Commander refusing to give LOD/National Guard State Active Duty/T32

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WL202

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What do you suggest if the commander states he can’t give an LOD? Fighting a battle for my husband with PTSD and I just can’t seem to get a straight answer, or any help from anyone. I thought we had a LOD, but it was a memorandum from Behavioral Health. :( @Guardguy11
 
WL202 said:
What do you suggest if the commander states he can’t give an LOD? Fighting a battle for my husband with PTSD and I just can’t seem to get a straight answer, or any help from anyone. I thought we had a LOD, but it was a memorandum from Behavioral Health. :( @Guardguy11
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Does he NEED and LOD?

If there was a deployment and medical documentation regarding treatment for PTSD for a deployment time the VA will work with him on it.
If you are still seeking an LOD...people don't always follow the rules. Perhaps use that documentation and refer him to the wounded warrior agency for whatever service he is in. They will consult with his doctor...decide to accept him and then your can somewhat pressure the commander to do the LOD. It's a round Robbin way to do it BUT it may save the political fight with the commander.
 
Long story short, yes. The “deployment” was riot control in Sept 2020. He was unaware that he was suffering from PTSD until the spring of 2021, when he had a manic episode, and got diagnosed with Bipolar disorder from a private psychiatrist. He then informed the guard who sent him to their behavioral health provider, who diagnosed him with PTSD in Oct 2021 From the Louisville riots.

We were told to file a workers comp claim due to him being on state active duty/T32. It was denied due to a KY law that prohibits PTSD without a physical injury. We had filed an intent to file VA claim in September when we knew he would be discharged at some point soon. He was discharged in January 2022, and the Army NG never addressed the PTSD, and the behavioral health provider told him in February he had been discharged. We then filed the VA claim. It was denied because they said his diagnoses did not happen while in service. (Bipolar, PTSD, GAD, panic disorder)

We used a VSO from Louisville, who was really no help at all. I called the KDVA this week for help with an appeal, and they stated he definitely needs a LOD to file a claim, that state orders absolutely need a LOD, that workers compensation is not the route we should have gone. So 9 months wasted I guess. He told them he had asked the Commander for a LOD, and he said they didn’t do those for state orders. I spoke to another NG member today from another state, and he agrees that we need a LOD. We spoke for 2 hours on the phone, and I’m pretty sure I know what to do now. But I think he still should be issued a LOD. We have proof that he was there, orders, homeland security ribbon, etc.

He has been seeing the psychiatrist for over a year now, and she’s been treating for Bipolar, and he isn’t seeming to get any better. We changed psychiatrists a few weeks ago, and she tells us that he isn’t being treating for the PTSD, which may be the issue at hand. It‘s been a hell of a year.
 
Jesusej19 said:
I’m sorry for what your husband is going through, but since it happened on state active duty orders, I’m pretty sure VA won’t approve it, since it’s not federal. Did you try to hire a lawyer ? I saw this online


VA Disability Benefits for National Guard and Reservists | PTSD Lawyers
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I have reached out to 3 different attorneys and they are “too busy”. I think that’s my sign. It’s a complicated situation that no one wants to deal with. The gentleman I spoke to today told me he absolutely would qualify for VA benefits if we can get the LOD, or convince the VA through DBQs and Nexus letters that the event happened and caused the PTSD. This man has helped several people with advice to file the claims correctly. He also told me that my husband should have been put on MEDCON orders when the PTSD was diagnosed. He wasn’t, even after he asked them about it. The people I spoke with yesterday were “officials”, and they told me after they did some research, that he would need the LOD to file the claim.

Also, thank you for the link. It‘s been a rollercoaster ride with different suggestions and answers at every turn.
 
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Oh man, well the good thing is your consistent and fighting for it. I wish both of you luck.
 
This really sucks and I'm sorry you guys are going through it. Title 32 orders are an absolute crap shoot. Here is a link to the Code of Federal Regulations for Title 32 orders - Federal Register :: Request Access

You will notice in that reading that it is buried inside of Army Guard and Reserves. You will also notice there isn't a whole lot listed here for LOD / Injury. What that means it it pushes the administration and regulation to the individual state that is ordering the member to service. Your state should still use AFI 36-2910 as template but since he wasn't on title 10 orders, it is going to be incredibly difficult to force their hand to give him an LOD.

Ultimately, it was the medical clinics role to give him an LOD, not his commander. His commander can certainly help push the situation along but that's not his role in the process. It sounds like his fight is at the medical level.

Bottom line, I would continue to try and find a lawyer because VA disability for this situation is life changing money. I know you are frustrated but you have to fight the fight to be made whole. It sucks. Keep us updated and don't hesitate to ask questions as you go through the process.
 
Guardguy11 said:
This really sucks and I'm sorry you guys are going through it. Title 32 orders are an absolute crap shoot. Here is a link to the Code of Federal Regulations for Title 32 orders - Federal Register :: Request Access

You will notice in that reading that it is buried inside of Army Guard and Reserves. You will also notice there isn't a whole lot listed here for LOD / Injury. What that means it it pushes the administration and regulation to the individual state that is ordering the member to service. Your state should still use AFI 36-2910 as template but since he wasn't on title 10 orders, it is going to be incredibly difficult to force their hand to give him an LOD.

Ultimately, it was the medical clinics role to give him an LOD, not his commander. His commander can certainly help push the situation along but that's not his role in the process. It sounds like his fight is at the medical level.

Bottom line, I would continue to try and find a lawyer because VA disability for this situation is life changing money. I know you are frustrated but you have to fight the fight to be made whole. It sucks. Keep us updated and don't hesitate to ask questions as you go through the process.
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Thank you! At this point, I feel so lost. From day one, we were told no LOD/incapacitation pay/etc for state active duty, then this past week, Ky Dept of VA tells us a LOD is absolutely the process. Like, who the heck do I fight?! LOL!!

The Army BH provider he saw was the one who told him to file for Workers Comp due to the state orders, that an LOD wasn‘t possible. He asked about it.

I re-read an email from the IG, and he stated that “The bottom line is for any type of military benefits your husband would require an LOD which can only be done when operating in a military pay status, not a state active duty pay status“. The first 2 days of his orders were T32, then they changed to State. So in other words, SUCKS TO SUCK! HE never received any type of exiting exam, or further instructions on what/how to get the PTSD treated. The past year has just been us trying to make it. The blind leading the blind.

The last bit of advice I got from the gentleman I mentioned above, is to get the nexus letter/DBQ questionnaire, and submit a supplemental claim and wait. He said we’d probably have to take it all the way to my husband speaking to the judge, so I’m sure it wont be anytime soon.

I’ll update if anything miraculous were to happen! Thanks for your advice, and the link.

I should also add, that currently, there is a congressional inquiry into his workers comp/VA denial cases. I had contacted a Senator here, that eventually found that it is a “state level”issue, and that his office could not help us, therefore his case was sent to the Governor’s office. Someone contacted us to get all the details, and he said he couldn”t tell me how long it would take. I’m waiting to see if anything comes from that, which I doubt (but fingers crossed the right thing is done), but in the meantime I’m trying to figure out how to continue if he‘s left out in the cold by our government.
 
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The congressional inquiry is back. Just as I figured, nada…

”Upon investigating your inquiry, the following information was determined by our personnel directorate: Since the Service Member was on State Active Duty (SAD), the PTSD claim cannot be worked through military medical actions such as a line of duty (LOD) investigation. Unfortunately, PTSD and other behavioral health issues are not currently covered by workers compensation in the state of Kentucky. Unless he discharged through the Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES) process and received a disability percentage, there is not much the KYARNG can do for Mr. X. Several of our local (KY) military associations have brought this issue up to our state legislature, in an effort to amend the KRS.”

He was not discharged through the IDES process.
 
WL202 said:
The congressional inquiry is back. Just as I figured, nada…

”Upon investigating your inquiry, the following information was determined by our personnel directorate: Since the Service Member was on State Active Duty (SAD), the PTSD claim cannot be worked through military medical actions such as a line of duty (LOD) investigation. Unfortunately, PTSD and other behavioral health issues are not currently covered by workers compensation in the state of Kentucky. Unless he discharged through the Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES) process and received a disability percentage, there is not much the KYARNG can do for Mr. X. Several of our local (KY) military associations have brought this issue up to our state legislature, in an effort to amend the KRS.”

He was not discharged through the IDES process.
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It sounds like he is screwed. I am very sorry to hear that! That's the one thing people don't think about when they join the Guard verse Reserves is being called up on State orders without the same protections afforded to those in the Reserves.
 
Provis said:
It sounds like he is screwed. I am very sorry to hear that! That's the one thing people don't think about when they join the Guard verse Reserves is being called up on State orders without the same protections afforded to those in the Reserves.
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You’re absolutley correct. He joined at 17, and was swayed away from AD to join the guard. He wanted to be deployed. That’s the heartbreaking part for him.
 
Small update…We got a call from a KY policy specialist (military affairs, I believe) and she asked us if my husband would be willing to come to Frankfort to testify in front of legislation regarding the law that has prevented him from getting treatment for the PTSD. We will definitely be going. They are proposing a change to that law that would allow an exception for police, firefighters, and EMTs/paramedic Who are experiencing PTSD to be covered. Soldiers are not currently on that list, but I have a feeling they will be soon, and hope that the law can be changed when they go back in session in January.
 
Newest update, I requested his medical records, and he screened positive for PTSD at the PHA following the riots. No one mentioned it to him, and they didnt even ask him all the questions required. That information would have been good to know when we ended up at the psychiatrist 6 months later. Instead, he was labeled Bipolar, PTSD never addressed, and discharged. At this point, I feel he was misdiagnosed, and should have never been discharged.
 
WL202 said:
Small update…We got a call from a KY policy specialist (military affairs, I believe) and she asked us if my husband would be willing to come to Frankfort to testify in front of legislation regarding the law that has prevented him from getting treatment for the PTSD. We will definitely be going. They are proposing a change to that law that would allow an exception for police, firefighters, and EMTs/paramedic Who are experiencing PTSD to be covered. Soldiers are not currently on that list, but I have a feeling they will be soon, and hope that the law can be changed when they go back in session in January.
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Did you guys go to testify yet or is this down the road a ways?
 
WL202 said:
What do you suggest if the commander states he can’t give an LOD? Fighting a battle for my husband with PTSD and I just can’t seem to get a straight answer, or any help from anyone. I thought we had a LOD, but it was a memorandum from Behavioral Health. :( @Guardguy11
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So while this whole thing sucks and is how the guard is, I offer some encouragement. If he is given a P3 profile and his unit refuses to do anything, he will be allowed to elect separation or doing a non-duty related PEB (NDR-PEB). This is absolutely an uphill battle. I myself am a guard member and went through this for back issues. After about 2 years of fighting here is what happened:

1) P3 profile
2) NDR-PEB initiated, state refused LOD
3) Spoke with provided attorney and provided all med documents
4) NDR-PEB convened twice
5) Added PTSD with NDR-PEB
6) NDR-PEB stated my back was not duty connected
7) Case elevated to Army HRC
8) Army HRC found back duty connected and forced state to issue LOD and sending me through MEB
 
WL202 said:
I finally convinced him to talk to these people on the phone. They can’t help because the stressor was on State Active Duty orders. :(
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WL202 said:
I finally convinced him to talk to these people on the phone. They can’t help because the stressor was on State Active Duty orders. :(
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If it happened on state active orders you won't get a LOD like they stated. That is one of the major downfalls of being in the Guard verse Reserves.
 
New Member said:
So while this whole thing sucks and is how the guard is, I offer some encouragement. If he is given a P3 profile and his unit refuses to do anything, he will be allowed to elect separation or doing a non-duty related PEB (NDR-PEB). This is absolutely an uphill battle. I myself am a guard member and went through this for back issues. After about 2 years of fighting here is what happened:

1) P3 profile
2) NDR-PEB initiated, state refused LOD
3) Spoke with provided attorney and provided all med documents
4) NDR-PEB convened twice
5) Added PTSD with NDR-PEB
6) NDR-PEB stated my back was not duty connected
7) Case elevated to Army HRC
8) Army HRC found back duty connected and forced state to issue LOD and sending me through MEB
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Thank you for sharing that with me! Unfortunately, since he was given a bipolar diagnosis last year, they ran with that, and discharged him with it. Since that diagnosis isn’t service connectable, we knew that we couldn’t fight it. What we did not know at that time, was that the workers comp claim would take forever to be addressed. I had to get IG involved before anything was done. BS!! He was discharged before they came back with a denial for the PTSD. We/I would have fought more if I had known that. As I stated before, we do not believe he has bipolar disorder, that he was in psychosis from PTSD. He signed the papers for separation because the way it was worded was that he pretty much had no chance to stay in. HE ABSOLUTELY LOVED BEING A SOLDIER!! His true purpose has been ripped away from him.
 
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