8-19, CHAPTER ONE, PARAGRAPH 1-20, PROMOTION OF SOLDIERS PENDING REFERRAL TO A MILITARY OCCUPATIONAL SPECIALTY MEDICAL RETENTION BOARD, MEDICAL EVALUATION BOARD, OR PHYSICAL EVALUATION BOARD. UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED, THE BELOW INFORMATION APPLIES TO ALL SOLDIERS.


3. AR 600-8-19, CHAPTER 1, PARAGRAPH 1-20 AS CURRENTLY WRITTEN IS CLARIFIED AS FOLLOWS:

A. SOLDIERS IN THE DISABILITY EVALUATION SYSTEM (DES) WHO ARE PENDING A MEDICAL FITNESS DETERMINATION REFERRAL TO A MEDICAL EVALUATION BOARD (MEB) UNDER AR 40–400, OR PHYSICAL EVALUATION BOARD (PEB) UNDER AR 635–40) REMAIN OTHERWISE ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION CONSIDERATION, SELECTION, AND PIN-ON. THE ISSUANCE OF A PERMANENT PROFILE OF “3” OR “4” ALONE WILL NOT BE USED AS THE SOLE BASIS FOR DETERMINING PRIMARY MILITARY OCCUPATIONAL SPECIALTY (PMOS) DISQUALIFICATION. RESERVE COMPONENT SOLDIERS IN THE DES WILL NOT LOSE PROMOTABLE STATUS SOLELY BECAUSE A PROMOTION LIST EXPIRES PRIOR TO A VACANCY FOR PROMOTION BECOMING AVAILABLE.

B. SOLDIERS PREVIOUSLY CONDITIONALLY PROMOTED WHO ARE UNABLE TO MEET THE CONDITION OF THEIR PROMOTION AS A RESULT IN A FINDING OF UNFIT BY DES WILL NOT BE SUBJECT TO ADMINISTRATIVE REDUCTION (PROVIDED OTHERWISE QUALIFIED IAW THIS PARAGRAPH AND PARAGRAPH 1-10)TO RETAIN PROMOTABLE STATUS.

C. WHILE IN THE DES, SOLDIERS WILL NOT BE REQUIRED TO MAINTAIN THEIR APFT OR WEAPONS QUALIFICATION FOR PROMOTION PURPOSES. FOR SEMI-CENTRALIZED PROMOTION CONSIDERATION, SELECTION, AND PIN-ON, SOLDIERS WITHIN THE DES WHO ARE UNABLE TO PERFORM AN APFT OR QUALIFY WITH A WEAPON WILL USE THEIR LAST SCORE UNTIL THEY ARE MEDICALLY CLEARED TO TAKE THE APFT OR QUALIFY WITH A WEAPON. SOLDIERS WITHIN THE DES DUE TO COMBAT-RELATED OPERATIONS WHO FAILED TO QUALIFY WITH A WEAPON OR FAILED THEIR LAST APFT WILL BE GRANTED THE MINIMUM QUALIFYING SCORE.

D. WHILE IN THE DES, SOLDIERS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO MEET THE 12 MONTH SERVICE REMAINING REQUIREMENT FOR PROMOTION TO STAFF SERGEANT (SSG).

E. PER THE PROVISIONS OF 10 USC 1372, SOLDIERS ON A PROMOTION LIST WHO ARE RETIRED FOR PHYSICAL DISABILITY (10 USCS 1201 OR 1204) OR WHO ARE PLACED ON THE TEMPORARY DISABILITY RETIRED LIST (TDRL) (10 USCS 1202 OR 1205) AT THE TIME OF RETIREMENT FOR DISABILITY WILL BE RETIRED FOR DISABILITY AT THE PROMOTION LIST GRADE. THE SOLDIER WILL BE PROMOTED TO THE DESIGNATED GRADE EFFECTIVE THE DAY BEFORE PLACEMENT ON THE RETIRED LIST OR TDRL REGARDLESS OF CUT-OFF SCORES, SEQUENCE NUMBERS, OR POSITION AVAILABILITY. IN ALL CASES, THE SOLDIER MUST OTHERWISE BE FULLY ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION IN ACCORDANCE WITH PARAGRAPH 1-10. FORWARD A COPY OF THE PROMOTION AND RETIREMENT ORDERS TEN (10) DAYS PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF PROMOTION/RETIREMENT TO THE FOLLOWING EMAIL ADDRESS, [email protected] FOR INCLUSION INTO THE TOTAL ARMY PERSONNEL DATA BASE (TAPDB).

F. PER THE PROVISIONS OF 10 USC 1212, SOLDIERS WHO ARE ON A PROMOTION LIST AT THE TIME OF SEPARATION FOR DISABILITY WITH ENTITLEMENT TO DISABILITY SEVERANCE PAY WILL BE PAID SUCH COMPENSATION AT THE PROMOTION LIST GRADE. FURTHER, THE SOLDIER WILL BE PROMOTED TO THE DESIGNATED GRADE EFFECTIVE THE SOLDIERS SEPARATION DATE. FORWARD A COPY OF THE PROMOTION AND SEPARATION ORDERS TEN (10) DAYS PRIOR TO THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF PROMOTION/SEPARATION TO THE FOLLOWING EMAIL ADDRESS, [email protected] FOR INCLUSION INTO TAPDB.

G. THE GUIDANCE AT PARAGRAPH 3E AND 3F ALSO PERTAINS TO ACTIVE ARMY SOLDIERS WHO HAVE REACHED THE TIME-IN-SERVICE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE NEXT LEVEL OF AUTOMATIC PROMOTION (PV2 TO SPC).

H. SOLDIERS DETERMINED UNFIT BY THE PHYSICAL DISABILITY EVALUATION SYSTEM (PDES) BUT APPROVED FOR CONTINUATION ON ACTIVE DUTY (COAD) OR CONTINUATION OF RESERVE DUTY (COAR) UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF AR 635–40, CHAPTER 6, ARE OTHERWISE ELIGIBLE FOR PROMOTION DURING THE CONTINUATION ON ACTIVE DUTY PERIOD.

I. SOLDIERS PENDING MEDICAL RETENTION DECISION OR MEDICAL SEPARATION WILL NOT BE REMOVED FROM A PROMOTION LIST UNTIL PROMOTED OR UNTIL AFTER BEING DETERMINED FIT FOR DUTY AND AFFORDED 180 DAYS TO RETAIN PROMOTION ELIGIBILITY, PROVIDED THEY ARE OTHERWISE ELIGIBLE IAW THIS PARAGRAPH AND PARAGRAPH 1-10.
Isn't every SSG thar meets TIG TIS rewuirements promotables because tbey are on the list, even though they may not be selected? There's 2 list, eligible and selected list. I'm on the eligible list and will be retired before the list comes out.
 

GIsssJoe

Registered Member
#46
I have medically retired in 2014 as a SPC (E4). I've went to WLC and have all the promotion points, TIG, and TIS but I did not get my automatic promotion upon Medboard Retirement. Is there anything I can do to get my SGT promotion? Thank you in advance for some answers.
 

Unicorn

Registered Member
#47
Ok so if any of you have done this please lmk how, legal is saying no. I'm a SSG(P) with sequence number, however my SLC date is April. Will I retire as a SFC or do I need SLC to be "qualified".
1. Who do I need to talk to get get promotion on last day if eligible?
2. What verbiage do I need to know? Legal is using best guess. I want the SME.
 
#48
If you are Army, email a copy of the list to your TRANSPOC point of contact. This will be the very last 90 days and happen after the peb. Don't try to contact them sooner as they wont deal with you until the peb is complete.

I emailed them a copy of my MAJ list and I was promoted. It was a pretty easy process.
I'm in this exact position. Does your DD214 and ID say major? Did you pin prior to getting out?
 

tony292

PEB Forum Veteran
#49
My retirement orders and retired ID card and dd-214 say Major. I sent a copy of the promotion list with my name on it to transpoc and they didn't do promotion orders,just retirement orders at Major.

My date of rank was my last day of active duty.
 
#50
My retirement orders and retired ID card and dd-214 say Major. I sent a copy of the promotion list with my name on it to transpoc and they didn't do promotion orders,just retirement orders at Major.

My date of rank was my last day of active duty.
Where were you out of? I'm at Campbell and the email I got back seems to state I have wait until I'm out and then get an amended DD214 to change it to say MAJ. I'll talk to him more tomorrow.
 

tony292

PEB Forum Veteran
#51
I was ROTC in Nebraska and out processed the Army through Ft Riley. Did the person emailing you work for TRANSPOC or retirement services office? These are the people who will begin the process after you sign your 199, the PEBLO will release you to them.

They should be familiar with this, if not then copy and paste title 10 US Code section 1372.
 

tony292

PEB Forum Veteran
#52
10 U.S. Code § 1372 - Grade on retirement for physical disability: members of armed forces
US Code
Notes
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Unless entitled to a higher retired grade under some other provision of law, any member of an armed force who is retired for physical disability under section 1201 or 1204 of this title, or whose name is placed on the temporary disability retired list under section 1202 or 1205 of this title, is entitled to the grade equivalent to the highest of the following:
(1) The grade or rank in which he is serving on the date when his name is placed on the temporary disability retired list or, if his name was not carried on that list, on the date when he is retired.
(2) The highest temporary grade or rank in which he served satisfactorily, as determined by the Secretary of the armed force from which he is retired.
(3) The permanent regular or reserve grade to which he would have been promoted had it not been for the physical disability for which he is retired and which was found to exist as a result of a physical examination.
(4) The temporary grade to which he would have been promoted had it not been for the physical disability for which he is retired, if eligibility for that promotion was required to be based on cumulative years of service or years of service in grade and the disability was discovered as a result of a physical examination.
(Aug. 10, 1956, ch. 1041, 70A Stat. 105; Pub. L. 104–201, div. A, title V, § 577, Sept. 23, 1996, 110 Stat. 2536.)
 

Ocean

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#54
Hi Tony,
I have a ? for u. I was medically retired out of FT Lewis...My name came up for DA promotion list to MAJ ( as you). I submitted my paperwork and was s lectern but the select list was not released until after I was retired....any thoughts?
 

Ocean

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#55
Sorry Tony this is Ocean....meant to say the DA select list was not put out until after I was medically retired, but I was selected and my name was on it ....any thoughts....
 

betur6

PEB Forum Regular Member
#56
I know this is time late to the discussion, but I just came across it and am curious how it may translate for me as a medically retired Navy Chief. Within a month of my eligibility for Senior Chief I was injured in Kabul and sent to NMCSD Balboa where I spent the next 4.5 years on MEDHOLD. My command however was based in Hawaii.
I understand the reasoning behind the Navy putting advancement on hold until a members' PEB decides if they are staying or going out on TDRL or given severence, but is there any guidance/precedence on an extenuating case like mine where I ended up on MEDHOLD so long and ultimately in that rank for 8 years while on active duty prior to TDRL despite being the 001 selection when I put initially put on E-7? People who I was selected to Chief ahead of made Master Chief(E-9) before I went on TDRL.
I am 100% T&P and don't collect pay from the DOD because my disibility is greater. I would simply believe I earned the next rank even as I served as the senior enlisted advisor of my command as a CPO up until I was injured. I'm not looking for pay benefits.
I just read today that the Commandant of the Marine Corps James Jones had given Lee Ermey the honorary rank of "Gunnery Sergeant" nearly 30 yrs after he was medically retired as an E-6 and he wasn't injured in combat.
Also, shouldn't I also be eligible for CRSC since I was in combat and being paid combat pay the day I was injured? My PEB ppwk does not reflect it despite all of my medical records confirming my injury occurred in a combat zone.
Thanks in advance for your time in response.
 

Unicorn

Registered Member
#57
I know this is time late to the discussion, but I just came across it and am curious how it may translate for me as a medically retired Navy Chief. Within a month of my eligibility for Senior Chief I was injured in Kabul and sent to NMCSD Balboa where I spent the next 4.5 years on MEDHOLD. My command however was based in Hawaii.
I understand the reasoning behind the Navy putting advancement on hold until a members' PEB decides if they are staying or going out on TDRL or given severence, but is there any guidance/precedence on an extenuating case like mine where I ended up on MEDHOLD so long and ultimately in that rank for 8 years while on active duty prior to TDRL despite being the 001 selection when I put initially put on E-7? People who I was selected to Chief ahead of made Master Chief(E-9) before I went on TDRL.
I am 100% T&P and don't collect pay from the DOD because my disibility is greater. I would simply believe I earned the next rank even as I served as the senior enlisted advisor of my command as a CPO up until I was injured. I'm not looking for pay benefits.
I just read today that the Commandant of the Marine Corps James Jones had given Lee Ermey the honorary rank of "Gunnery Sergeant" nearly 30 yrs after he was medically retired as an E-6 and he wasn't injured in combat.
Also, shouldn't I also be eligible for CRSC since I was in combat and being paid combat pay the day I was injured? My PEB ppwk does not reflect it despite all of my medical records confirming my injury occurred in a combat zone.
Thanks in advance for your time in response.

Ok in order to receive the next rank you must have been "promotable" and be on a selection list. CRSC you must have combat codes on your PEB memo or be able to prove the injury occurred in the line of combat duty or directly related to it. Simply hurting yourself in country does not qualify. The example is if you roll you ankle in country it doesn't count. If a truck rolls over your ankle then it does. Back to promotion, you shouldn't have allowed them to keep you so long on hold, "shit of get off the pot". Secondly if you can produce a selection list to transitions they Can/may request your promotion orders dated the last day on AD.
Lastly ask yourself if you've really earned it CRSC if for purple hearts and injuries sustained either training for or fight war. Simply being deployed doesn't mean you earned it. It the 4.5 years you should of researched all this.
 

betur6

PEB Forum Regular Member
#58
Ok in order to receive the next rank you must have been "promotable" and be on a selection list. CRSC you must have combat codes on your PEB memo or be able to prove the injury occurred in the line of combat duty or directly related to it. Simply hurting yourself in country does not qualify. The example is if you roll you ankle in country it doesn't count. If a truck rolls over your ankle then it does. Back to promotion, you shouldn't have allowed them to keep you so long on hold, "shit of get off the pot". Secondly if you can produce a selection list to transitions they Can/may request your promotion orders dated the last day on AD.
Lastly ask yourself if you've really earned it CRSC if for purple hearts and injuries sustained either training for or fight war. Simply being deployed doesn't mean you earned it. It the 4.5 years you should of researched all this.
Ok in order to receive the next rank you must have been "promotable" and be on a selection list. CRSC you must have combat codes on your PEB memo or be able to prove the injury occurred in the line of combat duty or directly related to it. Simply hurting yourself in country does not qualify. The example is if you roll you ankle in country it doesn't count. If a truck rolls over your ankle then it does. Back to promotion, you shouldn't have allowed them to keep you so long on hold, "shit of get off the pot". Secondly if you can produce a selection list to transitions they Can/may request your promotion orders dated the last day on AD.
Lastly ask yourself if you've really earned it CRSC if for purple hearts and injuries sustained either training for or fight war. Simply being deployed doesn't mean you earned it. It the 4.5 years you should of researched all this.
Unicorn,
Not to be confrontational, but you personally have no reference to the (provable) direct relation to combat via instrumentation of war, from which my wounds, injuries and other condition(s) that precluded me from "researching all this" came.
Do you honestly think it's normal for someone to be a patient in a MTF for 4.5 yrs if they simply "slipped in the (insert a "...stan" here)safe behind the lines Air Force chow hall on lobster butter"? Pffft! Instead of pointing out how you think someone is NOT eligible or deserving of something much like a VA employee might react, why not put forth as much effort constructively assisting?

"I" didn't "allow" anyone to keep me on medhold. My injuries and subsequent PEB/IDES bureaucracy dictated that. I spent my full time and efforts trying to heal and get back to my home and unit. (Ever deploy 4.5 yrs consecutively away from your wife and kids?) Well, I didn't sign up for that either as a reservist, that's why I left A/D and THEN started a family.
I only wish it were a "rolled ankle" I might still have the Navy and civilian careers I enjoyed prior to mobilization and be living in my gorgeous former house in Hawaii instead of being housebound collecting SSDI as a mid-40 something with lifelong disabilities.
BTW, not that it applies in my case as you assumed, all services do not award Purple Hearts equally. i.e. The Army awards it for PTSD regardless of the disability % awarded by the VASRD or DSM.
Now, for the serious conversational questions that I posted here looking for assistance originally:
1.) What is a " selection list to transitions" as it relates to the Navy senior enlisted selection process? I was the Senior Enlisted Advisor to my C.O. and an "Early Promote" when I was medevac'd due to my injuries.
2.) How do I rectify the PEB codes that are factually inaccurate and provable with unit member witness statements and official DOD flight records? At a Navy CORB? With or w/out formal representation/intervention?
3.) Who is "they"? [ "they" Can/may request your promotion orders dated the last day on A/D].
4.) Wasn't the initial intent of CRSC to: restore a veteran's military retirement pay that has been offset by VA compensation when sufficient evidence exists to confirm the veteran's disability is combat-related"? If so, then yes, I fit that category even more so as I was 22 total YOS but only 19.5 day for day years of service, and not eligible for both pension and disability as most of my A/D peers are/were.
 
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