Anyone had their MEDCON orders backdated?

BoSox

PEB Forum Regular Member
I have been off orders since the end of September and continue to wait for AFRC/SG to make a decision on my case. I was told by SG that there was not enough "evidence" in my first submittal to support an "acute event" which triggered my injury so they simply dismissed my LOD. After a discussion with the IG, I was invited by the SG to resubmit with additional evidence. I have since resubmitted.

Here's my question; I am hearing from some folks that even when I get the "in the line of duty" determination and IF I get MEDCON orders, they will not be back dated to when my original orders ended (in my case the end of Sep)? That means no pay during the time it took SG to make a decision?

The AFI clearly states that if a member is on AD orders for more then 30 days and an injury occurs then the member's orders are extended.
How does AFRC get away with not paying us for the time we were awaiting their decision when the orders should be extended in the first place?

Anyone had any good or bad experiences with this?

Thanks.
 

rickman

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
BoSox - you know my predicament. Scott A1 said no to my orders because "a physical defect is not grounds to be continued on MEDCON orders". However, as you probably already know:

DoDI 1332.38 states:

E3.P2.7.2.1. Members of a Reserve component on active duty under a call to duty of
more than 30 days may continue disability evaluation upon release from active duty provided
they maintain a Ready Reserve status. However, they must sign a waiver declining retention on
active duty.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I did not sign a waiver and I have been assigned as a Code 37 profile since February 2011. Furthermore:

AFI 36-3212, 8.6.2 states:

8.6.2. ARC members who incur or aggravate an injury, illness or disease in the line of duty while on orders for more than 30 days are not involuntarily released from those orders until final disposition of their disability case. These members' entitlement to full pay and allowances and benefits continue to the same extent provided by law or regulation to regular component members
 

89Falcon

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
BoSox - you know my predicament. Scott A1 said no to my orders because "a physical defect is not grounds to be continued on MEDCON orders". However, as you probably already know:

DoDI 1332.38 states:

E3.P2.7.2.1. Members of a Reserve component on active duty under a call to duty of
more than 30 days may continue disability evaluation upon release from active duty provided
they maintain a Ready Reserve status. However, they must sign a waiver declining retention on
active duty.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I did not sign a waiver and I have been assigned as a Code 37 profile since February 2011. Furthermore:

AFI 36-3212, 8.6.2 states:

8.6.2. ARC members who incur or aggravate an injury, illness or disease in the line of duty while on orders for more than 30 days are not involuntarily released from those orders until final disposition of their disability case. These members' entitlement to full pay and allowances and benefits continue to the same extent provided by law or regulation to regular component members
Rick,
Start using their names....
Lt Col Roger Armbrister and Mr Michael Fedorsak are making a false official statement to you in an attempt to defraud you of a congressionally mandated benefit.

Honestly, there has to be dozens, if not hundreds of folks who have been stolen from by those individuals (as well as the illustrious, but now retired nurse Maj Carole Severan Kindred, IL RN license number 041237853). People need to be able to google the name when they have trouble with them, and find these threads......or if someone is looking for an employee who knows how to follow rules and laws, they can find the name of a potential employee here.....

My congressional came back from the AF after over 2 1/2 months.....the AF ACKNOWLEDGE I wasn't "fit for duty". There is no rule that prevents keeping you on orders until the LOD is complete....so they INTENTIONALLY let your orders lapse knowing the LOD will take over 6 months if you are an IMA....and then they'll claim you can't be brought back on orders without a FINAL LOD determination....which is false...and unless you have a permanent disability, chances are you will be healed by the time you come back.
 

Maxschnell

PEB Forum Regular Member
My orders were backdated 2 1/2 months (for ulcerative colitis). I asked 2Lt Whealton for some clarification and he gave me this response:

Normally AFMOA does not back date but it appears in this case they did,
therfore you should be getting some back pay.


My orders never got cut because my RMG Supt intervened, citing my new civilian job as evidence that I'm not debilitated therefore MEDCON orders are not justified.

This was 2Lt Whealton's response to my RMG Supt:

SMSgt Thomas is correct; MEDCON orders are for members that are debilitated
to the point they cannot perform their primary duties.


Since you were able to work in a civilian capacity then the Line of Duty is
sufficient to cover your medical entitlements.
If you have any work days missed due to health appointments then you may
file for incapacitation pay to cover your loss of wages.


I'm heading to the doctor this morning to find out how worse my condition has become. If I require surgery, I'll reapply for MEDCON orders.

Has anyone had any experience with reapplying for MEDCON orders?
 

Jason Perry

Benevolent Leader
Site Founder
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
SMSgt Thomas is correct; MEDCON orders are for members that are debilitated to the point they cannot perform their primary duties.
Since you were able to work in a civilian capacity then the Line of Duty is
sufficient to cover your medical entitlements.
If you have any work days missed due to health appointments then you may
file for incapacitation pay to cover your loss of wages.
Not sure if I am understanding the situation correctly, but if you never got backdated orders, were able to work in civilian job, but were unable to perform military duties, then you can still get INCAP pay for lost military duties. The fact of performing civilian work may factor into the calculation of entitlements, but it does not necessarily block entitlement to INCAP pay.
 

BoSox

PEB Forum Regular Member
My orders were backdated 2 1/2 months (for ulcerative colitis). I asked 2Lt Whealton for some clarification and he gave me this response:

Normally AFMOA does not back date but it appears in this case they did,
therfore you should be getting some back pay.


This is what I am hearing as well, AFMAOA does not backdate orders.

OK, how are they justifying AFI36-3004?
4.1. Continued on Active Duty. Members on active duty under Reserve Personnel Appropriation (RPA)
or Military Personnel Appropriation (MPA) orders for a specified period of 31 days or more are not involuntarily
released from their orders if they incur a line of duty medical condition. These members have
their orders extended until the medical condition is resolved or can no longer be materially improved by
further hospitalization or treatment, and the case has been processed and finalized through the disability
evaluation system (DES), or the medical condition has been determined not to be in the line of duty.

4.2. Elect to Leave Active Duty. Members on orders for 31 days or more, who would otherwise be
retained on orders due to an incapacitation, but elect to leave active duty, are entitled to incapacitation pay
and medical/dental treatment in military treatment facilities only for the line of duty medical/dental condition.
Members receiving incapacitation pay do not accrue points.
 

BoSox

PEB Forum Regular Member
I'm learning just enough to make a fool out of myself but.....

Can someone tell me if it's possible to request your Commander to initiate an Interim LOD Determination per AFI36-2910?

3.5.1. Interim Line of Duty Determination. The immediate commander may request the appointing authority issue an interim LOD determination if the informal or formal determination cannot be finalized within 7 days of notification, and it is possible the member requires continuing medical care or is entitled to incapacitation benefits. Do not make an interim LOD if there is clear and convincing evidence showing an EPTS condition or it appears that misconduct was the proximate cause of the illness, injury or disease.
3.5.1.1. The interim LOD is comprised of the completed medical portion of AF Form 348 which must contain a description of the member‟s illness, injury or disease, and the date it occurred, the commander‟s preliminary finding of the member‟s military status at the time the medical condition occurred, as well as the commander‟s signature. When requesting approval of an interim LOD the commander should explain the member‟s current military status and the reason for delay in processing the LOD determination.
3.5.1.2. The ARC/MPF forwards a copy of the approved interim LOD to the ARC medical unit for filing in the member‟s medical record and to ensure no disruption in the member‟s medical care.
3.5.2. Informal Determination. The commander will process the LOD determination as an informal determination unless a formal determination is required by paragraph 3.5.3.1
3.5.2.1. The commander investigates the circumstances of the case to determine if the member‟s injury, illness, disease, or cause of death:
3.5.2.1.1. Occurred while the member was absent without authority,
3.5.2.1.2. Was due to the member‟s own misconduct, or
3.5.2.1.3. Existed prior to the period of military service the member was performing at the time symptoms were exhibited and, if so, whether or not the medical condition was service aggravated.
3.5.2.2. If a preponderance of evidence does not support any of these circumstances, the commander finds the illness, injury, disease or death to be “In the Line of Duty.” He or she indicates this on the AF Form 348. See Attachment 2, Instructions, AF Form 348.

Wouldn't this allow the member to receive pay and medical benefits instead of being left out in the cold while AFRC/SG holds your case file in their que for months on end?
 

89Falcon

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
I'm learning just enough to make a fool out of myself but.....

Can someone tell me if it's possible to request your Commander to initiate an Interim LOD Determination per AFI36-2910?

3.5.1. Interim Line of Duty Determination. The immediate commander may request the appointing authority issue an interim LOD determination if the informal or formal determination cannot be finalized within 7 days of notification, and it is possible the member requires continuing medical care or is entitled to incapacitation benefits. Do not make an interim LOD if there is clear and convincing evidence showing an EPTS condition or it appears that misconduct was the proximate cause of the illness, injury or disease.
3.5.1.1. The interim LOD is comprised of the completed medical portion of AF Form 348 which must contain a description of the member‟s illness, injury or disease, and the date it occurred, the commander‟s preliminary finding of the member‟s military status at the time the medical condition occurred, as well as the commander‟s signature. When requesting approval of an interim LOD the commander should explain the member‟s current military status and the reason for delay in processing the LOD determination.
3.5.1.2. The ARC/MPF forwards a copy of the approved interim LOD to the ARC medical unit for filing in the member‟s medical record and to ensure no disruption in the member‟s medical care.
3.5.2. Informal Determination. The commander will process the LOD determination as an informal determination unless a formal determination is required by paragraph 3.5.3.1
3.5.2.1. The commander investigates the circumstances of the case to determine if the member‟s injury, illness, disease, or cause of death:
3.5.2.1.1. Occurred while the member was absent without authority,
3.5.2.1.2. Was due to the member‟s own misconduct, or
3.5.2.1.3. Existed prior to the period of military service the member was performing at the time symptoms were exhibited and, if so, whether or not the medical condition was service aggravated.
3.5.2.2. If a preponderance of evidence does not support any of these circumstances, the commander finds the illness, injury, disease or death to be “In the Line of Duty.” He or she indicates this on the AF Form 348. See Attachment 2, Instructions, AF Form 348.

Wouldn't this allow the member to receive pay and medical benefits instead of being left out in the cold while AFRC/SG holds your case file in their que for months on end?
Sox,

Check out DODI 1241.2:

6.4. Line of Duty Determination
6.4.1. Entitlement Prior to Line of Duty Determination. A Reserve component
member who incurs or aggravates an injury, illness, or disease while in a duty status
described in DoD Directive 1215.6 (reference (g)) is authorized medical/dental treatment
under 10 U.S.C. 1074 or 1074a (reference (b)), as applicable, and pay and allowances as
provided under Sections 204(g) or (h) of reference (c) while the line of duty
determination is being conducted. The line of duty findings will determine eligibility for
continued medical/dental care, and pay and allowances.

6.4.2. Interim Line of Duty Determination. Under regulations prescribed by
the Secretary concerned, an appropriate approving authority shall issue an interim line of
duty determination in sufficient time to ensure that pay and allowances will commence
within 30 days of the date that the injury, illness, or disease was reported, unless there is
clear and convincing evidence that the injury, illness, or disease was not incurred or
aggravated in a duty status described in DoD Directive 1215.6
(reference (g)) and not
covered under Sections 1074 or 1074a of reference (b) or Sections 204(g) or 204(h) of
reference (c), or was due to gross negligence or misconduct of the member.
 

xgijane

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
When it is determined that a MEB/PEB should have been held and wasn't, and I am no longer in the Guard, and they will be doing the whole process for unfit for duty for a medical retirement (I already have 100% VA Disability that was rated beginning 1 year after discharge), what status do they put me in? TDRL, Inactive Ready Reserve, Selected Reserve, Standby Reserve, or something else? I should have been placed on LOD while medical retirement was being determined because I became disabled during the last 6 months of my 20 years (disability found to be service-related while on active duty). I think that I am owed some time on orders(towards points), or backpay for that time frame for medical discharge, or severance, or they should change the start date on my VA claim. Anyone have any experience with retroactive LODs or MEBs? Sounds like the above reply indicates that they owe me pay and allowances from the date of injury until the date of LOD or medical retirement. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. So grateful for the above references.
 
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