Eight year rule

Hawaii5-0

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
36-2910 indicates the amount of time they have to initiate and complete an LOD. IMO the LOD should have been imitated immediately. WHEN YOU REPORTED THE LUMP.


1.6.8. For ARC, in addition to the situations listed above, an LOD determination must be made when:
1.6.8.1. The member incurs or aggravates an illness, injury or disease, or receives ANY MEDICAL TREATMENT while serving in any duty status, regardless of the member’s ability to perform military duties;

2.2.2. Military Medical Provider. The military medical provider shall initiate and process an LOD determination WITHIN 5 working days of seeing a member and receiving supporting medical documentation under any of the circumstances outlined in para. 1.6.


Look up Table 2.1. Processing Timelines for LOD Determinations. To see ARC timelines.

They enter it into your medical record in HAIMS. See if you can have someone peek in there for you to see if the LOD is done.

I’m no attorney...I just know the first part of this process for AF ARC members very well.
 

chaplaincharlie

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Lifetime Supporter
Registered Member
This is no time to go cheap. What is a consult? A phone call or a deep dive into your case followed by a phone call?
 

Fishmom

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Just got officially notified NILOD-EPTS/not service aggravated. My commander had called to the final signator and asked "prior to what service?" And they 8nformd him that they consider "prior to service" to mean prior to my orders starting.
 

chaplaincharlie

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Lifetime Supporter
Registered Member
The usage of IRILO is very confusing. A RILO is used to monitor a member who has RTD after and MEB with limitations. In the AF potential MEB cases are monitored by the DAWG. That is often being referred to as an IRILO. It is an internal control mechanism in the MDG.

Your LOD is a no brainer. @gsfowler spelled out the terms of LOD while on AD. You appear to have met those conditions. That doesn't mean it will be processed correctly.

An alternative to getting an attorney would be to chat with a JAG. Show them the law and have them explain it to the decision authority. It is not that complicated, but....
 

Fishmom

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
The usage of IRILO is very confusing. A RILO is used to monitor a member who has RTD after and MEB with limitations. In the AF potential MEB cases are monitored by the DAWG. That is often being referred to as an IRILO. It is an internal control mechanism in the MDG.

Your LOD is a no brainer. @gsfowler spelled out the terms of LOD while on AD. You appear to have met those conditions. That doesn't mean it will be processed correctly.

An alternative to getting an attorney would be to chat with a JAG. Show them the law and have them explain it to the decision authority. It is not that complicated, but....
Every time something happens in this process that seems contrary to what I read I start to doubt myself. I know my mental acumen is not what it was before chemo so I just doubt myself.
 

Hawaii5-0

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I agree with chaplaincharlie here that it would be totally worth you reaching out to an attorney.

NILOD-
1)Absent without authority- Made after formal investigation
2)Due to Member’s misconduct
3)EPTS- Not service aggravated (EPTS-NSA)-made by clear and unmistakable evidence that condition was not caused or aggravated by service.

I have a colleague that’s on MEDCON still, who had a brain tumor while on orders dx two years ago. The story he told is that He pushed back with a copy of his birth certificate saying it couldn’t be congenital;). I’ll post back once i hear back from him...hopefully it will be something you can use. I am happy to hear they covered treatment.
 

Jason Perry

Benevolent Leader
Site Founder
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Just a quick note.

I am seeing a lot of cases and shenanigans about denial of favorable line of duty determinations (specifically, LOD determinations not following the presumptions). I am also seeing an "uptick" in Non-Duty Related referrals in Air Force and Navy cases (mainly for reserve component members).
 

Fishmom

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I agree with chaplaincharlie here that it would be totally worth you reaching out to an attorney.

NILOD-
1)Absent without authority- Made after formal investigation
2)Due to Member’s misconduct
3)EPTS- Not service aggravated (EPTS-NSA)-made by clear and unmistakable evidence that condition was not caused or aggravated by service.

I have a colleague that’s on MEDCON still, who had a brain tumor while on orders dx two years ago. The story he told is that He pushed back with a copy of his birth certificate saying it couldn’t be congenital;). I’ll post back once i hear back from him...hopefully it will be something you can use. I am happy to hear they covered treatment.
I had the genetic testing done to determine if I had the BRAC 1 or BRAC 2 genes and it came back negative. I also think they are misinterpreting prior to service to mean just prior to my mobilization.
 

chaplaincharlie

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Lifetime Supporter
Registered Member
@Fishmom
Going through a serious health issue weakens most people; both physically and mentally. Self doubt is just a symptom of the disease. As health begins to return those doubts will decline. The nice thing about this forum is you don't have to wonder alone.
 

chaplaincharlie

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Lifetime Supporter
Registered Member
Just a quick note.

I am seeing a lot of cases and shenanigans about denial of favorable line of duty determinations (specifically, LOD determinations not following the presumptions). I am also seeing an "uptick" in Non-Duty Related referrals in Air Force and Navy cases (mainly for reserve component members).
It is disheartening to read about decision makers in the MEB/PEB process who think they are advancing the cuase by sliming other service members.
 

Fishmom

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
So, while I was supposedly referred for MEB I guess my records were actually sent to the DAWG. And the LOD that they initiated was only an informal LOD. I was given a copy of the NARSUM which is one page and very, very brief. The Medical ART (SNCO) said that the DAWG will likely just return me to duty and I will not be entered into the IDES even though the 8-year rule applies. I asked her how I could assure that I was entered into IDES and she said she had no clue. Not very re-assuring.
 

flyin_dutchman

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I asked my medical people to clarify if my records were sent for MEB and was told that I am actual in the process of an IRILO and that when I went for my exam with the flight surgeon that they had already drafted the NARSUM for him to just sign. Maybe I am paranoid but that just doesn't seem right to me. Also, I still have not received official notification of the Line of Duty determination.
I have asked for an LOD (diagnosed by Flt Doc with MS 29 Dec 16 on an AD order) but was just told he said that I can't get an LOD for my MS because I have had it since birth? He initially wrote my NARSUM and it was worded very negative. I am not even sure where my "package" is at in the process? I have no help from my Medical SNCO or anyone here on base. My Commander is trying to help me, but the answers I get is that an LOD won't happpen? FRUSTRATED!
 

flyin_dutchman

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I have served 15 years on active duty and now 10 years Air Force Reserves. I was involuntarily mobilized Dec 2016 and deployed in Jan 2018. While deployed I noted a small lump in my breast. I didn't think it was anything serious until 3 months later it had tripled in size. I went to the clinic. It was evaluated with an ultrasound and determined that I needed medevac. June 2017 I was diagnosed with Stage 3a er/pr + HER- breast cancer. I was placed on Medcon for the duration of chemo and radiation but Medcon was terminated the last day of radiation. I am still waiting for the LOD determination to be completed but keep being told "it can't be ILOD because cancer is preexisting". However, doesn't the "eight year rule " apply to my circumstances?
I did 10 years Active duty and been if AF Res for 21 years. I have gained over 7305 AD points in PCARS. I asked but refused MedCon orders due to my MS is preexisting. The 8 years rule wouldn't apply to me, since I was at home on an AD order when diagnosed?
 

Fishmom

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
The 8 year rule will apply when referred for MEB. Your MS should be considered service connected during VA evaluation
 

flyin_dutchman

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I asked my medical people to clarify if my records were sent for MEB and was told that I am actual in the process of an IRILO and that when I went for my exam with the flight surgeon that they had already drafted the NARSUM for him to just sign. Maybe I am paranoid but that just doesn't seem right to me. Also, I still have not received official notification of the Line of Duty determination.
Fishmom - Do you have any new updates to provide? I am getting no where fast in my case. I have been on orders (lucky) but told they will probably end 30 Nov? No budget.
I don't think you are being paranoid, you are like me and see that your case is not following the AFI guidance we read. I am also searching for information, including LOD initiation, notification or determination which no one at my Med unit can answer? It appears the folks who are handling our cases are not very educated on how it is supposed to flow (timeline, governing rules, processes, etc.) I have been going for almost two years (in Dec) and have no clue what is going on with relevance to how my case is moving, where it's at? I am getting frustrated, but I think that's the norm, and it's up to us to persevere through the B.S. and come out of this with proper handling of our cases.
 

chaplaincharlie

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Lifetime Supporter
Registered Member
The AF throws the term IRILO around in a confusing manner. As used in the context, it is the DAWGS way of determining if an MEB should be started.
 

Fishmom

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Fishmom - Do you have any new updates to provide? I am getting no where fast in my case. I have been on orders (lucky) but told they will probably end 30 Nov? No budget.
I don't think you are being paranoid, you are like me and see that your case is not following the AFI guidance we read. I am also searching for information, including LOD initiation, notification or determination which no one at my Med unit can answer? It appears the folks who are handling our cases are not very educated on how it is supposed to flow (timeline, governing rules, processes, etc.) I have been going for almost two years (in Dec) and have no clue what is going on with relevance to how my case is moving, where it's at? I am getting frustrated, but I think that's the norm, and it's up to us to persevere through the B.S. and come out of this with proper handling of our cases.
So, I just spoke with my commander yesterday. They LOD Program manager, who is located in the MPF, guided him through initiating the LOD Appeal in the computer system used to track it. So, my appeal has official started makin its way through the wickets again.
 

Guardguy11

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
New to the site and late to the game, but can you provide an update on your case?
 
data-matched-content-ui-type="image_stacked" data-matched-content-rows-num="3" data-matched-content-columns-num="1" data-ad-format="autorelaxed">
Top