After 199 signed

anon12345

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Yup! Bingo—feel free to call your installation Finance Office also...they’ll be able to review you LES and advise you on appropriate way to complete your DA-31 for PTDY & Terminal Leave. Congrats!
 

MilitaryBlake

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NOTHING! I called transition office and let them know I signed the 17th and it’s been almost 3 weeks and they said “oh that’s nothing” and that it’s even slower because they are running skeleton crew. ugh. We are just left to practicing patience I guess. She said I could call everyday to check but that they check every morning and would let me know as soon as they know.
I see you sent this first message today at around 0800. Then just a little while later you responded you have final out date and everything. That went fast! How did you get it to go so fast? Don't you have to meet with Commander, sign and check DD214, etc.?
 

MilitaryBlake

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Unfortunately I’m still waiting to receive the Extension Packet documents back with O-6 signature...so I haven’t submitted it to my PEBLO yet. Just taking a few days for the DA31 & DA4187 to be staffed.
Any word yet if your extension packet was approved or not?
 

JoePlasm

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When calculating the leave days do we account for the 2.5 we get for each month we are on terminal leave? If I am on leave through 4 August starting today I would request for 2.5 for May, June and July yes? Adding 7.5 to my accrued days as of the end of April.

Yes
 

JoePlasm

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No idea, but I imagine the pay period following you selling, and since you'll likely need to do that during your out-processing, maybe 1 to 2 pay periods (15-30 days)? That's a guess though. I honestly can't imagine it not being rectified before terminal leave is over, its not like MEB separation are the only ones where people sell leave back, I don't think DoD wants to be paying ETS, Chapters, and other 1 time extra pay checks some point after pay as stopped.
 

RonG

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Re:
Marshenator said:
When calculating the leave days do we account for the 2.5 we get for each month we are on terminal leave? If I am on leave through 4 August starting today I would request for 2.5 for May, June and July yes? Adding 7.5 to my accrued days as of the end of April.

-----

From memory...30 years ago:

1-6 days service= 0.5 days accrual
7-12 days = 1.0 day accrual
13-18 days = 1.5 days accrual
19-24 days = 2.0 days accrual
25-30 days = 2.5 days accrual

You would accrue 0.5 days of leave for 1-4 August. Also, as Joe said, one accrues leave while on leave...except during periods of excess leave.

Ron
 

anon12345

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Any word yet if your extension packet was approved or not?

Update: My Retirement Date Extension Packet was approved/signed by the first O-6 in my CoC on Friday. I immediately sent the packet to my PEBLO who forwarded it same-day to USAPDA Special Actions. The extension was approved/stamped/signed and sent back this morning. I sent it to my local MPD/Transition Center right away and—minutes ago—received orders & a working copy of My DD214 in my email.

Ultimately, I was able to follow the procedures in place to push my retirement date ~27 days beyond the ‘NLT 90 Days’ date that I was issued. This was done in order to ensure that I would be able to use my 80+ days of accrued leave, rather than being forced to sell back a significant portion of those days.
 

MilitaryBlake

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Update: My Retirement Date Extension Packet was approved/signed by the first O-6 in my CoC on Friday. I immediately sent the packet to my PEBLO who forwarded it same-day to USAPDA Special Actions. The extension was approved/stamped/signed and sent back this morning. I sent it to my local MPD/Transition Center right away and—minutes ago—received orders & a working copy of My DD214 in my email.

Ultimately, I was able to follow the procedures in place to push my retirement date ~27 days beyond the ‘NLT 90 Days’ date that I was issued. This was done in order to ensure that I would be able to use my 80+ days of accrued leave, rather than being forced to sell back a significant portion of those days.
Thxs for the update. That took what - approx two weeks? During that time were you able to at least start taking care of some out-processing stuff? With perhaps your old NLT date? I am in the process right now... needing to request for approx. 32 days. Commander just signed it, now I need O-6 to sign. But, if it takes two weeks, then again, I will not have burnt all leave. I will have sell back some, just not a ton. So, I guess not a huge deal if it takes a few weeks to get the extension approved...
 

anon12345

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Thxs for the update. That took what - approx two weeks? During that time were you able to at least start taking care of some out-processing stuff? With perhaps your old NLT date? I am in the process right now... needing to request for approx. 32 days. Commander just signed it, now I need O-6 to sign. But, if it takes two weeks, then again, I will not have burnt all leave. I will have sell back some, just not a ton. So, I guess not a huge deal if it takes a few weeks to get the extension approved...
Right, even though it’s frustrating it’s just more time on the Army payroll without burning leave days. Fingers crossed for you. Yes, it took 13 days...and then it took about two hours once it reached USAPDA to be approved and returned. And lastly, unfortunately I wasn’t able to knock out any out-processing tasks because my installation requires orders before unit & installation clearance papers are granted/issued. Hopefully you can get a head start on CIF clearing like I did using my Letter of Unfit from PEB. Technically, the installation clearance papers won’t be issued to you (via your S1) until 10 business days before your final out date...but maybe they’ll give you a jump start on all that.
 

JA$$9999

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Congrats! I'm still waiting. I'm not on the list yet. However, I am curious about your question as well.
 

Marshenator

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Right, even though it’s frustrating it’s just more time on the Army payroll without burning leave days. Fingers crossed for you. Yes, it took 13 days...and then it took about two hours once it reached USAPDA to be approved and returned. And lastly, unfortunately I wasn’t able to knock out any out-processing tasks because my installation requires orders before unit & installation clearance papers are granted/issued. Hopefully you can get a head start on CIF clearing like I did using my Letter of Unfit from PEB. Technically, the installation clearance papers won’t be issued to you (via your S1) until 10 business days before your final out date...but maybe they’ll give you a jump start on all that.
Update: My Retirement Date Extension Packet was approved/signed by the first O-6 in my CoC on Friday. I immediately sent the packet to my PEBLO who forwarded it same-day to USAPDA Special Actions. The extension was approved/stamped/signed and sent back this morning. I sent it to my local MPD/Transition Center right away and—minutes ago—received orders & a working copy of My DD214 in my email.

Ultimately, I was able to follow the procedures in place to push my retirement date ~27 days beyond the ‘NLT 90 Days’ date that I was issued. This was done in order to ensure that I would be able to use my 80+ days of accrued leave, rather than being forced to sell back a significant portion of those days.

My 4187 was approved for extension but my DA31 was denied by the CG and MEDCoE. Who signed your DA31? I do t understand why mine had to go to a 2 star general. Transition says they needed the 4287 and DA31 in order to cut new orders but CG says he can’t legally sign the DA31 until I have orders with the new date. Catch 22. I’ve gotten congress involved and have yet another open door with company, battalion and brigade Tuesday to “figure this out” I do t understand why this is so hard
 

MilitaryBlake

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PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
My 4187 was approved for extension but my DA31 was denied by the CG and MEDCoE. Who signed your DA31? I do t understand why mine had to go to a 2 star general. Transition says they needed the 4287 and DA31 in order to cut new orders but CG says he can’t legally sign the DA31 until I have orders with the new date. Catch 22. I’ve gotten congress involved and have yet another open door with company, battalion and brigade Tuesday to “figure this out” I do t understand why this is so hard
I do not understand this either. Nor why your case needed to go to CG. I believe mine is also only going to 0-6 for signature. Like @anon12345's case.
Update on mine is that BDE wants more detailed information why extension is needed. This is easy. My last year was on an overseas tour where leave was not permitted or extremely rare. Then MEB where leave was not permitted. Then COVID and I didn't take any b/c of health concerns for my family. That is my last two years in the Army. My "excessive" leave has been due to duty demands (and other situational factors) NOT due to me "hoarding leave". BDE wanting me to provide further justification kinda sounds like they are accusing me of the latter. Anyone know if any further actions I can take if extension is not approved? I will be very angry if I cannot take all my leave because of recent events that even the Army could not avoid (COVID), MEB constraints on Leave and then my previous year of being OCONUS and the inherent limitations of leave from that assignment....
 

Marshenator

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
As I was reading the regulation, anything over 30 days extension has to get approved by CG. I’ll find out more tomorrow. I’m just asking to extend to use 35.5 days. Technically only 13 of those days are over the 60 and deemed “excess leave” and depends on how everyone is interpreting the regulation I guess. I’ll keep you updated.
 

RonG

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As I was reading the regulation, anything over 30 days extension has to get approved by CG. I’ll find out more tomorrow. I’m just asking to extend to use 35.5 days. Technically only 13 of those days are over the 60 and deemed “excess leave” and depends on how everyone is interpreting the regulation I guess. I’ll keep you updated.
From a lifetime ago (I have not looked at the pay manual to determine if this has changed):

One could enter an excess leave status in two ways
--Taking advance leave in excess of 45 days
--Taking more leave than could be accrued before their ETS

Ron
 

MilitaryBlake

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
As I was reading the regulation, anything over 30 days extension has to get approved by CG. I’ll find out more tomorrow. I’m just asking to extend to use 35.5 days. Technically only 13 of those days are over the 60 and deemed “excess leave” and depends on how everyone is interpreting the regulation I guess. I’ll keep you updated.
Crap. I am just over the 30 day limit for requesting an extension. However, I would gladly ask for less of an extension if it means that I don't need the CG's signature and just buy the time back. I am under the impression this will not get done in enough time prior to me leaving. I have another job lined up and need to be outta here by 15 JUL. That gives me plenty of time still, but with how things are moving......

Yea. Keep us posted, I will be eager to hear of the response.
 

Marshenator

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Crap. I am just over the 30 day limit for requesting an extension. However, I would gladly ask for less of an extension if it means that I don't need the CG's signature and just buy the time back. I am under the impression this will not get done in enough time prior to me leaving. I have another job lined up and need to be outta here by 15 JUL. That gives me plenty of time still, but with how things are moving......

Yea. Keep us posted, I will be eager to hear of the response.

okay, the CG approval is for excess leave So you’re good. You’re only requesting accrued leave. I found these and brought them to my meeting today. It wasn’t a good meeting as I am emotional and upset as I am 1 week into my transition leave and mad this isn’t solved and I have to educate everyone.

MILPER Message 09-067 5. C “In accordance with AR 600-8-10, Soldiers separating due to disability are authorized to cash-in leave in accordance with the provisions of the law or to use accrued leave as transition leave. Approval authority for transition leave that results in exceeding the 90-day NLT date is the first colonel/06 in the Soldiers chain of command. When such leave is approved, the transition center will contact USAPDA chief, retirements and separations branch at (202)782-1996 or DSN 662-1996 to coordinate the extension of the 90-day NLT date.” And of course the # is no longer in service.

DA PAM 635-40 3-14. “Transition from active duty
For tracking purposes, the transition phase of the DES commences when USAPDA approves the disposition decision and ends on the date the Soldier separates from the Army.
a. Within 5 days after USAPDA approves the disability disposition, USAPDA establishes a separation date of not later than 90 days. Within the 90-day timeframe, the transition center, in coordination with the unit command, establishes a separation or retirement date that considers unit clearing time, approved permissive temporary duty, and utilization of accrued leave. The not later than 90 days is not intended to result in every Soldier having 90 days transition time. However, the not later than date may be exceeded to use accrued leave or for extenuating circumstances in accordance with AR 635–8.”

AR 635-8 6–4. “Permissive temporary duty and accrued leave
a. RA Soldiers separating due to disability may be authorized PTDY. RC Soldiers not on active duty are not authorized PTDY. The purpose of transition PTDY is to facilitate a Soldier’s transition into civilian life and to conduct job and house hunting activities in accordance with AR 600–8–10. Commanders must ensure that Soldiers have a need to either locate new housing or conduct job search activities during requested dates of transition PTDY. If neither of these activities is necessary then transition PTDY is not appropriate. PTDY is an authorization, not an entitlement, and must be approved by the Soldier’s chain of command.
b. Soldiers separating due to disability are authorized to sell back excess leave or to use accrued leave as transition leave.”

AR 635-8 6–5. “Soldier counseling
a. The Soldier’s chain of command will counsel the Soldier to determine the separation date and initiate DA Form 31 for PTDY and/or transition leave if requested. The separation date will normally be established within the timeframe provided by the USAPDA. It is the purview of the Soldier’s chain of command, in coordination with the transition center, to establish the separation date. Active separation processing begins as soon as final adjudication is completed. The period established by the USAPDA allows flexibility to assign a separation date based on the individual Soldier’s circumstances and affords the Soldier the opportunity to use any accrued leave or PTDY the Soldier is authorized. Regular Army Ser- vicemembers should depart the installation on PTDY and/or transition leave as soon as unit and installation clearance is completed.
b. Approval authority for transition leave that results in exceeding the “No Later Than Date,” as discussed in paragraph 6-3 is the first colonel/O–6 in the Soldier’s chain of command. When such leave is approved, the transition center will contact the USAPDA Chief, Retirements and Separations branch to coordinate the extension of the “No Later Than Date” at [email protected]

AR 635-8 6-5 “d. The commander will direct the Soldier to report to the transition center with copies of the counseling statement and DA Form 31, if requesting PTDY or transition leave, no later than 3 workdays after notification from the transition center. e. Prior to publication of separation orders, the transition center will print a copy of the USAPDA notification report contained in TRANSPROC. A copy of the USAPDA notification report and the Soldier’s counseling statement will be
maintained by the transition center as part of the DD Form 214 copy 8 file.”
 

Marshenator

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Th
From a lifetime ago (I have not looked at the pay manual to determine if this has changed):

One could enter an excess leave status in two ways
--Taking advance leave in excess of 45 days
--Taking more leave than could be accrued before their ETS

Ron
Thank you Ron. I have to admit that when I saw “excess leave” I thought of it as any leave past the 90 day NLT date. What’s actually happening is we are requesting to use our “accrued leave” and a much simpler process thankfully I had a total brain fart with the verbiage
 

Marshenator

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
I do not understand this either. Nor why your case needed to go to CG. I believe mine is also only going to 0-6 for signature. Like @anon12345's case.
Update on mine is that BDE wants more detailed information why extension is needed. This is easy. My last year was on an overseas tour where leave was not permitted or extremely rare. Then MEB where leave was not permitted. Then COVID and I didn't take any b/c of health concerns for my family. That is my last two years in the Army. My "excessive" leave has been due to duty demands (and other situational factors) NOT due to me "hoarding leave". BDE wanting me to provide further justification kinda sounds like they are accusing me of the latter. Anyone know if any further actions I can take if extension is not approved? I will be very angry if I cannot take all my leave because of recent events that even the Army could not avoid (COVID), MEB constraints on Leave and then my previous year of being OCONUS and the inherent limitations of leave from that assignment....

and if needed there is a SECDEF memo dated 16 April 2020 allowing us to carry 120 days instead of the 60 due to COVID

also in a
AR 635-40 4-8 states “the Soldier a. Will remain available for the DES process to complete any required actions. Leave, while permissible, is generally discouraged in the MEB phase with the exception of emergency situations . . .”
 

MilitaryBlake

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Just had an epiphany. For some, it may not make sense to extend. Not for everyone, but for some. For example, if I am not allowed to extend past 10 AUG, then I at least have the right to have my leave days paid out. I get it, it will only be for base pay, (not BAH, etc) but at my rank/yrs of service 40 days of leave paid out will be X amount of dollars. So, I will take a hit there because that is less than what I would be paid 40 days of AD service with BAS, Basic pay, and BAH. But, if I am out 10 AUG instead of the proposed I officially become a VET then as well and therefore my VET pay begins.
okay, the CG approval is for excess leave So you’re good. You’re only requesting accrued leave. I found these and brought them to my meeting today. It wasn’t a good meeting as I am emotional and upset as I am 1 week into my transition leave and mad this isn’t solved and I have to educate everyone.

MILPER Message 09-067 5. C “In accordance with AR 600-8-10, Soldiers separating due to disability are authorized to cash-in leave in accordance with the provisions of the law or to use accrued leave as transition leave. Approval authority for transition leave that results in exceeding the 90-day NLT date is the first colonel/06 in the Soldiers chain of command. When such leave is approved, the transition center will contact USAPDA chief, retirements and separations branch at (202)782-1996 or DSN 662-1996 to coordinate the extension of the 90-day NLT date.” And of course the # is no longer in service.

DA PAM 635-40 3-14. “Transition from active duty
For tracking purposes, the transition phase of the DES commences when USAPDA approves the disposition decision and ends on the date the Soldier separates from the Army.
a. Within 5 days after USAPDA approves the disability disposition, USAPDA establishes a separation date of not later than 90 days. Within the 90-day timeframe, the transition center, in coordination with the unit command, establishes a separation or retirement date that considers unit clearing time, approved permissive temporary duty, and utilization of accrued leave. The not later than 90 days is not intended to result in every Soldier having 90 days transition time. However, the not later than date may be exceeded to use accrued leave or for extenuating circumstances in accordance with AR 635–8.”

AR 635-8 6–4. “Permissive temporary duty and accrued leave
a. RA Soldiers separating due to disability may be authorized PTDY. RC Soldiers not on active duty are not authorized PTDY. The purpose of transition PTDY is to facilitate a Soldier’s transition into civilian life and to conduct job and house hunting activities in accordance with AR 600–8–10. Commanders must ensure that Soldiers have a need to either locate new housing or conduct job search activities during requested dates of transition PTDY. If neither of these activities is necessary then transition PTDY is not appropriate. PTDY is an authorization, not an entitlement, and must be approved by the Soldier’s chain of command.
b. Soldiers separating due to disability are authorized to sell back excess leave or to use accrued leave as transition leave.”

AR 635-8 6–5. “Soldier counseling
a. The Soldier’s chain of command will counsel the Soldier to determine the separation date and initiate DA Form 31 for PTDY and/or transition leave if requested. The separation date will normally be established within the timeframe provided by the USAPDA. It is the purview of the Soldier’s chain of command, in coordination with the transition center, to establish the separation date. Active separation processing begins as soon as final adjudication is completed. The period established by the USAPDA allows flexibility to assign a separation date based on the individual Soldier’s circumstances and affords the Soldier the opportunity to use any accrued leave or PTDY the Soldier is authorized. Regular Army Ser- vicemembers should depart the installation on PTDY and/or transition leave as soon as unit and installation clearance is completed.
b. Approval authority for transition leave that results in exceeding the “No Later Than Date,” as discussed in paragraph 6-3 is the first colonel/O–6 in the Soldier’s chain of command. When such leave is approved, the transition center will contact the USAPDA Chief, Retirements and Separations branch to coordinate the extension of the “No Later Than Date” at [email protected]

AR 635-8 6-5 “d. The commander will direct the Soldier to report to the transition center with copies of the counseling statement and DA Form 31, if requesting PTDY or transition leave, no later than 3 workdays after notification from the transition center. e. Prior to publication of separation orders, the transition center will print a copy of the USAPDA notification report contained in TRANSPROC. A copy of the USAPDA notification report and the Soldier’s counseling statement will be
maintained by the transition center as part of the DD Form 214 copy 8 file.”
Very helpful. Thanks. I am always amazed at the confusion about things that seem so routine. I am pretty sure you and I are not the first Soldiers to medically retire or separate at FSH (sarcasm). However, the amount of confusion and limited information makes it appear to the outsider that this is indeed the case.

Late yesterday afternoon I received notification from my Unit CoC that BDE leadership wants to meet with me today this afternoon. This information will be very helpful. I will also come with the justification I already laid out in other messages. BLUF: my excess leave is not due to me "hoarding" leave; rather from an overseas assignment (with limited time to take leave), MEB process, and then COVID. Two years worth of duty limiting assignments that have limited the use of my leave. If I am forced to have it paid out but at a discounted rate I feel this is a grave injustice.

I dunno what the meeting will be about. But another thing is I am amazed at how whatever the questions are is that I feel my leave request is being heavily scrutinized. Which amazes me. Do they not realize all I am doing is going by the guidance given by Finance, TransProc folks, and my Unit CoC? I actually did not come up with my leave form at all. Once I got placed on the TransProc list all I did is what we were counseled to do. Go to them, talk with Commander about final out date, get it back to us, etc. I have a great relationship with my COmmander, and it was them that recommended the extension after I asked about my options. I only knew about these options because TransProc folks and Finance said these are the things I can totally, and should ask for.

Anyways, thxs again. I likewise will return and report after my meeting with BDE Leadership today.
 
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