Can i be demoted for PT failure while going through an MEB?

crome45

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That's what is most common. Did you receive a LOR for your PT test? That is usually what happens first as a warning. Then a retape after 3 months. Then an article 15 and demotion for the 4th failure. So hopefully they will take your last passing score an MEB into consideration an just give you an LOR and you'll have 3 months to finish your MEB or lose the weight you need to. And if you do end up getting a demotion, it might change your rank on your new blue ID card when this is all done and said, but I believe your Dod pay is based on the average of your last 3 years of pay. And they can not administratively discharge you with a MEB pending for the PT test...

Did you receive a DoD rating yet?
READ this AFI36-2905, it will put to bed the myth about the demotion, it is illegal to demote an Airmen who is on a MEB status profile.
You are correct and another factual based information for Airmen who are on a current profile and MEB status are excempt from the take the FA. Google and research the following Air Force Instruction, AFI36-2905, Chapter 9. Administrative and Personnel Actions Sections, 9.1.1.1 and 9.1.1.2. It is in black and white. I hope that this information and documented resource is helpful. Make a copy of the AFI36-2905, Chapter 9 and sections that apply and carry it in your pocket at all time to educate your unit and other Airmen.

Crome45
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porto

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Even if on the same profile that says I'm clear to do push ups and sit ups, also states I'm undergoing an me? I don't understand why I would be made to take the test regardless, ugh! Reading this afi asap, thank you for the post Crome45, it gives me something to work with!
 

crome45

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Porto, you are very welcome. Yes, please read the AFI36-2905 Chapter 9, 9.1.1.1 and 9.1.1.2. Please ensure that you have a current medical profile Form 422/469 indicating that you are currently going through a MEB, Medical Evalution Board. Lastly this AFI is the Fitness standards program. Remember that pushups and situp my not be enough to pass the fitness test or obtain a pass score.
 

crome45

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I got your last post about your on a MEB. Read my last post. Google the AFI36-2905, continue to educate other Airmen about the same if they are on a MEB as well.

crome45
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crome45

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Let me say this after my posting of the AFI36-2905, Chapter 9. Administrative and Personnel Action, 9.1.1.1 Prohibited Actions. I totally buy into the entire fitness program but there is a need to be objective to the entire process for which Airmen want to be success. I love being healthy and fit but my all medical and treatments should be first and foremost. First, for those members who are not on a MEB and do not have any medical conditions that prevent them from performing and passing the AF Fitness test. But it is simple and common sense as well...those individual Airmen who are on a MEB are being medical treated and diagnosed with a medical condition. We should continue to support those Airmen going through a medical evaluation board and get the back or assist them into civilian life without overlooking their safety and health needs just to perform a fitness test to meet some stands. In other words, let them heel up and get better. Remember the AF preach and holds SAFETY, SAFETY, SAFETY IN EVERYTHING WE DO AND to a higher standard.

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AmyGallay

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To All Airmen" Please Read" AFI36-2905 Chapter 9, Administrative and Personnel Actions. Section 9.1.1.1 "Commanders may not impose nonjudicial punishment (Article 15, UCMJ) soley for failing to achieve a Satisfactory fitness score. 9.1.1.2 Upon receipt of a Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) permament excemption, a member is not subject to adverse personnel action for inability to take the FA."
This is saying they cannot have retribution for what the member is already exempt for, not for the other items they are not on profile for.

Be careful too because the first line states you cannot have nonjudicial punishment for SOLEY failing a pt test. The commander will clump it together with not being able to fulfill your duties as an NCO, therefore should not hold that rank. This is what I have most seen happen.

Volunteer go to the HAWK and have them put you on the weight program. They will give you a diet, allow you to do pt through them everyday during duty hours. It'll show you are trying your hardest. I have seen Commanders see their troops do this and they give them extensions because they are doing everything in their power and are having improvments. Good luck!
 

crome45

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This is saying they cannot have retribution for what the member is already exempt for, not for the other items they are not on profile for.

Be careful too because the first line states you cannot have nonjudicial punishment for SOLEY failing a pt test. The commander will clump it together with not being able to fulfill your duties as an NCO, therefore should not hold that rank. This is what I have most seen happen.

Volunteer go to the HAWK and have them put you on the weight program. They will give you a diet, allow you to do pt through them everyday during duty hours. It'll show you are trying your hardest. I have seen Commanders see their troops do this and they give them extensions because they are doing everything in their power and are having improvments. Good luck!
I agree with you somewhat but the AFI that I indicate if for the entire Air Force Fitness Program. It does say anything about fulfilling any duties as a NCO. This is a AFI regulation to those members who are on a MEDICAL EVALUATION BOARD, not someone struggling with the PT test or weight issues. You point is well taken

Crome45
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crome45

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This is saying they cannot have retribution for what the member is already exempt for, not for the other items they are not on profile for.

Be careful too because the first line states you cannot have nonjudicial punishment for SOLEY failing a pt test. The commander will clump it together with not being able to fulfill your duties as an NCO, therefore should not hold that rank. This is what I have most seen happen.

Volunteer go to the HAWK and have them put you on the weight program. They will give you a diet, allow you to do pt through them everyday during duty hours. It'll show you are trying your hardest. I have seen Commanders see their troops do this and they give them extensions because they are doing everything in their power and are having improvments. Good luck!
It doesn't say anything about fulfilling any duties as a NCO. Sorry for typo...fat finger the key board...:)
 

crome45

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This is saying they cannot have retribution for what the member is already exempt for, not for the other items they are not on profile for.

Be careful too because the first line states you cannot have nonjudicial punishment for SOLEY failing a pt test. The commander will clump it together with not being able to fulfill your duties as an NCO, therefore should not hold that rank. This is what I have most seen happen.

Volunteer go to the HAWK and have them put you on the weight program. They will give you a diet, allow you to do pt through them everyday during duty hours. It'll show you are trying your hardest. I have seen Commanders see their troops do this and they give them extensions because they are doing everything in their power and are having improvments. Good luck!
Hint" the words Permament Execemption is what is means...EXCEMPTION is not permitted to do something. i.e. Fitness Test/Fitness Assessment.
 

AmyGallay

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It doesn't say anything about fulfilling any duties as a NCO. Sorry for typo...fat finger the key board...:)
I know it doesn't.

I am informing you about how the commanders work around it. This is what I have most commonly seen.

They will say your leadership skills are in question because you are setting a bad example for your troops, no deployable, not exercise ready. Therefore, unbecoming of an NCO.

I can read, thank you. I'm not arguing about the AFI. I used to be a Unit PTL, I know it very well. I am just telling you how they work around the part I quoted. I'm not saying I agree with what they do either. Just wanted you all to know.
 

porto

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That would be the loop hole im worried about, and why even though i read the regs, i posted on this forum anyway :( Amy was stationed where i am now, and knows what im talking about, because what she says is exactly what i forsee happening. fore warned is fore armed! ( my spelling is not the greatest when i take my meds, so appologize). but thank you all who have posted here so far, at least im not alone in this, and the happy light is waiting at the end of this MEB tunnel :)
 

crome45

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I know it doesn't.

I am informing you about how the commanders work around it. This is what I have most commonly seen.

They will say your leadership skills are in question because you are setting a bad example for your troops, no deployable, not exercise ready. Therefore, unbecoming of an NCO.

I can read, thank you. I'm not arguing about the AFI. I used to be a Unit PTL, I know it very well. I am just telling you how they work around the part I quoted. I'm not saying I agree with what they do either. Just wanted you all to know.
You made your point and so did I. :)
 

crome45

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That would be the loop hole im worried about, and why even though i read the regs, i posted on this forum anyway :( Amy was stationed where i am now, and knows what im talking about, because what she says is exactly what i forsee happening. fore warned is fore armed! ( my spelling is not the greatest when i take my meds, so appologize). but thank you all who have posted here so far, at least im not alone in this, and the happy light is waiting at the end of this MEB tunnel :)
Porto, Thanks for the comments and good luck with your MEB. I am hoping mine is completed soon. Good Luck.

crome45
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AmyGallay

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Yes, but the info you are trying to tell everyone is not correct. Have you seen this reg EVER be used in the way you are stating? And aren't you a Marine?
 

pittpan2005

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There are the regulations and then there are the realities.

1."Commanders may not impose nonjudicial punishment (Article 15, UCMJ) soley for failing to achieve a Satisfactory fitness score." This is specific!! Relates to NJP and fitness score. Not very protective.

2. Upon receipt of a Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) permament excemption, a member is not subject to adverse personnel action for inability to take the FA. This is specific again!! Requires a permanent exemption, which happens infrequently, and protections are in place AFTER the profile is granted.

The reality is many commands attempt demotions/separations for a variety of reasons while someone is pending or in process of an MEB. Whether the process has officially begun can have a big impact.
 

crome45

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There are the regulations and then there are the realities.

1."Commanders may not impose nonjudicial punishment (Article 15, UCMJ) soley for failing to achieve a Satisfactory fitness score." This is specific!! Relates to NJP and fitness score. Not very protective.

2. Upon receipt of a Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) permament excemption, a member is not subject to adverse personnel action for inability to take the FA. This is specific again!! Requires a permanent exemption, which happens infrequently, and protections are in place AFTER the profile is granted.

The reality is many commands attempt demotions/separations for a variety of reasons while someone is pending or in process of an MEB. Whether the process has officially begun can have a big impact.
I understand your comments but the permanent exemption is for the those Airmen who are going through and are on a MEB...not the final ending part of an MEB. I have been on a MEB for almost one year. I do understand and get the point about reality. So true, but as of today I have news on my filed IG complaint. Update information for you...as of today, I heard back on the IG complaint (IG Office). They are working the issue and also it was submitted to EEOC for their investigation as well. This is regarding the rank demotion and the LOR for not following alert recall procedures....but keep in mind...our unit doesn't have any written established alert recall procedures. But I wanted to share this update information with you. After filling the IG complaint, the acting person (Capt) told me after reviewing all documents, he believe that I have some valid claims and evidence to support an investigation. But I wanted to share this updated information with you.

Thank you
Crome45
Semper Fi...

Crome45
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pittpan2005

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Crome,
Glad your IG is moving. Hopefully something good comes from it.

As far as the MEB, I was not alluding to the fact of time/place in the process or whether MEB or PEB had been completed. Rather, that a permanent exemption had been granted. Without an exception the regulation doesn't apply.

Example: MEB is completed and service member is referred to PEB. Ten months later the IPEB results come in. Simply because the MEB referred the service member to the PEB does not mean a permanent exemption was granted. It is likely that the MEB placed some limitations, but not necessarily an FA exception.

There are protections that keep service members from being admin sep'd during the MEB to PEB process, but that is a separate issue than being discussed here.
 

AmyGallay

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There are the regulations and then there are the realities.

1."Commanders may not impose nonjudicial punishment (Article 15, UCMJ) soley for failing to achieve a Satisfactory fitness score." This is specific!! Relates to NJP and fitness score. Not very protective.

2. Upon receipt of a Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) permament excemption, a member is not subject to adverse personnel action for inability to take the FA. This is specific again!! Requires a permanent exemption, which happens infrequently, and protections are in place AFTER the profile is granted.

*and the perm. profile is not granted until a return to duty from an MEB

The reality is many commands attempt demotions/separations for a variety of reasons while someone is pending or in process of an MEB. Whether the process has officially begun can have a big impact.
Thank you. That was all I was trying to say. True, there are very infrequent permanent profiles. I usually only see them for those who only have a couple years until retirement and it does not affect their non-deployment jobs. Therefore, mostly top 3. E6-E9, or O5-7.

And these poor sevice members get stuck in their rank until retirement, because not completing all portions of the PT test makes you non promotable. I have read the reg and this part numerous times to help them when I accomplished their PHAs.
 

AmyGallay

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Crome,
Glad your IG is moving. Hopefully something good comes from it.

As far as the MEB, I was not alluding to the fact of time/place in the process or whether MEB or PEB had been completed. Rather, that a permanent exemption had been granted. Without an exception the regulation doesn't apply.

Example: MEB is completed and service member is referred to PEB. Ten months later the IPEB results come in. Simply because the MEB referred the service member to the PEB does not mean a permanent exemption was granted. It is likely that the MEB placed some limitations, but not necessarily an FA exception.

There are protections that keep service members from being admin sep'd during the MEB to PEB process, but that is a separate issue than being discussed here.
There are "protections that keep service members from being admin sep'd during the MEB to PEB process."

I was just trying to say this reg isn't the one to use to accomplish it.
 
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