I wonder how many National Guard members are being screwed on Incap right now?

sbarq1

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I wish there was a way to reach out to all members of the National Guard on Incapacitation Pay. I haven't been paid anything since April 12th and my Commander can't even get the members in charge of this system to respond. Complete breakdown of the system. I just wonder how many of the 200+ members on Incap are getting screwed like me? Getting ready to call on a congressman.
I'm seriously disappointed.
 

Guardguy11

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I have a great civilian gig and thought about doing INCAP versus MEDCON but my unit medical manager said that INCAP was a mistake because of all of the layers of crap you have to go through. It seems pretty cut and dry in the AFI but in typical AF fashion, we have turned it into a cluster. I have my own concerns about MEDCON as a whole and the grey area about what happens to a Guardsman in the Pre-IDES process, but it is still way better than INCAP if you can make it logistically work.
 

sbarq1

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You can only be on Medcon while under current medical treatment or therapy. Once the condition can't be materially made better they either return to duty or send to IDES. I was sent to IDES and asked to be retained on AD until final disposition but denied, so I'm in an Incap pay situation because I can't physically do what I used to do. Busted up shoulders and crippled right "dominant" hand. I'm getting paid 4 AD days a month w BAQ/BAS....about $800 and can't work so they are paying me less than what unemployment would pay me and they call that "CARING" for an injured member. I should be paid AD pay for the entire month like USC 37 states but they are using wording loopholes to shaft members and their families.
Gerald
 

Guardguy11

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That is exactly what almost happened to me. I finished my physical therapy for my shoulder and my heart stuff didn't count as restorative care. I had applied for a medcon extension due to my anxiety stuff but the appointments were 6 weeks apart and I was told "the extension is going to be denied". I went back to work and after about 1 1/2 weeks I got an e-mail from AFPC that said my extension had been approved!

I called the lady and she put me on hold for 15 minutes. When she came back on the line she said her boss approved it two levels up and never told anyone. Apparently he said it was stupid to deny it because I was obviously going into the DES and I met the 8-year rule. Two weeks later I was approved for the DES. I don't know who that "boss" is but I owe him a Christmas card. My whole situation would be different if I wasn't on orders right now.
 

Ocean

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Please reach out to MOAA and ROA, Congress..let them hear your voice....Medcom 12301(h) extension orders for Reserve Component soldiers across components debacle with Very little Congressional oversight in place. This is a National issue. Medcom regulations/policy are in place for all RC service members but not followed at many demob sites, States, or USAR units. For example, In 2014-2015 CA-ARNG had roughly 1800 (known) medically non deployable soldiers. Of that number i a handful were on INCAP and 2-3 were extended ( after a fight) on 12301(h) orders.
Pebforum has many RC service members across components discuss this issue..
The issues addressed today were discussed by the GAO to Congress in 2005, 2007, onward, Investigations only ruffle feathers, set fires then nothing changes...RC soldiers demobing from FT lewis 2008-2011 were denied 12301(h) orders and told to go home to the VA or home units to be taken care of... As late as 2018, RC units demobing out FT Bragg were fighting for extended 12301(h) orders. The number of families and RC soldiers who have lost a living wage, their homes, families are in the 100’s...Other RC soldiers ( if they have fight) left in them, and money, hire attny’s to seek justice for backdated 12301(h) orders through BCMR’s....and wait again for corrections another 6-7 yrs....Please let your voice be heard take a minute tell MOAA/ROA/Congress/ Armed Forces Committee hear and let them hear your voice....
 

Ocean

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Sorry for the long statement above but i want to make Correction, Regarding INCAP vs Medcom 12301(h) orders. I meant to say, the right course of action for a service member who is injured and has been on active duty 30 days or more... if at the end of those orders the service member requires continued medical care for unresolved medical issues then that soldier, (by regulation) Should be extended on Title 10, 12301(h) orders...INCAP is usually for a soldier injured during IDT, however a soldier injured on IDT can also be transferred to 12301(h) orders...Also, NGB created RCMC Title 10, 12301(h) orders for less serious injuries that are expected to be resolved within 179 days...but this has become a bureaucratic debacle...for home units and demob sites.
 

sbarq1

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Registered Member
Incap is actually for any member injured in the line of duty that has completed medical care and can not work due to injuries while waiting on separation, medical retirement, or return to duty per a med board. After 14 surgeries and all of my physical therapy was completed I was taken off of Medcon and placed on Incap while waiting for a decision from the med board. I still haven't received a penny of pay since April 12th as of today and doubt I will receive any pay in the next two weeks due to everyone enjoying the 4th of July and being "OFF". I swear no one really works in the offices that deal with paying people. I'm just done with the whole damned ordeal and want to be retired
 

Ocean

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your nightmare echo’s the same for many RC service members. If going through IDES/MEB, your medcom orders should have been extended until meb was decided..not placed on INCAP. Like i indicated previously, regulations are in place but not followed, and unfortunately the lack of accountability and bureaucracy in the process affects RC soldiers and families...
 

sbarq1

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Registered Member
I asked to remain on active duty orders until final disposition of my case and was denied. National guard members are screwed all the time when it comes to medical issues. Members aren't up to date on the regulations dealing with medical and a lot of unit personnel aren't up to date with them either. Throw in medical personnel that come and go or are cross trained and the member is always the one that is on the short end of the stick. An email was supposed to be sent to my unit this past week stating to pay me "x" amount. The person that is responsible for processing that email was out all week on vacation. Today was a "down" day so hopefully it can be dealt with in the am, if it was even sent from NGB. With my luck the pay personnel at my wing will probably be out for the week due to the 4th. I can't catch a break to save my butt. I've had to borrow money to fix my home a/c, truck a/c, had a water leak in my bathroom under the slab, and missed my own dad's funeral out of state due to not having any money to travel. All the while everyone in the chain from my unit to DC hasn't missed a lick doing anything and hasn't stressed one bit over me starving to death for months. When I say I'm done, I'm done. I feel that the entire system has failed me from start to finish and all because I was hurt doing my job 8,000 miles from home. Military bearing can just about kiss my @ss. Since 1991 I have never felt so let down by the Air Force and the Air National Guard.
 

sbarq1

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Filed a congressional today to see if we can get some help explicitly detailing how INCAP will be paid to guard and reservists of all branches. Hopefully DOD instructions and AFI's will be updated to include how to pay a member that was unemployed prior to a Line of Duty injury leaving the member disabled. I still haven't been paid since 12APR2019 while waiting on someone to make a decision. Problem is that no where does it state in black and white what to pay a member that was unemployed.
 

RonG

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Payment of Incapacitation Pay.

Reference: DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7A, Chapter 57 * October 2012
570507. Incapacitation Pay
Link to reference <—-

Excerpt follows:

In the case of a member who receives earned income from nonmilitary employment or self-employment performed in any month in which the member is otherwise entitled to pay and allowances under subparagraph 570507.

A,
the total pay and allowances shall be reduced by the amount of such income. Income from an income protection plan, vacation pay, or sick leave that the member elects to receive shall be considered earned income for the purpose of the preceding sentence.

B. A Reserve Component member who is physically able to perform his/her military duties, is entitled, upon request, to a portion of the monthly pay and allowances for each month for which the member demonstrates a loss of earned income from nonmilitary employment or self-employment as a result of an injury, illness, or disease incurred or aggravated as described in subparagraph 570507.A.

NOTE: The monthly entitlement may not exceed the member's demonstrated loss of earned income from nonmilitary or self-employment. In calculating such loss of income, income from
an income protection plan, vacation pay, or sick leave that the member elects to receive shall be considered earned income from nonmilitary or self-employment.

C. The total amount of pay and allowances paid under subparagraphs 570507.A and 570507.B for any period may not exceed the amount of pay and allowances provided by law or regulation for a member of a Regular Component of a uniformed service of corresponding grade and length of service for that period.

D. Pay and allowances may not be paid under subparagraphs 570507.A or 570507.B for a period of more than six months. The Secretary concerned may extend such period in any case if the Secretary determines that it is in the interests of fairness and equity to do so.

E. A member is not entitled to benefits under subparagraphs 570507.A and 570507.B if the injury, illness, disease, or aggravation of an injury, illness, or disease is the result

Ron
 

sbarq1

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Registered Member
Ron....
The problem is that I was unemployed prior to being deployed. I was paid full pay and allowances for the first twelve months. A pay guide was supposed to be sent out on 30APR2019 but apparently was never sent out. The powers to be are now saying that because I was unemployed, I had no loss of civilian income and therefore am possibly not owed any INCAP pay other than the missed UTA every month. No where in any DODI, AFI, or ANGI does it specifically state how exactly to pay a member that was unemployed prior to being injured on active duty. I can not do what I used to do for employment. ANGI 36-3001 which was rescinded specifically stated
If
And
And
Then
Member is not fit for military duty.
(See Note 2)
Incapacitation was in the Line of Duty for continuation on active duty.Member is able to perform civilian job; in full, part, or not at all or member was unemployed prior to LOD.Member is entitled under Title 37 USC 204(g) to full military pay and allowances less any earned civilian income, if unemployed prior to LOD, there is no earned civilian income, therefore member is entitled to full military pay and allowances. (See Note 1)

Of course when it was rescinded, nothing replaced these statements to specifically address my situation. I'm asking that the issue be addressed and specifically be placed into all instructions to include how to pay a member in my status.
 

RonG

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Hello sbarq1,

Full disclosure: I am not a reserve or medical retiree. Additionally, I never had the experience of paying Incapacitation Pay while on AD in the Army Finance Corps.

I can offer that in other pay matters, if the perceived entitlement is not addressed in law and regulation, it does not exist.

I wish you good luck and hope you are successful in your quest. Please continue to post your findings.

Regards,
Ron
 

sbarq1

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
yeah....This really only applies to guard and reserve members. Active duty personnel will never have these issues as that their pay will continue just as it always does until the member is separated or retired.
Barq's
 

Ocean

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Hi Sbarq1, You are better off on 12301(h) MEDCOM orders, notify ROA/MOAA ...please...let know know you need their help in translating this conundrum to your Command...
 
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