FOUND FIT THREE TIMES.....now what?

concernedwife

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#1
here is the original post regarding my husband's situation - i have been keeping up with the thread and updating it as we have gone along in this entire process.

http://pebforum.com/threads/found-fit-for-duty-now-contesting-help.43067/

SHORT STORY:

husband was referred to MEB
went up for MEB and found FIT due to past evals
contested and asked for a FPEB
granted FPEB
went to FPEB with new medical evidence, new non-medical evidence, new statement from chief and command, neuro, doctors, me [spouse] and co-workers.
found FIT at FPEB due to past evals.
was told by lawyer this was baffling, he needed to submit a PFR [petition for relief]
petition for relief came back denied - found FIT again, due to past evals

i am asking for help in understanding this - and also doing a little bit of venting, so please nobody take this the wrong way. i am in NO WAY stating my husband's condition is better or worse than ANYONE's. please know my questions and venting merely stem from concern.

my husband has been suffering with severe, chronic [daily] migraines for over seven years now. he has gone to countless doctors, ER visits, neurologists, pain psychologists and even lost his eyesight for 16 days because of one of the 13-14 medications he has been placed on like a guinea pig over the past several years. they have done scans, MRI, CATSCAN, X-RAY, bloodwork.....i could go on.

but because my husband isn't a slacker [not saying people who are found UNFIT are slackers - again, this is just what we have been told, not our words], he is being found FIT. and not to take away from my husband's accomplishments [because he will tell you the same thing] he isn't at the largest command, either. they are basing their decision off of his past evals and the fact that he made junior sailor of the quarter and year at his small command almost two years ago. again.....almost two years ago.

there has got to be something we can do. his FPEB was all over the place, and he felt they were more focused on figuring out what he was going to be doing when he left the military. they asked him about linkedin pages and whether he had been offered a position outside of the military - which he obviously has not and he doesn't have any linkedin page, either. is there something we can do from here? going to the board of corrections of medical records, or whatever it is, sounds like it would do nothing for him other than take out things that have happened to him, medically. and that is something we do not want at this time.

it pains me - makes me sick, whatever - to see a 30 year old give nine years of his life to the military and suffer to the point of now severe depression. he puts on a brave face at his command but is unable to do so when at home. the botox that has somewhat helped is now starting to not work as well due to building a tolerance to it. at 30 years old.......going to a pain psychologist and being on 4-5 daily medicatiions on top of botox injections every three months....but this is normal to the military?

is this normal for the navy/military?
is there something else we can do?
his neuro said he will be putting him back up for another medboard in six months, because he says in no way shape or form should my husband be serving - is there something he needs to do more that he hasn't this last time around? [we feel that he has done every thing, as do the lawyers and PEBLOs and doctors]
is there something, as a spouse, i can be doing to help him with his being depressed from the constant pain he is in? [he will be making an appointment to see someone - just asking for advice that can come as assistance to me]

thank you if you made it this far.
 

concernedwife

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#3
He stated something about the BCNR (I could be saying that wrong) but, not sure why my husband would want medical stuff taken off his record.

Other than that, we are being told to wait another six months. We’ve also contacted a lawyer (owner of this board) but have had no response. (I’m sure he’s super busy)
 

chaplaincharlie

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#4
@Jason Perry is usually very busy, but he will get in contact with you. Listen to your attorney and never hold back on your attorney, lay it all out.

I would recommend you keep a daily journal. When the migraine began, what treatment was taken, was the treatment successful (or not). If not, what was tried. Log if the migraine was prostrating or not. Write if he was able to function at work or not. Write the journal in VA lingo. This is the ling found in the CFR
1531070133096.png


Since the VA uses the terms "month" write something like X (1st - 30th) migraine in July 2018. Then start your count over the next month. Be sure to note if it was prostrating. Be sure to not if you are unable to work that day......

Does he call in sick every time he has a migraine?

Does he regularly use medical resources for his migraines?

Best wishes.
Mike
 

concernedwife

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#5
thanks for your response.

his neurologist suggested a MEB 17 months before he was even put up for one, because my husband said "lets try every thing before we go that route" - and once they reached the end of the line, medication wise, that is when he was finally put up for the MEB. the migraine journal did nothing for him. well, we were told it would do nothing for him. we will be taking more journaling of these episodes this go around.

he cannot call in sick for migraines, but is regularly sent home and it is all document in his medical documents as well as his NMA, statements from command, neuro and doctors. according to his medical documents and command statement - he is missing 30-40% of his time at the command because of his condition.

as far as medications go, yes, he uses medical resources for his migraines. it's all that he can do. the only issue we have come into - is that his PCM will not see him every time he has a migraine since she referred him to a neurologist and she states that the neurologist is the only one to see him for it. his neuro is backed up and he is only able to get an appointment with him every three months for his botox injections. [his next appointment is in a few weeks, but he has been trying to get in by calling every day to see if there is an opening.

not sure if this helps at all, but we are also stationed at the largest naval station in the world - so it makes sense that the neuro is always booked solid.
 

concernedwife

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#7
Just curious what their justification is for finding him fit other than good evals?
1. he made junior sailor of the quarter and went up for junior sailor of the year [automatically up for it when you make quarter] and made it two years ago.
2. good evals
3. OH, they did say that he was okay because four years ago, he was able to make it through an entire deployment.


that's literally all they put. i would feel so much better answering this question if there were more to it, but there honestly was not. not that we saw. so we asked the lawyer and he said the same thing. the lawyer is pretty much left speechless as well.
 

concernedwife

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#8
i should also mention that he is unable to re-enlist because of this, has been deemed non-deployable, and unable to advance. he has 27 months left in his contract.

pretty much put at a stop loss, career wise - but they find him FIT. even the lawyer tried to argue in the petition for relief that it makes no sense that his findings [FIT] came back from the PEB and FPEB where the board members statements for their findings states he clearly is suffering and has horrible migraines that occur as frequent as they do, as evidenced in his medical documents......so why do this to him?
 

18c_Gunslinger

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#9
You have every right to be frustrated, I would be pissed. It’s bullshit some of the garbage I’ve seen the army find unfit. One of our support guys shit his pants once on deployment and told the doc that he has had stomach problems for years and was immediately put in the meb and was permanently medically retired. He went to the va exam and gave them his log showing how frequent his bathroom problems are and also a bullshit letter from his wife saying that they can’t have sex because he can’t control his bowels. It was all a scam and he bragged about taking advantage of the system. It’s funny because he is now a rater for the va claims.

Hang in there, you still have options.
 

concernedwife

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#10
You have every right to be frustrated, I would be pissed. It’s bullshit some of the garbage I’ve seen the army find unfit. One of our support guys shit his pants once on deployment and told the doc that he has had stomach problems for years and was immediately put in the meb and was permanently medically retired. He went to the va exam and gave them his log showing how frequent his bathroom problems are and also a bullshit letter from his wife saying that they can’t have sex because he can’t control his bowels. It was all a scam and he bragged about taking advantage of the system. It’s funny because he is now a rater for the va claims.

Hang in there, you still have options.
before i deleted my facebook page, i was in a few groups and saw people say they were "going to a psychiatrist and telling them they were depressed, because the military wasn't for them" and several months later? they were out. LITERALLY playing the system.

but a service member with SEVEN YEARS of medical documents stating he is in dibilitating pain gets told to stay in - but guess what? you can't do anything while in. just sit there in pain. no advancing, no re-enlisting...nothing. touche. HA! [that was me letting my anger out, sorry]
 

oddpedestrian

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#13
I understand your frustration people just go to behavioral health and break down crying next thing you know they are getting permanently retired with three years in or less, but I guess the service cant call them bluff because of the high rate of suicides and therapist/doctor don't want one under their watch.
 

concernedwife

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#14
Completely understand that, and as I said before: not downplaying it disfounting ANY THING anyone on this board (or otherwise) goes through. It just angers me to have seen on social media where people literally play the system and are able to get out to “focus on their health”. Meanwhile, in Norfolk....because my husbands command had some nice things to say about him in past Evals (does anyone get bad evals? I honestly don’t know the answer to that question) my husband gets to try his hardest to make it through another day. Makes total sense. I love the logic of the military.

There. I said it.
 

Cj4n

Registered Member
#15
Completely understand that, and as I said before: not downplaying it disfounting ANY THING anyone on this board (or otherwise) goes through. It just angers me to have seen on social media where people literally play the system and are able to get out to “focus on their health”. Meanwhile, in Norfolk....because my husbands command had some nice things to say about him in past Evals (does anyone get bad evals? I honestly don’t know the answer to that question) my husband gets to try his hardest to make it through another day. Makes total sense. I love the logic of the military.

There. I said it.
I can’t say much other then sorry for the craziness and frustration! My husband is currently going through the MEB process and it is ridiculous at some points and we get frustrated thinking about the jackoffs we know who scammed the system and got out with benefits for life and we’ll be lucky for getting separation with severance which we should apparently be grateful for because you know a few bucks now is way better then the health insurance the others get for life for their ‘issues’. People who have real issues seem to have to fight for everything they get and some just skate by -irritating!
 

gsfowler

Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
#16
here is the original post regarding my husband's situation - i have been keeping up with the thread and updating it as we have gone along in this entire process.

http://pebforum.com/threads/found-fit-for-duty-now-contesting-help.43067/

SHORT STORY:

husband was referred to MEB
went up for MEB and found FIT due to past evals
contested and asked for a FPEB
granted FPEB
went to FPEB with new medical evidence, new non-medical evidence, new statement from chief and command, neuro, doctors, me [spouse] and co-workers.
found FIT at FPEB due to past evals.
was told by lawyer this was baffling, he needed to submit a PFR [petition for relief]
petition for relief came back denied - found FIT again, due to past evals

i am asking for help in understanding this - and also doing a little bit of venting, so please nobody take this the wrong way. i am in NO WAY stating my husband's condition is better or worse than ANYONE's. please know my questions and venting merely stem from concern.

my husband has been suffering with severe, chronic [daily] migraines for over seven years now. he has gone to countless doctors, ER visits, neurologists, pain psychologists and even lost his eyesight for 16 days because of one of the 13-14 medications he has been placed on like a guinea pig over the past several years. they have done scans, MRI, CATSCAN, X-RAY, bloodwork.....i could go on.

but because my husband isn't a slacker [not saying people who are found UNFIT are slackers - again, this is just what we have been told, not our words], he is being found FIT. and not to take away from my husband's accomplishments [because he will tell you the same thing] he isn't at the largest command, either. they are basing their decision off of his past evals and the fact that he made junior sailor of the quarter and year at his small command almost two years ago. again.....almost two years ago.

there has got to be something we can do. his FPEB was all over the place, and he felt they were more focused on figuring out what he was going to be doing when he left the military. they asked him about linkedin pages and whether he had been offered a position outside of the military - which he obviously has not and he doesn't have any linkedin page, either. is there something we can do from here? going to the board of corrections of medical records, or whatever it is, sounds like it would do nothing for him other than take out things that have happened to him, medically. and that is something we do not want at this time.

it pains me - makes me sick, whatever - to see a 30 year old give nine years of his life to the military and suffer to the point of now severe depression. he puts on a brave face at his command but is unable to do so when at home. the botox that has somewhat helped is now starting to not work as well due to building a tolerance to it. at 30 years old.......going to a pain psychologist and being on 4-5 daily medicatiions on top of botox injections every three months....but this is normal to the military?

is this normal for the navy/military?
is there something else we can do?
his neuro said he will be putting him back up for another medboard in six months, because he says in no way shape or form should my husband be serving - is there something he needs to do more that he hasn't this last time around? [we feel that he has done every thing, as do the lawyers and PEBLOs and doctors]
is there something, as a spouse, i can be doing to help him with his being depressed from the constant pain he is in? [he will be making an appointment to see someone - just asking for advice that can come as assistance to me]

thank you if you made it this far.
I'm going to put this out, it may not be the most politically correct thought, but is one facet you may want to examine.

How would you define your husbands participation in the MEB process? So far, as I can tell, you have mostly shared your thoughts on what has happened during the IDES.

Has he attended all of the briefings? How well has he communicated with his superiors, as well as his counsel? Does he even understand the process and what he needs to do to obtain a successful outcome.

We all appreciate you sharing the story, however this may be the time where you step back, hire an attorney and let them take it from here.

I work in an area in the DoD where decisions are made whether or not service members are chosen for assignment based upon any health concerns with family members. I can tell you for absolute certain, that when military spouses get involved, the outcome is not always as favorable as they would like it to be. All to often, the involvement of a military spouse will affect the judgment of those who are making the decisions.
 

concernedwife

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#17
thanks for your input - let me respond as best as i can.

How would you define your husbands participation in the MEB process? So far, as I can tell, you have mostly shared your thoughts on what has happened during the IDES.

my husband's participation in the MEB process has been 100%. me typing on this forum about my feelings and asking questions has not effected him in any way, other than taking it off of his back from doing so, so that he could focus on the MEB process, appointments, emails, phone calls, etc. with the exception of this post? the majority of my posts have been asking questions so that he doesn't have to come on here and stare at a screen, which makes his migraines worse. he knows what i post - when i post - because the majority of the things i have posted have been the things he has asked me to so he doesn't have to trigger another migraine [or make one worse] by sitting at the computer screen. [his referring condition are migraines]

Has he attended all of the briefings? How well has he communicated with his superiors, as well as his counsel? Does he even understand the process and what he needs to do to obtain a successful outcome.

he has attended all of his briefings as well as the TAPS class and there were a few others that were "optional" that he still attended because he felt it would assist in furthering his education on this entire process. as far as his communication with superiors, he is far beyond most lucky to have the command that he does. he has been upfront since the day he got there almost three years ago - and they have helped him throughout this entire process. if anything, they have gone above and beyond their means to make sure he got the help he has needed. not only with doctors [appointments, schedules, SIQ, time off, etc.] but also throughout the MEB with any and all statements that would help his case. as far as how vocal he has been with counsel? he was very vocal with his lawyer/counsel as well as PEBLO. he did have a few issues with the PEBLO, where they didn't respond to much of his reaching out, due to them being "criminally overworked" and unfortunately understaffed. as far as understanding the process and what he needed to obtain? yes. we were actually told by the PEBLO **AND** lawyer that he went above and beyond when it came to what he needed.

We all appreciate you sharing the story, however this may be the time where you step back, hire an attorney and let them take it from here.

as far as me taking a step back? that won't happen. i do not speak to anyone but my husband and the folks here on the forum. i have never once spoken to his PEBLO, command, lawyer...nobody. again, except for the people/members on this board. i will say it again as i have said a million times over - if nobody else will fight for my husband, then i will. maybe i was misinformed, but i was under the impression that this forum/site was created for people who had questions. with that being said, know that 95% of the questions asked here by my screen name are ones my husband has had me ask. there have been a few, here and there, where i have asked out of my own curiosity.

as far as hiring an attorney - we cannot afford most, from what we are seeing on their websites, etc. however, his parents have offered to cover those fees, which we would hate to even have them do this - but it would help if lawyers contacted us back. that has also been a stopping point for us. plus, that is why we are here asking what we are. what can he do? anything at all now that the process is over? nobody has answered that, that i can see.

I work in an area in the DoD where decisions are made whether or not service members are chosen for assignment based upon any health concerns with family members. I can tell you for absolute certain, that when military spouses get involved, the outcome is not always as favorable as they would like it to be. All to often, the involvement of a military spouse will affect the judgment of those who are making the decisions.

as far as me being involved and it effecting the board's decision? i am not sure how i have been involved in any of this, other than being the composer of posts on this forum. is me posting on this forum effecting him, negatively? [i am not being condescending asking that - i am honestly curious] like i stated above, other than the statement his FPEB lawyer asked him to relay to me to compose for the board, none of these people even know i exist. once again, i've never spoken to his command, PEBLO, lawyer, nobody. is something i am doing effecting his outcome? should i stay off of this forum? [again, honestly asking here]

thanks for all of your help, and i hope i answered this clearly enough to not come off as rude - only concerned [now] that you're saying my "involvement" has effected their decision. if anything, that seems to be against the law. but i could be wrong. lord knows weirder things have popped up. :)
 

concernedwife

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#18
I can’t say much other then sorry for the craziness and frustration! My husband is currently going through the MEB process and it is ridiculous at some points and we get frustrated thinking about the jackoffs we know who scammed the system and got out with benefits for life and we’ll be lucky for getting separation with severance which we should apparently be grateful for because you know a few bucks now is way better then the health insurance the others get for life for their ‘issues’. People who have real issues seem to have to fight for everything they get and some just skate by -irritating!
sorry to hear you all are going through the same, but happy to see another spouse on here advocating as much as they can for their husband/service member. throughout the entire process, my husband made sure to let any and every body know that he wasn't out to get the highest ratings ever - if he were to have received a sevarance and pat on the back? he would have been fine with that - to which his PEBLO and lawyer commended him for. the only thing he would not accept was an admin sep. not after all he has done, it wouldn't have been warranted.
 

Warrior644

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#19
Indeed, I am all too familiar with "fighting" (e.g., appealing) unfavorable decisions which I thought were absolutely incorrect as based upon all available medical evidence and/or medical documentation while in the DoD IDES (for 618 days), on DoD TDRL via DoD LDES PEB (for 4+ years), and with the DoVA VBA (for 3+ years). Fortunately, justice was finally served at the end so it was well-worth the fight at least in my experienced opinion!

Nonetheless, maybe continuing the fight with a seasoned IDES civilian attorney is warranted at this particular point in time to exhaust any potential other legal options until the very end!

Bottom line, if there isn't any fight/appeal (by whomever) then the problem/concern/issue is automatically lost and a potential resolution can never be achieved; that's a fact! To any extent, I hope that your husband eventually receive a favorable outcome at the final conclusion of the DoD IDES process. Take care!

Thus, I quite often comment that "possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer!"

Best Wishes!
 

concernedwife

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#20
Thank you! It looks as if a civilian lawyer is warranted at this time. Just unsure if we need to wait to do this, or have him go through the MEB again in six months. (His neurologist says he will be putting him back up if the migraines persist as frequently as they have)
 
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