IPR accused for Milingering

gtvapsamtik

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Last monday I had send a request for IPR since my narsum said PTSD - single episode without psychotic features and Depression, While it should be PTSD CRONIC with PSYCHOTIC features. since this is what I got from 4 different civilian doctors.
My IPR (independant provider review)result came back since I was examined on thu and they made me take 2 hours long test on a computer and bubble test on a paper.
The new results which came back said and changed my records(narsum) from PTSD single episode and Depression to
Axix I : Malingering with adjustment disorder with mixed anxiety and depressed MOOD

I cant blieve I am being accused of malingering now, even tho I have been in hospitalized 4 times since January this year. My condirtion is severe enough that I am still attending outpatient PTSD program. Since I am unable to function on my own. My wife does most of my ADL excluds to make sure I take my meds. He is almost suggesting that I get chapter out of the army on (ch 5-17 or ch 14-12).

I talked to a lawyer at WTB and he said he cant believe they have totally made a mess of my narsum, it was supposed to be a simple IPR review of narsum. I provided my lawyer with 4 discharge summaries from 4 differnt hospitalization. All of my civilians docs gave me PTSD with major depression and with psychotic features.
I have been really stressed out ever since Ive heard this new, my sucicidal thoughts/racing thoughts have worsened. Any help regarding this matter should be helpful.
 

mike762414

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Wow, that really has spiraled out of control, I am at a loss for words on how this must be affecting you. I hope someone who knows the system better can give some good advice, I can't think of anything next.
 

UniformedSoldier

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I too am at a lost for words and I know the mess they are putting you through is only making your condition worse. There is no permanent solution to a temporary problem. Hang in there. I understand what you are going through. I have had my chain of command try and screw me over more ways than one! They tried that chapter 14-12 shit on me too. You have plenty of reasons to be upset but just try and talk to someone. You can message me for all I care but suicide isn't the answer. This site is full of people that are here for you
 

PtDraco

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Several soldiers I know, including myself, had the word 'malingering' written into our VA Neuropsych evals. I was SO pissed. I called the JAG and they said they are seeing an increase in that word. To make matters worse, the MEB doctor used that ONE test to write up my 3947. (I went thru 8 months of mTBI/PTSD eval and treatment!) I did a rebuttal and an addendum and they STILL would not change the wording. Therefore, I have requested a new neuropsych test by the military and will add those findings to my 199 appeal.

When I get my 199, I will be appealing and providing ADDITIONAL documentation, sworn statements, civilian doctors records for those conditions and some others. I can tell the MEB doc did not look at ANY of my 28 LODs, or she just ignored them. (The PEB actually kicked my packet back to the MEB and had them relook some of my records.) The response to the Informal board should be REAL interesting!!

Draco
 

nwlivewire

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PEB Forum Veteran
Several soldiers I know, including myself, had the word 'malingering' written into our VA Neuropsych evals. I was SO pissed. I called the JAG and they said they are seeing an increase in that word. To make matters worse, the MEB doctor used that ONE test to write up my 3947. (I went thru 8 months of mTBI/PTSD eval and treatment!) I did a rebuttal and an addendum and they STILL would not change the wording. Therefore, I have requested a new neuropsych test by the military and will add those findings to my 199 appeal.

When I get my 199, I will be appealing and providing ADDITIONAL documentation, sworn statements, civilian doctors records for those conditions and some others. I can tell the MEB doc did not look at ANY of my 28 LODs, or she just ignored them. (The PEB actually kicked my packet back to the MEB and had them relook some of my records.) The response to the Informal board should be REAL interesting!!

Draco
GIVE 'EM HELL!!!!

FIGHT - FIGHT - FIGHT.

This is just getting to be the most abusive area in Army BH medicine/IDES process EVER!

If the Army MMPI psych test evaluators don't accuse you of lying, they try the malingering accusation, or evident prior to service, or some other character asassination designation. GEEZ! Anything to avoid an accurate diagnosis that may happen to come with valid compensable rating.

I cannot help but be reminded of the troop surge where when we finally got a "kill sack" on a bunch of insurgents, but some were able to "squirt out" and re-nest in another area. The Army is doing the same thing to us! Squirting out of the real issues - failing to call things as they really are - and re-assigning decision-makers at the last minute to other locations where they continue to pull these stunts with impunity. It's just another variation on a theme - deny - deny - deny.

I don't know what this is going to take, but I sure hope it's not going to take a movie-theater massacre or some other horrible thing done repeated times. Isn't the suicide rate high enough already?

Please keep us posted Buddy - and fight for your right to be fairly and accurately diagnosed and rated.

V/r,
nwlivewire
 

Robert Albright

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PEB Forum Veteran
Last monday I had send a request for IPR since my narsum said PTSD - single episode without psychotic features and Depression, While it should be PTSD CRONIC with PSYCHOTIC features. since this is what I got from 4 different civilian doctors.
My IPR (independant provider review)result came back since I was examined on thu and they made me take 2 hours long test on a computer and bubble test on a paper.
The new results which came back said and changed my records(narsum) from PTSD single episode and Depression to
Axix I : Malingering with adjustment disorder with mixed anxiety and depressed MOOD

I cant blieve I am being accused of malingering now, even tho I have been in hospitalized 4 times since January this year. My condirtion is severe enough that I am still attending outpatient PTSD program. Since I am unable to function on my own. My wife does most of my ADL excluds to make sure I take my meds. He is almost suggesting that I get chapter out of the army on (ch 5-17 or ch 14-12).

I talked to a lawyer at WTB and he said he cant believe they have totally made a mess of my narsum, it was supposed to be a simple IPR review of narsum. I provided my lawyer with 4 discharge summaries from 4 differnt hospitalization. All of my civilians docs gave me PTSD with major depression and with psychotic features.
I have been really stressed out ever since Ive heard this new, my sucicidal thoughts/racing thoughts have worsened. Any help regarding this matter should be helpful.
Which post are you at? We had a similar problem at Ft. Lewis (JBLM). The Ombudsman reported back up to the Surgeon Generals Office what was happening. Surgeon General sent a special team to Ft Lewis to review the cases. Suggest you and all of you that have had their diagnosis reversed go see your Ombudsman. Here is a link to the article:

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2017346365_madiganreview27m.html
 

nwlivewire

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PEB Forum Veteran
Which post are you at? We had a similar problem at Ft. Lewis (JBLM). The Ombudsman reported back up to the Surgeon Generals Office what was happening. Surgeon General sent a special team to Ft Lewis to review the cases. Suggest you and all of you that have had their diagnosis reversed go see your Ombudsman. Here is a link to the article:

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2017346365_madiganreview27m.html
Dea Robert Albright:

I just PDRL'd mid-APR from JBLM. In AUG 2011, I faxed a scathing 12-page letter up and down my chain-of-command, my Congressmen, Senators, Ombudsman, my attorney - Sen. Patty Murray, the Senate Armed Services Committee - I mean everyone! 2 months later (OCT 2011), the SHTF at JBLM and some shrinks at JBLM are fired/removed from their positions/quit, and we get a BH fusion cell and it comes with Army shrinks from other locations to work at JBLM for awhile.

I was reassesed 30 days before discharge (had already gone through transitions/retirement & had my DD 214 with 70% PDRL for physical issues, but no BH issues). The fusion cell Doc still couldn't get my diagnosis right! While he at least hit the BH paper target, he still couldn't/wouldn't diagnose PTSD. Instead of the usual "Nothing wrong with you" (could be you're lying), they finally said, "Moderate Depression - SINGLE EPISODE". The fusion cell shrink STILL REFUSED to take a copy of civilian psych reports, treatment records, & VA diagnosis/treatment records. (I have been diagnosed with PTSD/Severe, MDD/Severe, and GAD by everyone BUT the ARMY! And what a fight I had to go through with the Army WTU/NCM just to get a diagnosis and treatment for these issues from 2009-2011, too). No wonder SMs implode and/or explode in deadly ways.

To this day, I question how a SM could take three, four, or five full-on MMPIs over the course of several YEARS and come out with a BH MMPI evaluator writing they could possibly be lying. The ARMY MMPI evaluator never flat-out called me a liar, just suggested I COULD be lying. Really? Almost 600 MMPI questions on each test, each test taken several times over several years, and that's all the Army could find out that is possibly wrong with me? A possible character flaw? Possible liar? What a bunch of horse feathers!

Since I already had my DD 214 with 70% PDRL, I finally gave up on the Army to get my BH issues accurately diagnosed. My PEBLO said even if they did add this Moderate Depression - SINGLE EPISODE - they would have to recall my entire case and start all over again AND I would probably get TDRL. So I declined that whole new deal and got out. PI$$ on em. 4 1/2 years of WTU/CB-WTU and for this crap - more crap - only to end up having to go through yet another year on this merry-go-round, and completely all over again with more crap? No thanks. I have my NG 20 year letter - so thank-you very much Army for all your "help".

My process was a fight-fight-fight- and all the way to my discharge date. And that was just for my physical issues as the Army kept saying I had no BH issues. Hell, I had to fight, fight, fight just to get the Army to diagnose and treat my physical issues correctly. I was just lucky enough to get to CB-WTU and get correctly diagnosed and treated by Civilian Docs. And it was a fight to finally get transfered to CB-WTU from being up at the Madigan WTU merry-go-round for my first year of my 4 1/2 years of pre-IDES/legacy/now IDES process.

I had to hire a private lawyer to help me out as I was too far away from JBLM JAG. But it was well worth it!

So give 'em hell! I sure hope the Army loses more of their unchecked ability to screw injured SMs over and that those who are selected and serve on these boards are made accountable for their decisions - decisions that ought to be based on the facts - not their personal judgments, assumptions, or "Doctor/God" or "Father Knows Best" decisions made outside of regulations/guidelines.

V/r,
nwlivewire
 

gsfowler

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Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Several soldiers I know, including myself, had the word 'malingering' written into our VA Neuropsych evals. I was SO pissed. I called the JAG and they said they are seeing an increase in that word. To make matters worse, the MEB doctor used that ONE test to write up my 3947. (I went thru 8 months of mTBI/PTSD eval and treatment!) I did a rebuttal and an addendum and they STILL would not change the wording. Therefore, I have requested a new neuropsych test by the military and will add those findings to my 199 appeal.

When I get my 199, I will be appealing and providing ADDITIONAL documentation, sworn statements, civilian doctors records for those conditions and some others. I can tell the MEB doc did not look at ANY of my 28 LODs, or she just ignored them. (The PEB actually kicked my packet back to the MEB and had them relook some of my records.) The response to the Informal board should be REAL interesting!!

Draco
Ironically enough I am in the same situation. JBLM Forensic Psych accused me of underperforming on the tests and called me a malingerer and stated the basis of my claims was for monetary gain. He then did all he could to discount the reports from my treatment and evaluation that has come from the VA through Tri-care. I have never tried to make any specific BH claims, but do suffer from TBI with cognitive deficits.

During my IPR, the physician acknowledged over the phone that many rate able conditions were left off and the memo was sent to my PEBLO.

What amazes me is that the medical opinion of the physicians at JBLM (during their only encounter with you) can be used to over ride the opinion of the professionals that have diagnosed and treated you for several years.

To me, it appears that the diagnosis are written in a manner (as well as the DA3947) to minimize the rating soldiers will receive during the MEB and put all of the burden on the soldier to do appeals and subsequently request a formal PEB.
 

nwlivewire

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PEB Forum Veteran
Ironically enough I am in the same situation. JBLM Forensic Psych accused me of underperforming on the tests and called me a malingerer and stated the basis of my claims was for monetary gain. He then did all he could to discount the reports from my treatment and evaluation that has come from the VA through Tri-care. I have never tried to make any specific BH claims, but do suffer from TBI with cognitive deficits.

During my IPR, the physician acknowledged over the phone that many rate able conditions were left off and the memo was sent to my PEBLO.

What amazes me is that the medical opinion of the physicians at JBLM (during their only encounter with you) can be used to over ride the opinion of the professionals that have diagnosed and treated you for several years.

To me, it appears that the diagnosis are written in a manner (as well as the DA3947) to minimize the rating soldiers will receive during the MEB and put all of the burden on the soldier to do appeals and subsequently request a formal PEB.
Unfortunately, that's my take on this "fair and just" system, too. Deny, delay, and/or make the SM pay for legal services (IF they can afford it) - then they do their damnest to dilute the outcome by whatever means necessary - even if FALSE and completely overrun with medical evidence from others outside of their power source.

The Army claims that they use the same DMS criteria as everyone else in getting to their version of an "accurate" BH diagnosis. But what they don't admit to is that they seem to INTERPRET that very same criteria differently than everyone else outside the Army BH realm. It seemed like my civilian BH Docs and the BH VA Docs were able to independently come to the same diagnosis without even having each other's records in hand to review, but the Army consistently came up with something totally different and still refused to accept outside BH records, too.

Fusion Cell or no Fusion Cell, until the Army is told (mandated) by Congress or someone else very high up in the food chain, they will continue to make these glaring errors with impunity. After all, they are a "peculiar institution".

V/r,
nwlivewire
 

gtvapsamtik

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PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Talk to my PUEBLO today and she recommended that SIGN the NARSUM (PTSD and Major derpessions does not meet retion standards) as is and it will be submitted to PEB. But she will have to include the finds of IPR as well which is malingering and let PEB decide what to do.

So question is should I go ahead and sign the NARSUM or let my lawyer do an appeal. She also made is clear that if we lose during the appeal process, they will reduce my profile to P1 and Medboard process will stop. I am totally lost here. I have till thuraday 25th OCT to decide.

BTW I am assigned to WTB, FORT RILEY.
 

mike762414

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I would recommend appealing, and present your evidence from other sources showing the PTSD diagnosis.I am not sure where your PEBLO says that losing an appeal will stop your MEB. Get to a MEB cousel attorney ASAP
 
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