LOD and EPTS

Tere Quest

Member
Registered Member
Hello, I hope I'm in the right spot and I am sorry if this is long but I need help/advice for a friend.
He was suicidal in early July due to how his leadership and CC were treating him. He is a very by the book/AFI type of person so his CC did not like him. He has never been in trouble Towards, good career, 8 AD and now he is in the Reserves for 2 yrs. Towards the end of Jul he told his 1st Shirt and Chief Enlisted Manager that he had been suicidal but was not longer feeling that way and that he wanted to seek counseling. He also let them know he would be filing a complaint against them and the CC. He tried military one source and that did not work out so he asked his Shirt for the MFLC number. She told him she didn't know it and would get the number once the weekend was over. On that Monday after the weekend he had to ask again and she finally gave him the number and he made an appointment for the coming Wed. However, when he went in to work thr next day he was told to meet the first shirt. There he was basically ambushed and told he should go to a voluntary mental health evaluation. He felt like he has no choice and was even given an escort but still told it was voluntary. Anyways he had to stay at a civilian facility for 7 days (after looking at his medical records the military mental health staff knew he would be there for 7 days). Upon his discharge looking at his paperwork it says admitting diagnosis is r/o bi-polar and his discharge diagnosis is r/o bi-polar. First question how would they get the "r/o bipolar" for an admitting diagnosis. The woman from the military mental health civilian said she had no admitting notes and is not required to write any. Second question is rule out bipolar means they are trying to rule it out, correct?

They sent my friend up for a LOD determination and denied it because they said per the doctor at the civilian agency he has "Bipolar Severe" but he got a copy of those records and it is written no where in there. He went and got a second opinion and was diagnosed with MDD and anxiety. Even thou the military approved of this doctor they are now saying they don't have to accept it because she was a civilian even thou his first diagnosis of "r/o bi-polar " was by a civilian.

His LOD came back as disapproved because they are saying it EPTS. my friend has only went to counseling with MFLC about 4 yrs ago for his marriage and it helped him. He never had any mental health issues and has served honorably for 10 years. I am just looking for help in this situation. He is in a medical unit and honestly it seems like a conflict of interest that the person making a lot of decisions about his future is the one he filing a complaint against. And the CC probably knows all of the medical staff as it is usually a small community.
We have 30 days to write his rebuttal so any help would truly be appreciated.
Also he has started the IG process but that is a beast all on its own.
 

chaplaincharlie

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r/o means rule out. It means that they are some signs, but the provider has not confirmed that the patient meets all the criteria required for a diagnosis. r/o is not a diagnosis and not a criteria for determining that an Amn is unfit.

Second a command directed mental health evaluation requires that certain criteria be met. It sounds like what happened has elements of both a voluntary and command directed. I suggest the member contact ADC ASAP. His legal rights MAY have been violated.
 

Tere Quest

Member
Registered Member
He told them r/o was not official but they are refusing to answer and are making it seem as thou he is not complying. He is going thru the patient advocate not who honestly seem clueless as well. I told him to do everything thru email so at least its written.

Also they did violate his rights as far as the mental health evaluation and in many more ways but its too long to write out. He submitted an IG report but even they are discouraging. It's like they say ok what do you want if they are found to be in the wrong?it seems obvious they need to be held accountable. Anywho I just didn't know if there is something official DoD wise or AFI that states r/o is not official. Thanks for your help.
 

Guardguy11

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Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Hello, I hope I'm in the right spot and I am sorry if this is long but I need help/advice for a friend.
He was suicidal in early July due to how his leadership and CC were treating him. He is a very by the book/AFI type of person so his CC did not like him. He has never been in trouble Towards, good career, 8 AD and now he is in the Reserves for 2 yrs. Towards the end of Jul he told his 1st Shirt and Chief Enlisted Manager that he had been suicidal but was not longer feeling that way and that he wanted to seek counseling. He also let them know he would be filing a complaint against them and the CC. He tried military one source and that did not work out so he asked his Shirt for the MFLC number. She told him she didn't know it and would get the number once the weekend was over. On that Monday after the weekend he had to ask again and she finally gave him the number and he made an appointment for the coming Wed. However, when he went in to work thr next day he was told to meet the first shirt. There he was basically ambushed and told he should go to a voluntary mental health evaluation. He felt like he has no choice and was even given an escort but still told it was voluntary. Anyways he had to stay at a civilian facility for 7 days (after looking at his medical records the military mental health staff knew he would be there for 7 days). Upon his discharge looking at his paperwork it says admitting diagnosis is r/o bi-polar and his discharge diagnosis is r/o bi-polar. First question how would they get the "r/o bipolar" for an admitting diagnosis. The woman from the military mental health civilian said she had no admitting notes and is not required to write any. Second question is rule out bipolar means they are trying to rule it out, correct?

They sent my friend up for a LOD determination and denied it because they said per the doctor at the civilian agency he has "Bipolar Severe" but he got a copy of those records and it is written no where in there. He went and got a second opinion and was diagnosed with MDD and anxiety. Even thou the military approved of this doctor they are now saying they don't have to accept it because she was a civilian even thou his first diagnosis of "r/o bi-polar " was by a civilian.

His LOD came back as disapproved because they are saying it EPTS. my friend has only went to counseling with MFLC about 4 yrs ago for his marriage and it helped him. He never had any mental health issues and has served honorably for 10 years. I am just looking for help in this situation. He is in a medical unit and honestly it seems like a conflict of interest that the person making a lot of decisions about his future is the one he filing a complaint against. And the CC probably knows all of the medical staff as it is usually a small community.
We have 30 days to write his rebuttal so any help would truly be appreciated.
Also he has started the IG process but that is a beast all on its own.
There is so much to unpack with this and if he is not in a good mental place, it is extremely important that he has people like you to fight for him because this freaking system is setup to make every single person fight for their life.

First, the AFI that deals with his situation is 36-2910.

Second, I need to ask a few clarifying questions to help guide the discussion:
- If he is in a medical unit, I could assume that he is on orders. Do you know if he is on orders?
- Was he on orders when this "event" happened or in drill status?
- Have you heard him mention anything about the 8-year rule?

The LOD process is bananas. I have a friend, @Hawaii5-0 , that is going through this crap right now.

Good news is the AFI and DODI are on your side. Since he has 8 years of active duty service, any medical issue that comes up in the reserves should be counted as in the line of duty for the process of getting booted out of the military.

Bad news is that this process is going to be incredibly difficult with a commander that doesn't like you and with AFRC already denying the LOD. He should consult an attorney ASAP if he hasn't done so already.
 

chaplaincharlie

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He told them r/o was not official but they are refusing to answer and are making it seem as thou he is not complying. He is going thru the patient advocate not who honestly seem clueless as well. I told him to do everything thru email so at least its written.

Also they did violate his rights as far as the mental health evaluation and in many more ways but its too long to write out. He submitted an IG report but even they are discouraging. It's like they say ok what do you want if they are found to be in the wrong?it seems obvious they need to be held accountable. Anywho I just didn't know if there is something official DoD wise or AFI that states r/o is not official. Thanks for your help.
Commanders are obliged to follow AFIs. IG should not be asking what he wants them to do, they should know their responsibilities. He may want to elevate this to the DoD IG if he if DoDI was not followed.

 
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