C&P Exam has my ROM wrong!

B

Bertian

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Hello everyone,

I just received my C&P and NARSUM back and my 1 condition on the DOD side is my DDD. The doc at the QTC place wrote in for the ROM (Range of Motion) that my forward flexion is 80 out of 90. This measurement is not accurate at all. I cant flex more than 15 degrees or so and I did not bend even that far on the exam. I met with my PEBLO and the legal team and was informed that there is nothing we can do to fight this until the end of the process. I do not agree with the findings at all and am wondering if anyone on here has had the same issues and can provide me with some help. And the doc had the Gynomiter thingy to record the ROM.

I am at 16 years active service to our great nation and am now looking at a medical separation rather than a medical retirement. I have 23 other issues they are rating but the one that counts just flopped off the desk. The legal team did an estimate of my VA rating and stated it is at 80%.
 
I honestly think someone needs to make a documentary about this kind of stuff. Hidden camera showing the examiner purposely doing the wrong thing.
 
I felt so good about the exam too....I felt as if everything was going smoothly. Until I received the report and it said 80. I was simply floored. but yes I know they could make a good show lol. But they don't want this type of stuff to come out. These medical doctors act as if it is their money they are going to be giving to the Soldiers. I am by no means trying to fluff my injury, I just would like to have the accurate measurements recorded.
 
I'm going through the same thing with an MEB.

The VA rater physically lifted my arm. I havnet gotten the rating back yet but I imagine she screwed me out of a retirement.
 
TheChip said:
I'm going through the same thing with an MEB.

The VA rater physically lifted my arm. I havnet gotten the rating back yet but I imagine she screwed me out of a retirement.
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that was one thing my PEBLO told me is that the Doc was in no way able to touch you or assist with the movements. I hope you can fight it. If I was you I would try to make a complaint letter to turn over to the IDES folks stating that she assisted your movements by forcible motion. I made a letter for my concerns and asked for a re-evaluation but I am not holding my breath.
 
Bertian,

I am in the exact same boat as you, only I am at 15 years. I am on my 2nd PEB for my back and nerve damage down my left leg. At this C&P exam I was only about 3.5 months out from my last fusion surgery so I was still wearing my brace. After giving the examiner paperwork from my neurosurgeon stating that I was not to bend forward at all. I removed the brace and moved maybe 5-10 degrees forward. I was notified by my attorney that my C&P exam stated that I had 70-80 degrees of ROM. My attorney had me do a rebuttal to that. The rebuttal is conducted by another military doctor that has nothing to do with your case. This doesn't change your initial percentage that will be given to you by the VA. However, once you receive your findings from the IPEB it is the needed evidence to have a VA reconsideration for that specific claim. That will be conducted while you wait for your FPEB and hopefully get you to where you need to be for medical retirement.
 
I would recommend a VARR based on the ROM.
 
3529USMC said:
Bertian,

I am in the exact same boat as you, only I am at 15 years. I am on my 2nd PEB for my back and nerve damage down my left leg. At this C&P exam I was only about 3.5 months out from my last fusion surgery so I was still wearing my brace. After giving the examiner paperwork from my neurosurgeon stating that I was not to bend forward at all. I removed the brace and moved maybe 5-10 degrees forward. I was notified by my attorney that my C&P exam stated that I had 70-80 degrees of ROM. My attorney had me do a rebuttal to that. The rebuttal is conducted by another military doctor that has nothing to do with your case. This doesn't change your initial percentage that will be given to you by the VA. However, once you receive your findings from the IPEB it is the needed evidence to have a VA reconsideration for that specific claim. That will be conducted while you wait for your FPEB and hopefully get you to where you need to be for medical retirement.
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It is amazing on how many Soldiers have the same revolving issues with this process. I wish you the best of luck on yours. I am just worried about having to wait till the end to fight the messed up ROM.
 
Ask for a VARR.
 
chaplaincharlie said:
Ask for a VARR.
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I am going too, Thank you ALL for the help. Would that be towards the end of the process? Legal was saying we cant fight that until the end, after a rating is given. I am only on step 12 right now and were fighting to try and get PTSD added to the DoD side.
 
I know I am full of questions right now but I think that may be a good thing for me.

Would getting my PA to fill out a DBQ be a good choice or should I seek an outside source? I am assuming the DBQ would need to go with the VARR. Again as always thank you all for any input you may have, I am glad this site exists to help our brothers/sisters out when we need it the most.
 
Yes, you have to wait until your are presented with your ratings. Thank you tell the PEBLO you want to file a VARR.
 
I have a quick question. I received my VA ratings through the IDES/MEB program. I'm not satisfied with my percentage from the Army, and I want to file a VAAR. I initialed the form 5893 I think, that I didn't want to do the VAAR, but after reviewing everything I would definitely like to pursue one. I have new and very pertinent information to submit. I am being told by legal, that now I have to wait until my formal board appearance is over to request it. Wouldn't you want that done prior to going to the formal board appearance? Thanks for your help.
 
keimee04 said:
I have a quick question. I received my VA ratings through the IDES/MEB program. I'm not satisfied with my percentage from the Army, and I want to file a VAAR. I initialed the form 5893 I think, that I didn't want to do the VAAR, but after reviewing everything I would definitely like to pursue one. I have new and very pertinent information to submit. I am being told by legal, that now I have to wait until my formal board appearance is over to request it. Wouldn't you want that done prior to going to the formal board appearance? Thanks for your help.
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They do it that way to see if you get what you want from the formal board anyway basically. The VAAR is with the VA and the formal board is with DoD, so you always do the VA requests after the formal board has been finalized.
 
DBQ was PURE GOLD in my case. Even though I can barely walk at times, and am extremely limited in what activities I can do the SHAMELESS C&P examiner wrote "No Pain, No Limitations, Full Range of Motion". On advice of Jason Perry I had a DBQ done by my treating Orthopedic Surgeon, and my ratings went from 10% to 80%.

I would strongly suggest you download the DBQ for your condition from the VA website, hand the HARD COPY (not electronic) to your own physician to fill out. Then GET THE HARD COPY BACK from your physician, DON'T LET THEM SEND IT DIRECTLY BACK TO THE VA (like the VA wants).

This way you will have ample time to review it for accuracy and take it back to your physician for any items that need to be clarified or corrected BEFORE the VA gets a chance to enter it into their system for record. Also, if you give the DBQ back to the VA before the initial PEB findings, they might just say "it was ALREADY taken into consideration" and try to deny its RE-use in a VARR.

When you get your initial PEB findings (which will be low-balled thanks to the faulty C&P exam), you can and should request a VARR in conjunction with a PEB appeal. I opted for a FORMAL PEB appeal, and as soon as the PEB got the VARR results they offered me a MUCH better outcome without the Formal Hearing. I think if you ask for an INFORMAL PEB appeal, it gives them an opportunity to brush off your concerns and give you a LOWER rating outcome.

Hope this helps...
 
FloridaInjuredInCombat said:
DBQ was PURE GOLD in my case. Even though I can barely walk at times, and am extremely limited in what activities I can do the SHAMELESS C&P examiner wrote "No Pain, No Limitations, Full Range of Motion". On advice of Jason Perry I had a DBQ done by my treating Orthopedic Surgeon, and my ratings went from 10% to 80%.

I would strongly suggest you download the DBQ for your condition from the VA website, hand the HARD COPY (not electronic) to your own physician to fill out. Then GET THE HARD COPY BACK from your physician, DON'T LET THEM SEND IT DIRECTLY BACK TO THE VA (like the VA wants).

This way you will have ample time to review it for accuracy and take it back to your physician for any items that need to be clarified or corrected BEFORE the VA gets a chance to enter it into their system for record. Also, if you give the DBQ back to the VA before the initial PEB findings, they might just say "it was ALREADY taken into consideration" and try to deny its RE-use in a VARR.

When you get your initial PEB findings (which will be low-balled thanks to the faulty C&P exam), you can and should request a VARR in conjunction with a PEB appeal. I opted for a FORMAL PEB appeal, and as soon as the PEB got the VARR results they offered me a MUCH better outcome without the Formal Hearing. I think if you ask for an INFORMAL PEB appeal, it gives them an opportunity to brush off your concerns and give you a LOWER rating outcome.

Hope this helps...
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My PCM and other doctors have told me they need a “VA referral” to have authorization to do anything ROM related, but how am I even supposed to get that done? I feel like I’m screwed by my C&P Exam
 
Are you still in the military? If so, the MILITARY not the VA has responsibility for your care. The day you are discharged the VA takes over, till then you should not need a VA referral for squat. If you're talking about getting a DBQ filled out, take it OUTSIDE of the military system to a Civilian doctor and get it done, even if that means an out of pocket expense. If you've got Tricare Standard you should (I believe) be able to do that without a PCM referral, if you've got Tricare Prime and your PCM doesn't want to sign off on the referral, you can still go on your own accord to an outside doctor to get the DBQ done, though Tricare might only cover at the Tricare Standard rates, meaning some out of pocket costs. You've got to ask yourself, will you care about having to spend a few extra dollars now to get the DBQ, or being stuck with a crappy C&P tanked rating for life? Asking the VA to give you a referral to get a DBQ is like asking a mugger to give you taxi fare to the Police station.
 
FloridaInjuredInCombat said:
Are you still in the military? If so, the MILITARY not the VA has responsibility for your care. The day you are discharged the VA takes over, till then you should not need a VA referral for squat. If you're talking about getting a DBQ filled out, take it OUTSIDE of the military system to a Civilian doctor and get it done, even if that means an out of pocket expense. If you've got Tricare Standard you should (I believe) be able to do that without a PCM referral, if you've got Tricare Prime and your PCM doesn't want to sign off on the referral, you can still go on your own accord to an outside doctor to get the DBQ done, though Tricare might only cover at the Tricare Standard rates, meaning some out of pocket costs. You've got to ask yourself, will you care about having to spend a few extra dollars now to get the DBQ, or being stuck with a crappy C&P tanked rating for life? Asking the VA to give you a referral to get a DBQ is like asking a mugger to give you taxi fare to the Police station.
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Well the chiropractor and other places I go to say they don’t “participate” in DBQ’s since they view it as “for disability”. That’s usually the questions , “is it for disability?” I saw it’s for the “VA” and they give me the door. I had an appointment for the chiropractor to give me a ROM test then he said it’s for disability and they would need a VA referral. So as of right now, I’m stuck with a bad C&P exam..I’m out of options. My PCM doesn’t wanna help, he said he NEEDS a referral from the MEB provider. My PEBLO said they don’t do that. So now I’m stuck.
* Updated: I called a Local civilian Chiropractor and just asked for a measured ROM using the VA required tools and they DO use them. But they did seem wondering why an Active Duty member would want outside help..I just said my PCM didn’t have the tools and they adviced me that I would have to go to an outside source. They would test my ROM and do it 3 times, measured. But it wouldn’t be on a DBQ, once I mention DBQ they all scatter like bugs. But just asking for a measured ROM for my own documentation since my PCM can’t, they seem to be okay with it but it’ll be like a medical document on their behalf showing my ROM not on a DBQ. I hope that works. My Legal counsel said any ROM should be enough to work.. I just hope that’s right, they said they’ve done it before.
 
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