Chapter While MEBing?

SSG_WTU

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I am a Cadre at an WTU and trying to research a current issue that we are having.....
We have a Reserve Warrior with 22 years in the Army. He recently received a DUI and the Company Commander is pushing for a Chapter on him. He is currently in the MEB process and his NCM is trying to push his paperwork through as fast as possible in order to go ahead and get him out of here so he can still receive his benefits and what not. Can he be chaptered out without receiving a full MEB? Can they stop the MEB process to chapter him out? He is a good Warrior that made a bad mistake but he has 22 years of good service in. Any help would be grea.
 
SSG_WTU,

Welcome! I appreciate the good leadership you are showing by getting educated on this subject.

Can you provide some more information? Was he given an Article 15 or convicted at court-martial or by civilian authorities for this DUI? If he was court-martialed, what was the sentence? Does he have previous misconduct (convictions, NJP, or letters of reprimand)? Do you know if the Commander is basing this on pattern of misconduct or commission of a serious offense? Was there any personal injury involved in the DUI? Does the Soldier suffer from PTSD or other mental disorders (including TBI)?
 
Jason,
Thanks for the welcome. This is a great forum and I have it saved as a favorite here at work. This will really come in handy when dealing with Warriors!
Okay the said Soldier was charged on the civillian side with a DUI/Suspended License/Open Container/ and Speeding. Soldier paid fine of $2,884 to bond out of jail. Soldier was in jail for 19 Days. Soldier has served in the Gulf War and is currently 20% disabled due to his back, which he did hurt in the Gulf War. He is a SSG with 8 years Active Duty, 5 years AGR, and the rest of his time is Reserve TPU. Warrior also has 3 honarable discharges to his credit. Right now Warrior is mobilized on active duty Reserve and had surgery on his neck to repair 2 discs. Warrior is currently going through a MEB Board. The Commander told Warrior he was going to recomend that he be chaptered out of the military. Warrior has 22 good years and is not eligiable to retire from the reserves. Warrior was diagnosied with PTSD in 2003 from the VA in Battle Creek, Michigan. Warrior has no Article 15's but does have a LOR for a Reckless driving in 2008. The Commander is basing this Chapter on the fact that this Warrior used to be a Cadre here at the WTU but due to all that was going on with that case he was removed from Cadre duty and made a Warrior. Just looking for some options on where this Warrior stands and if anything can be done to possibly help him out.
 
First off, this Soldier needs competent legal representation. I can't provide legal advice on the forum, but I can point out the rules governing separations.

Per AR 635-200,

"1–33. Disposition through medical channels
a. Except in separation actions under chapter 10 and as provided in para 1–34b, disposition through medical channels takes precedence over administrative separation processing.
b. When the medical treatment facility (MTF) commander or attending medical officer determines that a soldier being processed for administrative separation under chapters 7 (see sec IV), 14, or 15, does not meet the medical
fitness standards for retention (see AR 40–501, chap 3), he/she will refer the soldier to a Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) in accordance with AR 40–400. The administrative separation proceedings will continue, but final action by the separation authority will not be taken, pending the results of MEB.
(1) If the MEB findings indicate that referral of the case to a physical evaluation board (PEB) is warranted for disability processing under the provisions of AR 635–40, the MTF commander will furnish copies of the approved MEB proceedings to the soldier’s GCMCA and unit commander. The GCMCA may direct, in writing, that the soldier be processed through the physical disability system when action under the UCMJ has not been initiated, and one of the following has been determined:
(a) The soldier’s medical condition is the direct or substantial contributing cause of the conduct that led to the recommendation for administrative elimination.
(b) Other circumstances of the individual case warrant disability processing instead of further processing for administrative separation.
(2) The authority of the GCMCA to determine whether a case is to be processed through medical disability channels or under administrative separation provisions will not be delegated.
(3) The GCMCA’s signed decision to process a soldier through the physical disability system will be transmitted to the MTF commander as authority for referral of the case to a PEB.
(a) Copies of the GCMCA’s decision will be furnished to the unit commander and included in the administrative separation proceedings.
(b) The unit commander will suspend processing of the administrative separation action pending the PEB.
1. If the soldier is found physically fit, the administrative separation action will be resumed.
2. If the soldier is found physically unfit, the administrative separation action will be abated.
c. Disability processing is inappropriate if the conditions in b(1)(a) and (b) do not apply, if UCMJ action has been initiated, or if the soldier has been medically diagnosed as drug dependent. (See para 14–12c.) Accordingly, disability processing is inappropriate in separation actions under chapter 10."

This is not a perfect solution. The GCMCA can still separate after making a determination that the Soldier's condition was not "the direct or substantial contributing cause of the conduct that led to the recommendation for administrative elimination." I am currently representing a Soldier at the ABCMR where the GCMCA did not even address this issue, so there is always the risk that they will not process his case correctly.

Nonetheless, if his PTSD contributed to the DUI, this may be an avenue for getting his case disposed of through medical channels.

You said he is on bail. I assume this means he has not been convicted. Since separation for commission of a serious offense is a possible reason for separation if convicted, it is better if his civilian case is put off until after his (hopeful) disposition through medical channels.

I would also check on local withholding policies on dealing with misconduct by Senior NCO's (I am assuming he is an E-6 or above, which is the usual withholding threshold).

He has a lot of risk if they process him incorrectly and/or separate him. It is unfathomable to me that he should be separated at this point in his career for a first time DUI without personal injury involved. But I can't stress how important it is that he get the assistance of a good attorney. An assessment of the facts of his case is very important to navigating this process and it is not appropriate for me to provide legal advice on this forum. He needs to have the help of someone who has thoroughly reviewed his case and can provide him advice and assistance in fighting this.

I hope it works out well for him and if he wants to contact me, he can contact me via Private message or e-mail from my profile page. I would be glad to discuss any question he has.
 
Jason, thank you much for the info. This gives me a buidling block of where to start with atleast trying to offer this Warrior a little assistance. I will give him your contact info so that if he or his Lawyer has any questions. Again, THANKS!!!!!!!!
 
I am in a similar situation with a chapter for family care plan. I am in Michigan serving AGR tour. I am looking for a recommendation for MEB/PEB attorney, as I am about to enter that process. Thanks.
 
Also pending peb, awaiting va rating/ 199. I got a Charged with DWI this weekend and am wondering how this could affect by med board. Meb for PTSD, secondary TBI.
Thanks in advance.
I have hired a lawyer.
 
I recommend you remove your name from your signature, delete your post. Make a new screen name. PM sent.
 
I need help. I am in the MEB process. They are UCMJ 86 me. I have had trouble with medications. given to help what the VA now calls PTSD. I also loose time. the Doc ignores me on this.
I had quarters for 24 given at 1745 last night. I was in a tremendous amount of pain nauseated and took 2 pain meds staggered a bit with a anti nausea med and my adavent. To me 24 means 24 I was barley functioning. I still and struggling. I was up most of the night sick with pain dozing, I wasn't thinking as well as I am now. I thought I didn't have to report to work till WED. The form as I looked at tonight has no start time or stop. Nor a date. My discharge form only stated time discharged and follow up with a provider.
So I have a failure to report that I disagreed with on the counciling. The SGT insisted I must check agree. Although I was having trouble functioning I don't get bullied. I almost did.
Can this stop my MEB? I am in so much pain I can't rest. the meds robaxin tylonal 3 and adavant were and are in my system now. I have a history 6 months of being counseled for reactions to my medications. I have been yelled at and more. For things I cannot control. My shaking or jumping. How it interfers with work. I asked to be put in WTB 3 times. Because my work is affected cause it is still a fight to be functional. I have moments I don't know where I am at. DR say nothing. I had just asked the very SGT who started this to put me in WTB that I am not good.
I got told to hide pain. I can't. It is was to bad. I am nauseated with it.
Please help me fight this place. I have a tear in my shoulder and they say I refused surgery. They cancelled it 2 times.
they don't even believe the radiologist report that says it is a tear.
I have had my judgement and competence go off with my PTSD issues .
I asked to go to legal tomarrow bet they come up with an excuse not to let me go.
I am sorry if this is written badly I am having many issues.
VR
 
Also pending peb, awaiting va rating/ 199. I got a Charged with DWI this weekend and am wondering how this could affect by med board. Meb for PTSD, secondary TBI.
Thanks in advance.
I have hired a lawyer.
I hope all goes well for you. Cannt hurt for you to go to ASAP
 
I have a question for anyone who can answer, I'm going through an MEB right now, I'm waiting on an impartial review before it goes off to PEB. For the past year or so I have been taking pain meds because I have messed up discs in my back among other things; and this muscle relaxer dang near puts me to sleep. If it doesn't then I'm not good for much anyways, any how, my chain of command is pushing for a reduction in rank and a field grade on the basis that I'm a bad nco, or rather "uunbecoming of a noncommissioned officer". I have no prior ucmj, active duty 8 years, oh and I'm also on meds for ptsd, anxiety, and depression since 2012. I've never been counseled at this unit, save for 2 initial counselings; and the only negative counselings I got before this was because I couldn't locate keys to open a conex, and for not being able to find another nco so we could sign our ncoers at the same time. No lie I can not make this up. What can I do, or expect to happen?

Oh and if it helps, I've had multiple profiles from a psychiatrist that mention how my meds Jack me up on top of my p3 profile for back etc.
 
I have a question for anyone who can answer, I'm going through an MEB right now, I'm waiting on an impartial review before it goes off to PEB. For the past year or so I have been taking pain meds because I have messed up discs in my back among other things; and this muscle relaxer dang near puts me to sleep. If it doesn't then I'm not good for much anyways, any how, my chain of command is pushing for a reduction in rank and a field grade on the basis that I'm a bad nco, or rather "uunbecoming of a noncommissioned officer". I have no prior ucmj, active duty 8 years, oh and I'm also on meds for ptsd, anxiety, and depression since 2012. I've never been counseled at this unit, save for 2 initial counselings; and the only negative counselings I got before this was because I couldn't locate keys to open a conex, and for not being able to find another nco so we could sign our ncoers at the same time. No lie I can not make this up. What can I do, or expect to happen?

Oh and if it helps, I've had multiple profiles from a psychiatrist that mention how my meds Jack me up on top of my p3 profile for back etc.

Welcome to the PEB Forum! :)

Indeed, an unfortunate situation and I am sorry to hear that you are experiencing so much negative output as a direct result.

That said, I shall defer to @scoutCC, @gsfowler and/or other PEB Forum members who can potentially provide targeted feedback for your particular situation.

Nonetheless, of most importance in my opinion, never default acceptance to any injustices; fight then continue to fight some more until receipt of the deserved outcome(s) as supported via evidentiary documentation while in the DoD IDES and/or DoD LDES processes.

As such, take care and please continue to enjoy life despite being in your "temporary" situation!

Thus, I quite often comment that "possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer."

Best Wishes!
 
I have a question for anyone who can answer, I'm going through an MEB right now, I'm waiting on an impartial review before it goes off to PEB. For the past year or so I have been taking pain meds because I have messed up discs in my back among other things; and this muscle relaxer dang near puts me to sleep. If it doesn't then I'm not good for much anyways, any how, my chain of command is pushing for a reduction in rank and a field grade on the basis that I'm a bad nco, or rather "uunbecoming of a noncommissioned officer". I have no prior ucmj, active duty 8 years, oh and I'm also on meds for ptsd, anxiety, and depression since 2012. I've never been counseled at this unit, save for 2 initial counselings; and the only negative counselings I got before this was because I couldn't locate keys to open a conex, and for not being able to find another nco so we could sign our ncoers at the same time. No lie I can not make this up. What can I do, or expect to happen?

Oh and if it helps, I've had multiple profiles from a psychiatrist that mention how my meds Jack me up on top of my p3 profile for back etc.

First, see TDS/NLSO/ADC.

You should not "lose" this case. You may have to fight it (unfortunately, perhaps, past separation). But, given the lack of counselings, opportunity to "correct" your supposed deficiencies, etc., you should "win." Can't really help more just on a forum, but, I think you will/should not have a bad outcome.

Let us know any updates. I may be able to assist if things start to go really sideways.

Best of luck to you!
 
Afternoon, I am currently a SPC in the 7th SFG and just got custody of my two kids not even two weeks ago. sadly, this Monday I received a flag and a counseling stating I am being considered about being separated from the Army under Ch14-12c. The past 2 and a half years I have been going through hardship back to back. was sexually assaulted last year by a battle buddy, divorced my spouse due to adultery and DV on her part, fractured lowered back from a bad jump in Bragg, and to add, been diagnosed with depression, PTSD, anxiety, and am still going through my TBI case. Some of my buddies that are ODA here and family who are seniors up in Ft. Rucker mentioned that I should try to request an MEB so that it could possibly slow down the chapter and possibly be med boarded instead of kicked out. I am wondering if any one was to have some solid facts and advice on what I could do to help with my situation. Thanks
 
A MEB will not interrupt a chapter 14. Misconduct requires a separation board because it can come up with a less than honorable discharge. While it is possible for multiple reasons for separation to be considered and the most appropriate to be selected, this becomes quite hard for them to seriously look at with a misconduct because the entire proceeding has to follow the misconduct format. Hard to recommend a medical discharge when they don't have the authority, only the PEB does, to recommend that discharge. They could recommend retention and then allow the MEB to proceed though.

I believe this may not be true for certain examples of a chapter 14 that only authorize an honorable discharge. I.e. only problem is failing a single urinalysis. If they did a chapter 13, then the MEB and the chapter process would operate in parallel and the general would pick the most appropriate.

Source: DODI 1332.14

Best route to take when they are looking at a chapter 14 is probably the route your lawyer advises on. If the problem is linked to one of your conditions, getting that condition documented as needing a MEB I doubt would hurt your case.
 
I got knee surgery 5 months to repair my knee. This past weekend I was arrested for a dui and obstruction. I got a counseling recommending a GOMAR and I was flagged. No other consequences can be given until my civil case is closed. I meet with my surgeon this week to talk about med boarding me. Can I get med boarded while dealing this this. Anyone has advice?
 
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