Surgery during a MEB

trishnron

trishnron

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Can you get surgery while going thru the MEB? Before everything gets sent to the PEB? My meniscus transplant is not doing so well and might have to get another surgery needed to fix the knee. They may even go thru with a knee replacement. Any insight will be helpful.
 
I'm having the same issue as you - needing surgeries - but the denial/delay/stall tactics by my Command have gone on too long.
My packet just went off to the PEB.

I'm hand carrying a letter and a few pages of data to hand in to my US Senator at his office tomorrow morning.

My CoC is gonna get asked some interesting questions when the Senator initiates his inquiry.

I hope this finally gets me my surgeries.

nwlivewire
 
According to my PEBLO, you are NOT authorized to have surgery while your PEB's in progress. If you do, your PEB will basically re-start from scratch.
That's what I was told when I was going through my PEB and needed surgery.
 
Also, make sure that they include ALL of your injuries in the Doc's dictation prior to submitting the package to the PEB.
 
From what I've seen in the hospital, you get the surgery, have 6 months of recovery time and your MEB gets resubmitted at that point...
 
I found an Army Memo, dtd 03 MAY 2011 and signed by Herbert A. Coley, Chief of Staff, US Army Medical Command, HQs, Ft. Sam houston, TX.

SUBJECT: Medically Optional Surgeries for Service Members Undergoing Disability Evaluation

4. Guidance:

a. The definition of a medically optional surgery or procedure is one that may be beneficial but not required to preserve the life of the patient, prevent the loss of function, or return the Soldier to fit for duty status. Many of these procedures are restricted by regulation. Examples include, but are not limited to, Refractive Eye Surgery, Rhinoplasty, Bunionectomy, Optional Dental Procedures and Vasectomy, as well as any type of Cosmetic or Bariatric Surgery.

So basically, a surgery or procedure is NOT considered OPTIONAL if required to:

1. "preserve the life of the patient"

2. "prevent loss of function"

3. "return the Soldier to fit for duty status"

So I have gone to AR 635-40, Chapter 3, and looked up is considered retainable/nonretainable and in need of an MEB for my broken ankle and torn ligaments. In other words, how bad is my injury when compared to these regs?

Then I looked at the PT notes my Physical Therapist wrote and looked at the ROM measurements he took with his taping and with a goniometer on my busted up ankle.

I compared his notes to the AR standards for fitness and, in its current state of UNREPAIR, my ankle flunked the fitness standard as the ankle standard is ROM driven.

My surgery has been denied, I've been told to wait until I get out and have the VA fix it - the Board MUST go on!

This unfitting condition is not on my NARSUM as I broke it after the NARSUM was done, my packet is at the PEB stage, I can't get a PROFILE - they say I don't need one, and I can't get surgery for a grossly unstable ankle that is refusing to heal properly.

And by the time I get out and can get surgery, a year will have elasped since original onset of injury, and I'll probably have traumatic arthritis by then, and have even more complex issues to resolve that may very well leave me permanently degraded - even after surgery.


So I have filed a complaint with my Senator this week to seek redress of this. I am failing medical retention standards, I have loss of function, function is continueing to degrade, I can't get anyone to write me a Temporary profile, it's not on my NARSUM - and I have been denied surgical intervention by the ARMY and been told to "wait until after you discharge and let the VA take care of you. We can't slow down the Board for this".

It seems to me like everyone above my chain in the Army is in violation of the Memo.

I have loss of function - and it's getting worse.

"Loss of function" is not considered "optional".

And leaving a Soldier behind, to languish for months on end with untreated medical issues that will result in doing even greater harm, should not be considered "optional" either.

v/r,
nwlivewire
Sure hope my Senator can help me.
 
Im sorry for what your going through. It is happening to many soldiers. I was approved for a ALIF surgery half way through my process. Another issue that I want bring up, and I know this might not be what you want to hear, but if you do get approved finally for surgery, make sure you keep all of your own documentation. Force your Pueblo to get it to the PEB. Now I tried this and it was still ignored. He didnt do what he said, and while the surgery itself wouldnt have raised my rating for the Army, I was prob looking at another 10-20% from the VA. Especially for the 6 1/2" scar across my stomach with complete nerve damage, and after 6 months still no healing or bone growth after the fusion. In most cases that is considered a failed fusion. But anyway make sure you get all that info and get it to the people you have to get it to. I hate everything about this process. People just dont give a sh*t. They dont care. I have a family, and you know the bills dont stop coming, but the system is so broken they will put you on the street with nothing, and good luck if you can find a job, or in my case, can stay on your feet for longer than 3 or 4 hours a day to work a job. ITS ALL BS. Im happy for the few people that didnt get screwed by the process, but most of us do i have to say.
 
For Navy Personnel:

You are not authorized to have surgery while going through a Physical Evaluation Board (PEB). Questions, contact Navy Personnel Command (PERS-82), 901-874-3230.
 
With all due respect to the military branches:

BIG FLIPPIN' WHOOP!

Somebody's got to draw the curtain back on these people/bean counters...

The ARMY AMMED FT. SAM HOUSTON policy letter #11-038 dtd 03 MAY 2011 says there are THREE conditions when treatment care is NOT considered OPTIONAL when a Soldier is in the middle of an IDES process.

WHEN IT IS REQUIRED

1. "...TO PRESERVE THE LIFE OF THE PATIENT,
2. PREVENT THE LOSS OF FUNCTION,
3. OR RETURN THE SOLDIER TO FIT FOR DUTY STATUS."

*****************

As a Servicemember, when I am denied treatment care, I have the right to an EXPLANATION as to the reasoning behind the denial.
As a Servicemember, when I disagree with a medical decision, I have the right to both an INTERNAL and EXTERNAL appeal process.

These RIGHTS - AS AN ACTIVE DUTY Servicemember, ARE SET FORTH IN DoDI 6000.14 dtd 26 SEP 2011

DoD Patient Bill of Rights and Responsibilities in the Military Health System (MHS)

THIS ALSO INCLUDES THOSE IN THE CB-WTU SYSTEM OR WHATEVER EACH BRANCH CALLS IT WHO ARE BEING TREATED THROUGH CIVILIAN HEALTH CARE THAT IS BEING PAID FOR/OVERSEEN BY THE MILITARY.

I am so sick and tired of fighting for my health care when I am sick and hurt. My injury fails retention standards, and needs surgical intervention, and the ARMY denys approval for a ROUTINE surgery!

A SIMPLE "NO" - WITHOUT EXPLANATION - ROUTINE SURGERY DENIED!

Just because I'm in the middle of a board!!! ??? wtHECK!

This is in violation of AR 40-501, CHAPT 3
This is in violation of AMMED POLICY 11-038
This is in violation of Army standards of medical care and basic medical PRACTICES/standards of care.

The IDES process be damned!!!

I'm really sorry if the Army's numbers to Congress are going to be LOWERED BY POINT ZERO ZERO ZERO ZERO ONE (.00001) because I NEED SURGERY IAW DoDI, AMMED Policy, and AR 40-501, CHAP 3.

But maybe they should have pulled my IDES packet off the assembly line when they knew I had a failing condition to start with!

The Army cares more about "looking good" ON A DAMNED PIECE OF PAPER to Congress by a bunch of Bean-counting, number-crunchers.

The Army could CARE LESS about providing A LIVING, BREATHING, HUMAN SOLDIER with a ROUTINE surgery to repair a failing condition that could restore LOSS OF FUNCTION or PREVENT LOSS OF FUNCTION, OR RETURN THAT BODY PART TO BE WITHIN A FIT FOR DUTY STANDARD.

Can't do that! Why, I'm in the middle of a Flippin' IDES process - a Flippin' YEAR IN THE MAKING!!!!

They DON'T care that I am at risk of having a PERMANENT, life-long decrease in function due to the delay of ROUTINE surgery that can correct AND PREVENT a temporary loss of function condition from becoming a life-long disability with a permanent loss of function issue.

HECK NO!

THEIR NUMBERS TO CONGRESS ARE WAY MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE HUMAN SOLDIER.

The Army takes better care at PMing their vehicles than with PMing HUMAN Soldiers.

I get so pissed off with the Army sometimes I could scream!

Denying the injured SOLDIER proper, accurate and timely medical care and/or the BASIC treatment that can PREVENT long-term illness/injury/permanent disability is simply

IMMORAL
UNETHICAL
AGAINST MODERN MEDICAL STANDARDS and PRACTICES
VIOLATES EVERY REGUALTION/DoDI/POLICY LETTER AND EVEN
THE AMMED 5-YEAR PLAN

Imho, THIS OUTFIT IS ONE, SICK TWISTED SISTER

"Never leave a Soldier behind".....

MY A$$!

They shoot horses, don't they?

I'm surprised they haven't initiated that on us injured AMERICAN SERVICEMEMBERS/HUMANS......

It would certainly up their numbers to Congress and get us all off the ledger-books.

I mean, as long as they're already getting away with murder, why not simply make it "official"?
Tis merely a variation on "A Modest Proposal".

UNBELIEVEABLE!

V/R,
NWLIVEWIRE
 
Wow, I do feel your pain and am angry as well. Take a look at Nate47 profile and you will understand why he is posting these can statements.
 
In essence, the Army Ft Sam Houston policy is correct – it is only truly elective surgery that can be denied while undergoing DES evaluation. Now, if only the Services would follow such policies. DoD needs to weigh in and establish/enforce a DoD policy on this issue. The Navy is in its own world on this front.

Let’s take the case of a Navy seaman who required knee replacement surgery. She was told she could not have the surgery because she was undergoing DES evaluation. The Navy IPEB deemed her knee unfitting, rated her at 10% disabling and order her separated without disability retirement. After her IPEB findings, but prior to her separation, her surgeon did the knee replacement anyways because she needed it. The VASRD calls for a 100% rating for a knee replacement for one year after the surgery. Per the VASRD, a knee replacement can never be rated at less than 30%, the minimum requirement for DoD disability retirement.

The Navy told the seaman that, despite the knee replacement, her 10% rating held and she would be discharged without disability retirement. We fought to get her rerated given the truth had changed and she now qualified for a 100% rating. She should have been placed on TDRL and eventually PDRL (if still unfit) once her rehab period of one year was over.

The Navy stated out she must go. The further stated that if she was reentered into the DES, her MEB had to be accepted by the PEB by her EAOS or she would be discharged.

The Navy put out policy that stated if the MEB was not accepted by the PEB by the EAOS date, the member would be dropped from DES processing and discharged without disability benefits. The Navy then modified the policy stating this applied only to legacy DES cases. For Integrated DES cases, the member needed only to have a case control number established by the VA by the EAOS date for DES processing to continue.

The seaman was initially adjudicated under the integrated DES and would remain under the Integrated IDES for further evaluation. However, the Navy arbitrarily and capriciously decided that because she had already been though the DES, again under the integrated IDES, that she would be held to the legacy DES standard of having to have her new MEB accepted by her PEB by her EAOS date. If you are looking for logic on this position, there is none. It was total bull from an organization bent on denying disability benefits.

The seaman’s MEB outreach counsel and I raised holy hell about this. I went straight to DoD on the issue. Our efforts worked and she was extended on active duty to undergo another round of DES evaluation where she remains today. Now we wait to see if she will receive a proper disability rating or if the Navy has other tricks up their sleeve. I am fearful of the latter because the Navy culture is so broken on the disability front. Time will tell.

The Navy is in serious need of a public intervention much like the Army got via the Walter Reed scandal.

Mike
 
My surgeons that say I need a (R) Knee Replacement . My other surgeon says I reherniated my back a 3rd time and need a back fusion after 2 failed microdesecetomys (I have been on limited duty for over 1 year mostly working 4 hours day because of my back). The PEB wants to kick me out without surgery. Will I be rated a 30% as you stated above ie. the basic minium on my way out or will it happen when I do a Notice of Dispute after the VA does my operations and rates me at a minimum 30% for both injuries.
 
It's all about the numbers, all about money, not about you as a Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine, Coast Guard or other defender of freedom, protector of rights. My eyes opened when this process started.

At the end of the day, you still have to take care of yourself and your family. I have seen the true colors of this bureaucracy.

"I will never leave an Airman behind"--bullshit.



BIG FLIPPIN' WHOOP!

Somebody's got to draw the curtain back on these people/bean counters...

The ARMY AMMED FT. SAM HOUSTON policy letter #11-038 dtd 03 MAY 2011 says there are THREE conditions when treatment care is NOT considered OPTIONAL when a Soldier is in the middle of an IDES process.

WHEN IT IS REQUIRED

1. "...TO PRESERVE THE LIFE OF THE PATIENT,
2. PREVENT THE LOSS OF FUNCTION,
3. OR RETURN THE SOLDIER TO FIT FOR DUTY STATUS."

*****************

As a Servicemember, when I am denied treatment care, I have the right to an EXPLANATION as to the reasoning behind the denial.
As a Servicemember, when I disagree with a medical decision, I have the right to both an INTERNAL and EXTERNAL appeal process.

These RIGHTS - AS AN ACTIVE DUTY Servicemember, ARE SET FORTH IN DoDI 6000.14 dtd 26 SEP 2011

DoD Patient Bill of Rights and Responsibilities in the Military Health System (MHS)

THIS ALSO INCLUDES THOSE IN THE CB-WTU SYSTEM OR WHATEVER EACH BRANCH CALLS IT WHO ARE BEING TREATED THROUGH CIVILIAN HEALTH CARE THAT IS BEING PAID FOR/OVERSEEN BY THE MILITARY.

I am so sick and tired of fighting for my health care when I am sick and hurt. My injury fails retention standards, and needs surgical intervention, and the ARMY denys approval for a ROUTINE surgery!

A SIMPLE "NO" - WITHOUT EXPLANATION - ROUTINE SURGERY DENIED!

Just because I'm in the middle of a board!!! ??? wtHECK!

This is in violation of AR 40-501, CHAPT 3
This is in violation of AMMED POLICY 11-038
This is in violation of Army standards of medical care and basic medical PRACTICES/standards of care.

The IDES process be damned!!!

I'm really sorry if the Army's numbers to Congress are going to be LOWERED BY POINT ZERO ZERO ZERO ZERO ONE (.00001) because I NEED SURGERY IAW DoDI, AMMED Policy, and AR 40-501, CHAP 3.

But maybe they should have pulled my IDES packet off the assembly line when they knew I had a failing condition to start with!

The Army cares more about "looking good" ON A DAMNED PIECE OF PAPER to Congress by a bunch of Bean-counting, number-crunchers.

The Army could CARE LESS about providing A LIVING, BREATHING, HUMAN SOLDIER with a ROUTINE surgery to repair a failing condition that could restore LOSS OF FUNCTION or PREVENT LOSS OF FUNCTION, OR RETURN THAT BODY PART TO BE WITHIN A FIT FOR DUTY STANDARD.

Can't do that! Why, I'm in the middle of a Flippin' IDES process - a Flippin' YEAR IN THE MAKING!!!!

They DON'T care that I am at risk of having a PERMANENT, life-long decrease in function due to the delay of ROUTINE surgery that can correct AND PREVENT a temporary loss of function condition from becoming a life-long disability with a permanent loss of function issue.

HECK NO!

THEIR NUMBERS TO CONGRESS ARE WAY MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE HUMAN SOLDIER.

The Army takes better care at PMing their vehicles than with PMing HUMAN Soldiers.

I get so pissed off with the Army sometimes I could scream!

Denying the injured SOLDIER proper, accurate and timely medical care and/or the BASIC treatment that can PREVENT long-term illness/injury/permanent disability is simply

IMMORAL
UNETHICAL
AGAINST MODERN MEDICAL STANDARDS and PRACTICES
VIOLATES EVERY REGUALTION/DoDI/POLICY LETTER AND EVEN
THE AMMED 5-YEAR PLAN

Imho, THIS OUTFIT IS ONE, SICK TWISTED SISTER

"Never leave a Soldier behind".....

MY A$$!

They shoot horses, don't they?

I'm surprised they haven't initiated that on us injured AMERICAN SERVICEMEMBERS/HUMANS......

It would certainly up their numbers to Congress and get us all off the ledger-books.

I mean, as long as they're already getting away with murder, why not simply make it "official"?
Tis merely a variation on "A Modest Proposal".

UNBELIEVEABLE!

V/R,
NWLIVEWIRE[/quote]
 
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