18 1/2 years Army, pending MEB/PEB

edcny

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
So I have been in the Army for 18 1/2 years and they are starting a MEB/PEB due to some injuries that have progressed over the years (bi-lateral knees w/diagnoses for no high impact again, Bi-lateral shoulder injuries, and 3 bulging discs in the back with pinched nerves, arthritis in most joints, PTSD). My case worker has told me that the IDES process typically takes 180 days, this would put me out at 19 1/3 years of service. I read in the Regulation (AR 635-40, para 4-29) that if a service member has more than 18 years of service and found unfit they can submit a letter for COAD (continue on active duty) in order to finish their time in order to receive their pension. My question is, has anyone experienced this, or does anyone know of any situations where a COAD has been denied? I would really hate to loose my pension; however, it is out of my hands besides submitting appeals etc... Hopefully some of you all know the answer to this. Thanks for your time.
 

tony292

PEB Forum Veteran
I can’t answer the COAD question. But I can tell you there are at least six levels of appeals in the MEB/PEB process. And at the end of each appeal, you’ll be afforded 10 days to sign the paperwork. So that’s at least 60 days. Plus your terminal leave... plus the processing times for each level of appeal.

Appeals include:
1. Narsum rebuttal
2. IMR independent medical review
3. MEB appeal
4. PEB rebuttal
5. IPEB
6. VARR
7. USAPDA appeal


My process took just over one year! Many more on this forum have had a year processing times as well.
 

chaplaincharlie

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I would stall, delay and take every opportunity to push the process right. You might find it beneficial to talk to an attorney with MEB/PEB experience. He/she would know how to make the system grind even more slowly. Getting to 20 makes lots of $$$$$ difference.
 

edcny

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I would stall, delay and take every opportunity to push the process right. You might find it beneficial to talk to an attorney with MEB/PEB experience. He/she would know how to make the system grind even more slowly. Getting to 20 makes lots of $$$$$ difference.
Do you know of the COAD process?
 

edcny

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I would stall, delay and take every opportunity to push the process right. You might find it beneficial to talk to an attorney with MEB/PEB experience. He/she would know how to make the system grind even more slowly. Getting to 20 makes lots of $$$$$ difference.
With that being said I have been looking into the Disability retirement vs. 20 year retirement. For disability retirement it is = to (years in service x 2.5% x Base pay) from my understanding, with VA benefits would this not be = to or greater than a 20 year retirement? I mean I am sure you are right about the 20 logically, but it seems to me that the equation would work out to be generally the same.
 

RonG

Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
With that being said I have been looking into the Disability retirement vs. 20 year retirement. For disability retirement it is = to (years in service x 2.5% x Base pay) from my understanding, with VA benefits would this not be = to or greater than a 20 year retirement? I mean I am sure you are right about the 20 logically, but it seems to me that the equation would work out to be generally the same.
Waiver of retired pay without restoration via CRDP is a consideration if you retired with less than 20 years. Note: CRDP nor CRSC replaces or restores the waived disability portion of retired pay.

1. Temporary Disability Retirement List
If you are found unfit to perform your duties because of a disability that may not be permanent, you may be placed on the Temporary Disability List (TDRL).

Your retired pay will be computed using one of two methods:

your disability percentage (using a minimum of 50 percent for payment purposes while on the TDRL), referred to as Method A,
or
your years of active service, referred to as Method B.
Your pay will be computed based on whichever is more beneficial for you.

2. Permanent Disability Retired List
If your disability is found to be permanent and is rated at 30 percent or greater, or you have 20 or more years of service, you will be placed on the Permanent Disability Retired List (PDRL).

Your retired pay will be computed using one of two methods.

Your disability percentage, referred to as Method A.
Your years of active service, referred to as Method B.
Your pay will be computed based on whichever is more beneficial for you.

3. As a disability retiree with less than 20 years AD, your retired pay will be waived/lost dollar for dollar in the amount of VA comp received. You would not be eligible for CRDP which causes concurrent receipt of retired pay and VA comp. You might be eligible for CRSC which replaces some or all of the longevity portion of retired pay waived for approved combat related disabilities.

4. If the 20 years of which you spoke is 20 good years (which you would be trying to attain)—CRDP (if othwise eligible) would not be payable until you met the RC age requirement (and 20 good years + VA rating >=50%).

Ron
 
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chaplaincharlie

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@edcny

CRDP kicks in at 20. Before twenty, a medical retirement is one or the other. After 20, you get CRDP and that means 20 is significantly more that 19 years, 364 days.
 

RonG

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Reference: Retiree receives CH 61 retirement but also qualified for regular retirement due to >=20 years AD

1. A retiree with the circumstances shown at the reference line could still receive retired pay computed using the disability percentage rather than the longevity computation (i.e., AD years x 2.5% = longevity computation).

2. The CH retiree would waive retired pay dollar for dollar in the amount of VA comp received.

3. The retiree would receive a combination of residual retired pay (if any) plus CRDP that would not exceed the dollar amount of the longevity computation for regular retirement. In other words, residual retired pay + CRDP cannot exceed longevity computation.

4. As Chaplaincharlie indicated, attaining 20 years AD has distinct benefits.

Ron
 

edcny

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Reference: Retiree receives CH 61 retirement but also qualified for regular retirement due to >=20 years AD

1. A retiree with the circumstances shown at the reference line could still receive retired pay computed using the disability percentage rather than the longevity computation (i.e., AD years x 2.5% = longevity computation).

2. The CH retiree would waive retired pay dollar for dollar in the amount of VA comp received.

3. The retiree would receive a combination of residual retired pay (if any) plus CRDP that would not exceed the dollar amount of the longevity computation for regular retirement. In other words, residual retired pay + CRDP cannot exceed longevity computation.

4. As Chaplaincharlie indicated, attaining 20 years AD has distinct benefits.

Ron

@chaplaincharlie @RonG

Makes complete sense. I missed that CRDP does not work for less than 20 years. Thanks fellas.

So one of my buddies just went through the medboard process, and again pointed me to AR 635-40, para 4-29, where it says that a service member with over 18 years HAS to go to a secretarial review to be able to finish their career. It says it is not a COAD but would be treated the same. So it appears that I would be ok to finish my 20. He did tell me that they in fact tried to get him out at 19 as well, until he and his lawyer presented AR 635-40, para 4-29 to the PEB and now he is medically retired at 20 years and receives his pension and 100% VA ratings. But had he not shown them that, or had he not known that, he would have ended up in a bad position.

Thank you all for your input!!
 

chaplaincharlie

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@edcny
Glad your were able to clear up in your mind the prerequisites for CRDP. Best wishes. Mike
 

edcny

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
So with this new DoDi policy I think I am safe to continue to retirement regardless of the PEB results, Correct?


4.2. RETENTION DETERMINATION
a. The Secretaries of the Military Departments may retain Service members who are non-
deployable in excess of 12 consecutive months, on a case-by-case basis, if determined to be in
the best interest of the Service, based on:
(1) The Service member’s ability to perform appropriate military duties commensurate
with his or her office, grade, rank, or skill.
b. The Secretaries of the Military Departments may approve retention for Service members
who are non-deployable in excess of 12 consecutive months for up to:
(1) The length of time remaining on a Service member’s enlistment contract; or
(2) Three years for officers, including warrant officers, and those enlisted members
serving on indefinite contracts.

4.3. SPECIAL CATEGORIES
(2) Retention will be authorized in accordance with Paragraph 4.2.b.
d. Unless sooner discharged or retired under another provision of law, or discharged due to
misconduct or sub-standard performance, the Secretaries of the Military Departments may retain
those Service members who are, or will be, non-deployable for 12 months or longer due to
administrative reasons and who have attained such years of creditable service so as to be within
3 years of qualifying for:
(1) Regular retirement (or in the case of enlisted members of the Navy or Marine Corps,
transfer to the Fleet Reserve or Fleet Marine Corps Reserve, as the case may be) pursuant to
Sections 3911, 3914, 6323, 6330, 8911, or 8914 of Title 10, U.S.C.;


What do you guys think?
 

oldvet

Registered Member
So with this new DoDi policy I think I am safe to continue to retirement regardless of the PEB results, Correct?


4.2. RETENTION DETERMINATION
a. The Secretaries of the Military Departments may retain Service members who are non-
deployable in excess of 12 consecutive months, on a case-by-case basis, if determined to be in
the best interest of the Service, based on:
(1) The Service member’s ability to perform appropriate military duties commensurate
with his or her office, grade, rank, or skill.
b. The Secretaries of the Military Departments may approve retention for Service members
who are non-deployable in excess of 12 consecutive months for up to:
(1) The length of time remaining on a Service member’s enlistment contract; or
(2) Three years for officers, including warrant officers, and those enlisted members
serving on indefinite contracts.

4.3. SPECIAL CATEGORIES
(2) Retention will be authorized in accordance with Paragraph 4.2.b.
d. Unless sooner discharged or retired under another provision of law, or discharged due to
misconduct or sub-standard performance, the Secretaries of the Military Departments may retain
those Service members who are, or will be, non-deployable for 12 months or longer due to
administrative reasons and who have attained such years of creditable service so as to be within
3 years of qualifying for:
(1) Regular retirement (or in the case of enlisted members of the Navy or Marine Corps,
transfer to the Fleet Reserve or Fleet Marine Corps Reserve, as the case may be) pursuant to
Sections 3911, 3914, 6323, 6330, 8911, or 8914 of Title 10, U.S.C.;


What do you guys think?
What DoDI is this? I am in the same situation as you, I think, facing MEB/PEB with more than 18 years of active duty service and at risk of losing eligibility for retirement pay and benefits. Thank you.
 

lucky208

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
@oldvet I believe the DODI mentioned above is DODI 1332.45 Retention Determinations for Non-Deployable Service Members (JUL 18). If you are Army take a look at AR 635-40 Disability Evaluation for Retention, Retirement or Separation (JAN 17).
 

Orange Sky

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I just went through this process and nearly identical timeline as you. My advice is to get your 20!!! At each level, you should have 10 days (not business days) to review any paperwork. Use the full 10 days. There are around 3 of these 10-days you should have. That’s 30 days. I requested a formal board. That took right at 6-8 weeks. After the formal board, I had another 10 days to review the paperwork. Once that was up, I appealed to SECAF as a placeholder. It sat there for many months without any action whatsoever. Once I got to the safe zone, I pulled it back. It took a week to receive notification. I had to coordinate with my legal rep so this added another few days. I saved all my leave and requested 20 terminal days, which helped stretch my pay out as well.
You should make the 20 but don’t get out before then or you lose your CRDP entitlement. I heard horror stories and know a guy who got separated at 19 yrs 3 months and another one 19 years and 6 months. Both AD. I also did a ton of praying! The extra AD paycheck for the rest of your life adds a lot of financial security.
 

edcny

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I just went through this process and nearly identical timeline as you. My advice is to get your 20!!! At each level, you should have 10 days (not business days) to review any paperwork. Use the full 10 days. There are around 3 of these 10-days you should have. That’s 30 days. I requested a formal board. That took right at 6-8 weeks. After the formal board, I had another 10 days to review the paperwork. Once that was up, I appealed to SECAF as a placeholder. It sat there for many months without any action whatsoever. Once I got to the safe zone, I pulled it back. It took a week to receive notification. I had to coordinate with my legal rep so this added another few days. I saved all my leave and requested 20 terminal days, which helped stretch my pay out as well.
You should make the 20 but don’t get out before then or you lose your CRDP entitlement. I heard horror stories and know a guy who got separated at 19 yrs 3 months and another one 19 years and 6 months. Both AD. I also did a ton of praying! The extra AD paycheck for the rest of your life adds a lot of financial security.
Were you able to stretch it to 20?
 

edcny

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Cool, just got my C&P exams done, but they didn’t have an opening until Mid-December so that saved me a month too. My Peblo and VA Rep are all about stretching my time out so I think I will make it. Thanks fellas
 

oldvet

Registered Member
I found another reference supporting retention of Soldiers with more than 18 but less than 20 years of service. AR 601-280 Army Retention Program -1 April 2016 authorizes exceptions to policy for:
- Soldiers failing to meet retention standards of AR 600-9
- Soldiers being separated for physical disability with entitlement to receive disability severance pay
- Soldiers being separated with less than 20 years active Federal service by reason of physical disability
- (among others - see attached excerpt from this Army Regulation)
This regulation states that requests that have been disapproved by any commander in the chain of command will be forwarded to the appropriate approval authority for final action for special category personnel.
AR 601-280 paragraph 3-10 (n): Special category. Waiver authorities will not disapprove requests for waiver(s) of disqualification(s), or exception(s) to policy, for the Soldiers listed below who have less than 20 years of active Federal service. (4) Soldiers who have completed 18 but less than 20, years of active Federal service and are requesting extension of enlistment to acquire enough time to complete 20 years of active Federal service.

So.... Even if you are getting push-back from your chain of command and medical providers about providing recommendations for COAD (as I am), this regulation directs that requests for waiver or exception to policy be forwarded by the Soldier's immediate commander for processing. (Whether the immediate Commander(s) approve of it, or not).
 

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