Does MEB overrule chapter?

Phoenix653

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My husband is not the greatest soilder.. he has had a history or misconduct, including three article 15. The most recent two are due to things he has done while under the influence, however it was an undetectable substance. He is in the process of MEB, we are just waiting on his percentages. Just last week he went on a downward spiral and ended up getting a DUI and went to jail but was released with no bail. This all happened off post. However I don't think that a drug test will show anything in his system due to the type of substance he was taking. His 1st sgt and commander says that they are going to do everything they can to get him out asap, can they give him a general discharge even though he is about to be out in a couple months for medical reasons? He was diagnosed with Bipolar last year and has had a hard time with finding the right medication. Is there anyways we could use the bipolar as a method to make this situation better in our favor?
Thanks in advance.
 

jahlon

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Nothing supersedes UCMJ action.

The location of the event is irrelevant.
 

jahlon

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Ok that's not what I asked.
Sorry I answered the question in your subject: Does MEB overrule chapter? No, a MEB does not overrule chapter.

Yes, the commander can work to take discharge actions. The fact that a MEB is in process does not bind a commanders hands. In fact, quite often a MEB can be just about to be ruled on, something happends, and a commander is sitting there with a MEB packet on the left side of his desk, an actionable file on the right side of his desk and has to make a decision.
 

ponch1313

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I agree with jahlon, it is up to the commander. Should the commander take the soldier medical history and current status into account when making a decision? YES, but most commanders will separated for the UCMJ violation in most cases with a General or Other Than Honorable discharge which can have some negative implications with VA benefits. The Discharge and Correction boards are available but from my experience these are an uphill fight. Maybe fight or ask for at least a General discharge, I would argue that his current medical conditions played a part in not making the best decisions.
 

mrando69

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It sounds like you may want to get him into some sort of substance abuse program.
 

Phoenix653

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Sorry I answered the question in your subject: Does MEB overrule chapter? No, a MEB does not overrule chapter.

Yes, the commander can work to take discharge actions. The fact that a MEB is in process does not bind a commanders hands. In fact, quite often a MEB can be just about to be ruled on, something happends, and a commander is sitting there with a MEB packet on the left side of his desk, an actionable file on the right side of his desk and has to make a decision.
Thank you! I get that answer!
 

Phoenix653

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Someone told us that in order to overrule the meb it needs to be taken up to the general and that unless he did something REALLY bad they wouldn't do that. So that information is wrong I'm taking it?
 

jahlon

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Whoever told you that was wrong.

A commander on G series orders has the authority to execute non-judicial punishment or to prefer charges to courts martial. Remember, its not overruling the MEB. The MEB is only final when the ink is dry and you are out. Until that moment you are subject to the UCMJ.

Yes, a DUI can go to courts martial. They usually do not because they are a lot of ass pain for everyone involved and they become not only career killers but also life killers, as the conviction is a conviction in federal court.

For the record, a DUI is usually seen as one of those "really" bad things and compounded by the three previous Article 15s that's going to make life difficult.

The only saving grace at this point would be for your husband to report to the mental health clinic and self refer for substance abuse prior to it being discovered randomly. Once its discovered by a means other than self-referral the entire deck of cards changes in the game.
 

pittpan2005

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My husband is not the greatest soilder.. he has had a history or misconduct, including three article 15. The most recent two are due to things he has done while under the influence, however it was an undetectable substance. He is in the process of MEB, we are just waiting on his percentages. Just last week he went on a downward spiral and ended up getting a DUI and went to jail but was released with no bail. This all happened off post. However I don't think that a drug test will show anything in his system due to the type of substance he was taking. His 1st sgt and commander says that they are going to do everything they can to get him out asap, can they give him a general discharge even though he is about to be out in a couple months for medical reasons? He was diagnosed with Bipolar last year and has had a hard time with finding the right medication. Is there anyways we could use the bipolar as a method to make this situation better in our favor?
Thanks in advance.
Generally, until they start with his admin separation process, his MEB/PEB process should not stop. Further, they should look to whether the medical conditions are the cause or contributing factor to the misconduct.
 

chaplaincharlie

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"(2) Soldiers under processing for an administrative separation for fraudulent enlistment or misconduct remain eligible to be referred to the MEB. The Soldier’s commander must notify the Soldier’s PEBLO in writing that administrative separation action has been initiated. The Soldier’s completed MEB must be referred to the Soldier’s General Court-martial Convening Authority (GCMCA) in accordance with AR 635–200 to determine whether the Soldier will be referred to the PEB. Approval and suspension of an AR 635–200 separation action is not authorized when the Soldier is pending both an AR 635–200 and AR 635–40 action. The GCMCA must decide which action to pursue (as described in AR 635–200). Soldiers continue to be eligible for these administrative separation actions up until the day of their separation or retirement for disability even though their PEB findings have been previously completed and approved by USAPDA for the SECARMY. In no case will a Soldier, being processed for an administrative separation for fraudulent enlistment or misconduct be discharged through the DES process without the approval of the GCMCA."

This is known as a withhold. Commanders subordinate to the GCMA may not discharge a soldier who is in the MEB process; BUT, the GCMA can discharge a soldier in the MEB process.
 

Schnoodle

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Really this is a legal question, you should consult your base JAG office for assistance. We can hear say all we want but that wont help what is happening. Talk to a lawyer.
 

yankeesdrums2

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My husband is not the greatest soilder.. he has had a history or misconduct, including three article 15. The most recent two are due to things he has done while under the influence, however it was an undetectable substance. He is in the process of MEB, we are just waiting on his percentages. Just last week he went on a downward spiral and ended up getting a DUI and went to jail but was released with no bail. This all happened off post. However I don't think that a drug test will show anything in his system due to the type of substance he was taking. His 1st sgt and commander says that they are going to do everything they can to get him out asap, can they give him a general discharge even though he is about to be out in a couple months for medical reasons? He was diagnosed with Bipolar last year and has had a hard time with finding the right medication. Is there anyways we could use the bipolar as a method to make this situation better in our favor?
Thanks in advance.
My PEBLO told me that any UCMJ will immediately pull you out of the MEB process and into the UCMJ process. He will have to contact his PEBLO and I do not believe the CoC can do anything but process him under UCMJ, or they will find themselves derelict in their duties and in favoritism.
 

AberrantOutlaw

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"(2) Soldiers under processing for an administrative separation for fraudulent enlistment or misconduct remain eligible to be referred to the MEB. The Soldier’s commander must notify the Soldier’s PEBLO in writing that administrative separation action has been initiated. The Soldier’s completed MEB must be referred to the Soldier’s General Court-martial Convening Authority (GCMCA) in accordance with AR 635–200 to determine whether the Soldier will be referred to the PEB. Approval and suspension of an AR 635–200 separation action is not authorized when the Soldier is pending both an AR 635–200 and AR 635–40 action. The GCMCA must decide which action to pursue (as described in AR 635–200). Soldiers continue to be eligible for these administrative separation actions up until the day of their separation or retirement for disability even though their PEB findings have been previously completed and approved by USAPDA for the SECARMY. In no case will a Soldier, being processed for an administrative separation for fraudulent enlistment or misconduct be discharged through the DES process without the approval of the GCMCA."

This is known as a withhold. Commanders subordinate to the GCMA may not discharge a soldier who is in the MEB process; BUT, the GCMA can discharge a soldier in the MEB process.
This is correct.

Normal practice for offender (who are referred to an MEB already) complete the chapter as if it going to the CG. It will sit and wait for the NARSUM and both packets will go before the GCMCA. At that point he/she will decide what happens. I have seen them go both ways. I have also seen them retracted after approval to complete the MEB due to further misconduct.

Disqualification from IDES is covered in DODi 1332.18

*this is not legal advice. seek qualified legal counsel for legal advice. Thoughts and opinions expressed in this post are that of my own and not representative of any groups I am associated with*
 

AaronJM1984

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The following is my opinion, skip ahead if you don't care to read it, however you did post on a public forum.

Your husband hasn't served "honorably". I understand no one is perfect but he's a repeat offender and having a diagnosis of bipolar or whatsoever does not excuse his behavior. Instead of trying to come out on top it sounds like he needs to be a MAN and accept the consequences for HIS ACTIONS and HIS CHOICES. I've had a diagnosis of chronic PTSD for 7 years now and you don't see me getting in trouble, have I had struggles...absolutely, but I am also an adult. He needs to learn. You don't learn by getting out of things.
 

jahlon

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My PEBLO told me that any UCMJ will immediately pull you out of the MEB process and into the UCMJ process. He will have to contact his PEBLO and I do not believe the CoC can do anything but process him under UCMJ, or they will find themselves derelict in their duties and in favoritism.
This is simply untrue. A commander's hands are never forced to do anything.

Two different people could both get DUIs on the same weekend, and one might be offered an article 15 and the other could go to courts martial. Extenuating circumstances are always a factor.
 

chaplaincharlie

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Really this is a legal question, you should consult your base JAG office for assistance. We can hear say all we want but that wont help what is happening. Talk to a lawyer.
It is really a procedural question, but I agree legal and procedural matters are best conducted offline with an attorney.
 
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