Looking for Cases of Duty Related Conditions Declared non Duty Related

maparker

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
My comment to the article:

A related issue is that the National Guard Bureau (NGB) is illegally reversing positive Line of Duty (LOD) investigations. Following law and regulation is not the NGB's strong suit. They excel at cheating wounded warriors and their families out of legally due disability benefits. There are countless examples where the Veterans Administration has granted service connection for disabilities the NGB declares not to have happened in the line of duty. The VA follows the rules and the NGB just blows it off with out even the decency of providing rationale for their decisions; rationale that would clearly not stand up in court. This is a nation-wide problem and Congress needs to investigate the LOD process throughout the reserve components. Until they do, wounded warriors will be discarded like yesterday's trash. Every Congressman and Senator has a dog in this fight as they all represent districts and states with NG and reserve members. Congress, stand up and fight for those who have served!

Michael A. Parker
LTC, USA (Retired)
Wounded Warrior Advocate
 

TopSecret

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Mike,

Obviously I cannot control what NBC does, but after seeing what aired last night, I am convinced they will make this a national story. I am really impressed with how quickly the news staff grasped the issues, reached out to experts around the country, did high quality FOIA requests, and then analyzed the data to identify the exact problems in California. Given what the California FOIA requests uncovered, NGB and the rest of the country are just too juicy a treat for NBC not to go after. This should get very interesting.
 

COS333

New Member
Registered Member
My comment to the article:

A related issue is that the National Guard Bureau (NGB) is illegally reversing positive Line of Duty (LOD) investigations. Following law and regulation is not the NGB's strong suit. They excel at cheating wounded warriors and their families out of legally due disability benefits. There are countless examples where the Veterans Administration has granted service connection for disabilities the NGB declares not to have happened in the line of duty. The VA follows the rules and the NGB just blows it off with out even the decency of providing rationale for their decisions; rationale that would clearly not stand up in court. This is a nation-wide problem and Congress needs to investigate the LOD process throughout the reserve components. Until they do, wounded warriors will be discarded like yesterday's trash. Every Congressman and Senator has a dog in this fight as they all represent districts and states with NG and reserve members. Congress, stand up and fight for those who have served!

Michael A. Parker
LTC, USA (Retired)
Wounded Warrior Advocate
Mike,

The Deputy State Surgeon of California makes it her mission in life to declare Soldiers non-duty related. I served 3 tours in Iraq and was on my way to Afghanistan when I became ill and spend 4 months in a WTU. The deputy State Surgeon told me to my face that my issues were non-duty related. She told me that PTSD isn't real and that War isn't an excuse to have problems. It is outlandish. The only thing I did for the last 10 years was try and deploy or volunteer for missions stateside. The only thing I did was the army. If I didn't know the regulations, or the structure of the medical system, she would have successfully kicked me out of the military without benefits. In July she lied to me about my MEB Packet. She said the active army kicked it back because it was missing my VA Paperwork. I called Army MEDCOM and found out that it was kicked back because the LOD was too vague. He then sent me an email clarifying the situation and I used it to force her to submit my MEB. Otherwise I would be out on the street.

I have subsequently been found unfit by the army and am waiting a rating for discharge.

DOC
 

TopSecret

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Mike,

You will NOT be shocked to learn that in a recent letter dated OCT 2015 to state law makers, the California National Guard once again asserted that, "A Veterans Affairs determination of whether a medical condition is service connected is not the same, nor does it govern, a military LOD determination."
 

Jason Perry

Benevolent Leader
Site Founder
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
A common issue that seems to be raised in LOD cases is the erroneous idea that a previous unit or command must do the LOD for a Soldier with later service. This is dead wrong. Check out this reference:


AR 600-8-4 Chapter 4-8 (f)(3), states, "Any physical condition having its inception in line of duty during one period of Service or authorized training in any of the Armed Forces that recurs or is aggravated during later Service or authorized training, regardless of the time between, should be in line of duty. The aggravated condition must not be caused by misconduct or willful negligence." (Emphasis added).
 

nwlivewire

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Jason,

I have provided that exact citation in at least a dozen memos to Generals and IGs. They either ignore me, or tell me I'm wrong without citing any regs. There is just not enough oversight.


When I was assigned to the CA CB-WTU (Sacramento, CA), as a Wounded Warrior, I had to FIGHT to get this unit to write up an LOD request for PTSD (SEP 2009). It took MONTHS for me to get it through their heads that an LODI IS needed for my PTSD. They would not initiate an LOD for mental health - PERIOD.

AFTER MONTHS WENT BY, I FINALLY received a copy of an LODI request, and it was signed off by the CA CB-WTU Commander (SEP 2009).

That LOD determination request never got forwarded to Ft. Lewis for a determination.

I tried for better than TWO YEARS THEREAFTER to get that CA CB-WTU to forward that document for an LOD determination.

I have at LEAST 20 e-mails I have saved during this time frame - quoting REGs and EVERYTHING ELSE - BUT TO NO AVAIL.

In the SUMMER of 2011, after my Nurse Case Manager said "we don't/never did one/can't find it" (she lied to me sooo many times), I sent her a copy of the ORIGINAL, SIGNED COPY (sent to me as an e-mail attachment in SEP 2009).

20 emails (+/-), to include direct emails to the Commanders of this unit, and then when my Nurse Case Manager saw the original LODI, she said I was NOT to have EVER received this!

She was mad that someone had even given me a copy of my LOD request - completely filled out and signed by the Commander (SEP 2009). Why was I in possession of the LOD request for determination - I wasn't supposed to have it!

I was finally IDES discharged (PDRL in APR 2012) at 70% WITHOUT being rated for PTSD.

The ARMY IDES system did not rate my PTSD - how could they?

The VA rated my PTSD at 70% effective at date of discharge to PDRL.

Most of these people ("Soldiers") who worked at the CA CB-WTU came from the CA National Guard/Army Reserve system in Sacramento, California!

I even have records in my med files from the CA CB-WTU that shows assessment for PTSD by the CA CB-WTU social work/mental health civilian (SEP 2008), and subsequent enrollment into the VA CPT program for issues related to PTSD (Winter 2009 - Summer 2010).

And I had to fight CA CB-WTU to get permission to get into the VA CPT program - and had to start and stop my CPT therapy with the VA, too!

But that LOD Request for Determination NEVER went forward. Ft. Lewis never got it, and my REPEATED emails to CB-WTU for a re-submittal, a redo with current date/CDR signature, ANYTHING (just get it done!) - ANYTHING - AND NOTHING was ever done!

I have saved all the email traffic on this (to include the original signed LODI request) and will be happy to submit to Jason or maparker upon request.

The LODI was correctly filled out, correctly signed off, but it was never sent forward!

How DARE they (CA CB-WTU) presume to have the right to DECIDE the merits of my injury!!! That WAS NOT their JOB!

Lack of processing an LOD request for determination is how the system can cheat you out of an accurate and fair medical evaluation, it can cheat you out of being able to get treatment for PTSD (and for soooo many OTHER issues), and can most certainly cheat you out of a fair IDES determination.

An LODI is a key and often-times CRITICAL, linchpin document needed to provide the SM INITIAL treatment and continuing care, and can help to provide the IDES process with an accurate assessment of ratings determinations. It can also assist the Veteran in obtaining access to proper VA health care, CRSC benefits, and other post-discharge help (aid and attendance, etc).

Not having an LODI determination when by LAW/REGs, there needs to be one, is just another way for the "system" to save a buck off the backs of the broken.

It's another variation of the theme, "Delay, Deny, We Hope You Die".

Sadly, many have literally died because they could not get the proper assessment and access to care in time.

I know - because I myself, came very, very close to "offing" myself during this time period.

I hope this damnable BROKEN LOD issue gets the Heat of Holy Hell brought down upon it.

STAY IN THE FIGHT!

DO NOT GIVE UP THE FIGHT!

THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS - AND SERVICEMEMBERS LIVES HAVE BEEN CUT SHORT BECAUSE OF THIS!

WE CANNOT, AS A NATION, TREAT OUR WOUNDED SMs LIKE THIS ANYMORE!

V/R,
nwlivewire
 
Last edited:

TopSecret

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
nwlivewire,

If you have a rich documentary record, it would be helpful for you to talk to NBC. The Guard continues to try to blame soliers for the delays in their cases. The FOIA records that NBC has are incredible damning, but if we can get a lot of people to talk on camera, and to refute the Guard's claims, then maybe we can get the command purged and the structure reorganized. You don't even have to disclose PTSD to the public. You can just talk generally about your LOD experience.
 

nwlivewire

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
nwlivewire,

If you have a rich documentary record, it would be helpful for you to talk to NBC. The Guard continues to try to blame soliers for the delays in their cases. The FOIA records that NBC has are incredible damning, but if we can get a lot of people to talk on camera, and to refute the Guard's claims, then maybe we can get the command purged and the structure reorganized. You don't even have to disclose PTSD to the public. You can just talk generally about your LOD experience.
Yep. I hear you!

In my case, I was a mobilized Washington Army National Guard SM who my State immediately transferred me into the Ft. Lewis WTU program (AUG 2007). I remained under Title 10 orders - continuation of Title 10 for medical treatment and care.

In SEP 2008, I was transferred from WTU Ft. Lewis to their CB-WTU system (the CA CB-WTU was my immediate command unit - although I was billeted at my home of record - 600 miles from Sacramento).

Again, still on Title 10 for medical treatment and care.

Remained on Title 10 and was under command and control of CA CB-WTU from SEP 2008,until IDES PDRL in APR 2012.

I hope that the changes to the "new and improved" community based WTU system, that this LOD issue has been resolved. They don't have CB-WTUs anymore - something different I think. And hopefully, this new element responsible for LODs for SMs are doing things correctly, and not screwing things up like the CB-WTU system did in my case - and with others, too.

Having said that, the NG system has BIG LOD flaws - and nation-wide systemic flaws with this LOD issue - and it's been like this for YEARS.

So I hope the Fires of Hell pay them a visit over this - it's LONG overdue.

V/R,
nwlivewire
 

TopSecret

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/California-National-Guard-Fails-to-Meet-Deadlines-on-Critical-Benefits-Requests-330750862.html

My comment to the article:

There are several key points to this story. Some are:

1) LODs are the gateway to financial support and medical care for injuries or illnesses incurred in the line of duty.
2) 73% of completed LODs since 2009 were overdue.
3) 59% of all requested LODs were "essentially ignored." (that's 4,317!)

The Guard released a statement saying, “We have reduced the number of pending cases 70 percent from 1,300 in 2010 to 400 today, and are committed to continuing this progress.” Is the Guard publicly bragging that they are committed to ignoring most LODs as a way to bring down the overdue rate? Of the claimed reduction of 900 pending cases, how many of those were administratively closed (aka "essentailly ignored")?

Army Regulation 600-8-4 makes no mention of "administrative closure" as a possible outcome of the process. So under what autority and by what process does the California Guard "administratively close" an LOD?
 

TopSecret

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Hi all,

I spent time Friday emailing Veteran groups and associations asking them to link to the NBC story on their news webpages and social media. The Veterans of Foreign Wars got it up on their social media today, and there was a huge jump in views, shares, recommends, etc. I have not heard back yet from the other groups. I would like to ask for your help in reaching out to them and attempting to get them to share our story. Also please post here the names of other groups you think the Pebforum community should reach out to to spread the word.

Disabled American Veterans http://www.dav.org/contact-us/
AMVETS [email protected]
IAVA [email protected]
National Guard Assoc. [email protected]
California Dep. Veteran Affairs [email protected]
Military Family Association [email protected]
Military Officer Association [email protected]
America Legion http://www.legion.org/contact/magazine

I haven't found any good contacts for military.com, so if anybody has one, please post.

Our story:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/California-National-Guard-Fails-to-Meet-Deadlines-on-Critical-Benefits-Requests-330750862.html
 
Last edited:

FloridaInjuredInCombat

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Hi all,

I spent time Friday emailing Veteran groups and associations asking them to link to the NBC story on their news webpages and social media. The Veterans of Foreign Wars got it up on their social media today, and there was a huge jump in views, shares, recommends, etc. I have not heard back yet from the other groups. I would like to ask for your help in reaching out to them and attempting to get them to share our story. Also please post here the names of other groups you think the Pebforum community should reach out to to spread the word.

Disabled American Veterans http://www.dav.org/contact-us/
AMVETS [email protected]
IAVA [email protected]
National Guard Assoc. [email protected]
California Dep. Veteran Affairs [email protected]
Military Family Association [email protected]
Military Officer Association [email protected]
America Legion http://www.legion.org/contact/magazine

I haven't found any good contacts for military.com, so if anybody has one, please post.

Our story:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/California-National-Guard-Fails-to-Meet-Deadlines-on-Critical-Benefits-Requests-330750862.html
I would suggest trying to get in contact with National Public Radio. Their format is all about discussing issues in length, it may be something that you could get going in the bay area as that's where the story was broke.
 

Jason Perry

Benevolent Leader
Site Founder
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I will shortly post a new thread on this issue....I have been contacted by the local Florida (West Palm Beach) NBC Affiliate with interest for a follow up story.
 

Ocean

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Hi all,

I spent time Friday emailing Veteran groups and associations asking them to link to the NBC story on their news webpages and social media. The Veterans of Foreign Wars got it up on their social media today, and there was a huge jump in views, shares, recommends, etc. I have not heard back yet from the other groups. I would like to ask for your help in reaching out to them and attempting to get them to share our story. Also please post here the names of other groups you think the Pebforum community should reach out to to spread the word.

Disabled American Veterans http://www.dav.org/contact-us/
AMVETS [email protected]
IAVA [email protected]
National Guard Assoc. [email protected]
California Dep. Veteran Affairs [email protected]
Military Family Association [email protected]
Military Officer Association [email protected]
America Legion http://www.legion.org/contact/magazine

I haven't found any good contacts for military.com, so if anybody has one, please post.

Our story:

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/investigations/California-National-Guard-Fails-to-Meet-Deadlines-on-Critical-Benefits-Requests-330750862.html
 

Ocean

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Hello noted the information above on organizations you may have reached out to, some others are military officers association and reserve officers association.

I waited for the CAARNG to reprocess LODs completed while I was on AD. The SSO/DSO advised me, the AD side of the house did not know how to complete LOD's so the CAARNG took almost 2 years to redo my LOD's. However and finally after 27 months without income, depleting my saving, denied INCAP, then approved INCAP to only be denied again, approved MRP2 ( two hrs later denied), approved MRP2 ETP and then never received orders for 11 months, I returned to AD, MRP2, based on the initial LOD's The CAARNG claimed were not completed correctly, only to have most of the LOD's redone agai. While on AD.

. But......my nightmare did not end, upon arrival at the WTU, I was denied FFD's or medical care for the injuries that brought me back on AD and was placed in the MEB...

The memo NBC local in Calif uncovered from the CAARNG and put out by CAARNG Chief of Staff Feb 2013 noted the injustices that would occur to soldiers due to the delays in processing thier LOD's. Leadership at both NGB and the CAARNG charged in the care of our wounded, ill, injured soldiers knew of this debacle and failed in their mission. Most soldiers who fail un thier mission are charged with dereliction of duty however not in this case many were promoted, quietly moved on or retired, and that is criminal.

Since the LOD issues are occuring is occuring within many
 

Ocean

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
  • Sorry computer shut down so I did not finish, I meant to say since the LOD issue is related to NG and Reserve line of duty injuries what is the motive? Is this a higher up call? If so can soldiers unite and file a class action lawsuit ? Let me know your thoughts?


Hello noted the information above on organizations you may have reached out to, some others are military officers association and reserve officers association.

I waited for the CAARNG to reprocess LODs completed while I was on AD. The SSO/DSO advised me, the AD side of the house did not know how to complete LOD's so the CAARNG took almost 2 years to redo my LOD's. However and finally after 27 months without income, depleting my saving, denied INCAP, then approved INCAP to only be denied again, approved MRP2 ( two hrs later denied), approved MRP2 ETP and then never received orders for 11 months, I returned to AD, MRP2, based on the initial LOD's The CAARNG claimed were not completed correctly, only to have most of the LOD's redone agai. While on AD.

. But......my nightmare did not end, upon arrival at the WTU, I was denied FFD's or medical care for the injuries that brought me back on AD and was placed in the MEB...

The memo NBC local in Calif uncovered from the CAARNG and put out by CAARNG Chief of Staff Feb 2013 noted the injustices that would occur to soldiers due to the delays in processing thier LOD's. Leadership at both NGB and the CAARNG charged in the care of our wounded, ill, injured soldiers knew of this debacle and failed in their mission. Most soldiers who fail un thier mission are charged with dereliction of duty however not in this case many were promoted, quietly moved on or retired, and that is criminal.

Since the LOD issues are occurring within many states and NGB has washed thier hands of state issues, can soldiers unite and file a class action lawsuit. Let me know your thoughts perhaps that might stop this nonsense........
 

danieldresen

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Regrettably our only action is through the Tucker Act and filing through the Federal Claims Court... but if WE ALL clog that court system... who knows... maybe something will get done.
 

gsfowler

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
I do not understand why the NG has such a hard time processing an informal LOD, it literally takes about five minutes
 
data-matched-content-ui-type="image_stacked" data-matched-content-rows-num="3" data-matched-content-columns-num="1" data-ad-format="autorelaxed">
Top