My Final MEB on LAS

Lastlaugh,

You said: "Ok, I just spent all morning in the MEB office, on the phone with DFAS, the VA, Finance here at Lackland, the legal office at Randolph, and the leadership there at the MEB section. All of them are saying this is not true. (I actually logged in on my phone, and handed them it to read your post.) They all said that I will absolutely get my full retirement (based on my disability rating or TIG, whichever is highest) AND my full VA pay. They all claimed there is no reduction of pay for CDRP AT ALL if you are beyond 20 years. The lawyer explained it best (to me anyways).

He said your comment is accurate, but not the way you think:

[1.] "A disability retiree who also meets the requirements for a regular retirement cannot receive more than the amount of the regular retirement would be (for longevity) "


[2.]This means that, regardless of your DOD rating, you cannot draw more than someone who did a full 30 year career (75% of base pay). SO, if your DOD rating was, say, 100%, you could only draw 75% of your base pay due to the fact that the DOD doesnt pay ANYONE higher than 75% of their base pay. He said this has nothing to do with VA at all, and is irrelevant to this case.

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My (Ron) Comments:

Item number [1] above is correct with regard to CRDP. However, it overlooks the requirement for the disability retiree to waive retired pay (part disability and part longevity) dollar for dollar in the amount of VA compensation received. In some cases, the waiver/VA offset does not cause the complete loss of retired pay. To say VA compensation is irrelevant is unfortunate and wrong. The amount of residual retired pay reduces the amount of retired pay restored via CRDP. Note: Before we leave this area, item [2] above is wrong as well. Please see the applicable law and regulation below. Also included is a real case with feedback from the retiree. Perhaps you could share this with those you have conferred.

CRDP FOR CH 61 RETIREES WITH 20 OR MORE YEARS AD


38 CFR 3.750 - Entitlement to concurrent receipt of military retired pay and disability compensation.



§ 3.750 Entitlement to concurrent receipt of military retired pay and disability compensation.
(a)Definition of military retired pay. For the purposes of this part, military retired pay is payment received by a veteran that is classified as retired pay by the Service Department, including retainer pay, based on the recipient's service as a member of the Armed Forces or as a commissioned officer of the Public Health Service, the Coast and Geodetic Survey, the Environmental Science Services Administration, or the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

(b)Payment of both military retired pay and disability compensation or improved pension -

(1)Compensation. Subject to paragraphs (b)(2) and (b)(3) of this section, a veteran who is entitled to military retired pay and disability compensation for a service-connected disability rated 50 percent or more, or a combination of service-connected disabilities rated 50 percent or more, under the schedule for rating disabilities ( 38 CFR part 4, subpart B), is entitled to receive both payments subject to the phase-in period described in paragraph (c) of this section.

(2)Chapter 61 disability retirees retiring with 20 or more years of service. Disability retired pay payable under 10 U.S.C. Chapter 61 to a veteran with 20 or more years of creditable service may be paid concurrently with disability compensation to a qualifying veteran subject to the following:

(i) Any waiver required during the phase-in period under paragraph (c)(1)(ii) of this section; and

---->> (ii) If the veteran's disability retired pay exceeds the amount of retired pay the veteran would have received had the veteran retired based on length of service, the veteran must waive that excess amount of disability retired pay in order to receive VA disability compensation.

(3)Chapter 61 disability retirees retiring with less than 20 years of service. Veterans who receive disability retired pay under 10 U.S.C. Chapter 61 with less than 20 years of creditable service are not eligible for concurrent receipt.



Example (real case, September 2018):

I received my Retiree Account Statement from DFAS today, and here are the relevant facts:

1. DFAS Payment: My gross pay is reflected as $5,726 on the DFAS statement, with a VA waiver amount of $1703, for a NET DFAS payment of $4023 (the max you stated DFAS would pay me above).

2. CRDP Payment Amount: My CDRP was calculated at $1,376.47. This is higher than your figure of $1,270 above because I forgot I am also entitled to receive Special Monthly Compensation (SMC) at the K-1 rate of $105.61. If I subtract SMC from the CDRP ($1,376.47-$105.61), I end up with $1,270.86 , which is essentially the CRDP you quoted above. [note: 4023 max payment less 1376.47 CRDP = 2646.53 residual retired pay...Ron]

3. My next assumption, based on the fact that DFAS is paying me $4023, the other $3079.47 comes as a separate payment from the VA? [yes...Ron]

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A new summary--Ron:
a. Gross retired pay = 5726
b. VA compensation = 3079.47
c. A minus B = 2646.53 residual retired pay
d. Dollar amount of longevity portion of retirement = 4023
e. D minus C = 1376.47 CRDP

Added 5 Oct 18:

The retiree will receive each month:
Residual retired pay 2646.53 + CRDP 1376.47 = $4023 longevity portion of retires pay + VA compensation 3079.47 = 7102.47 TOTAL EACH MONTH


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Final comment: I appreciate the manner in which you presented your concerns: "Please don' take this as disregarding your post. I absolutely am not, and thank you for your post. I am an Intel analyst by trade, and this is the way we get to the facts." Obviously, it was diplomatic.

Ron
U.S. Army Finance Corps (retired in 1991 after 25 years)
 
Let me find the dfas power point when I get home
There is an outdated DFAS PowerPoint presentation on the web that is not longer accurate. It was developed prior to the fix of the CRSC glitch which Mike Parker (maparker) of this site and VBN was instrumental in getting the law changed. It affected CH 61 retirees and the law changed 1 January 2013 if I remember correctly. I have not looked at the PowerPoint presentation in a long time.

Ron
 
There is an outdated DFAS PowerPoint presentation on the web that is not longer accurate. It was developed prior to the fix of the CRSC glitch which Mike Parker (maparker) of this site and VBN was instrumental in getting the law changed. It affected CH 61 retirees and the law changed 1 January 2013 if I remember correctly. I have not looked at the PowerPoint presentation in a long time.

Ron

It's probably the same one but I believe it still works for crdp
 
I spent an hour in the MEB office this morning, showing them this info.

They claim to have never heard of this before (of course). They submitted it to the legal office at Randolph after they called and were told they (Randolph legal office) had never heard of it either.

Its amazing. I must be the only person to have ever veen medically retired after my 20 year mark!

Thanks again for the info
 
Look man, I'm convinced that Ron and I are correct, but by all means, let me know if you find out otherwise, because I'll be in the same boat as you in August.
 
Look man, I'm convinced that Ron and I are correct, but by all means, let me know if you find out otherwise, because I'll be in the same boat as you in August.


Oh I absolutely believe yall are correct! It just amazes me that the folks at MEB office, legal, finance, and Randolph do this every day and cant give me a straight answer at all. This has veen very typical for the last 20 years.

I will let yall know as soon as I get a response from Randolph legal office.
 
If y'all are married or divorced, military disability is not severable in divorce. Percentage makes a huge difference.

No matter the DoD percentage, you won't receive more than if you had a longevity retirement and concurrent receipt. This was confirmed by my attorney at my FPEB.

Best of luck!
 
Oh I absolutely believe yall are correct! It just amazes me that the folks at MEB office, legal, finance, and Randolph do this every day and cant give me a straight answer at all. This has been very typical for the last 20 years.
I will let yall know as soon as I get a response from Randolph legal office.

I provided you the law and a real case that supported my assessment. This is nothing new.

The folks at the elements you mentioned apparently have not reviewed the applicable laws. Fortunately, DFAS will provide the official computation, just like the computation I provided to you and explained it was a transcript of DFAS' computation that was in agreement with my figures.

Here is another reference:
DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 64
VOLUME 7B, CHAPTER 64: “CONCURRENT RETIREMENT AND DISABILITY PAY (CRDP)”

I should add that it is difficult to understand if one has not reviewed all the factors of CRDP and read the associated laws. The DFAS web site does not contain all the necessary info to understand cases such as yours.

Good luck and out here,

Ron
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This is a September 2018 post of a real case and the first I had seen where a CH61 retiree (with 20+ yrs AD) came back to report the DFAS computation:

Update 22 Sep 18:

Feedback from retiree with minor editing for public post:

I received my Retiree Account Statement from DFAS today, and here are the relevant facts:

1. DFAS Payment: My gross pay is reflected as $5,726 on the DFAS statement, with a VA waiver amount of $1703, for a NET DFAS payment of $4023 (the max you stated DFAS would pay me above).

2. CRDP Payment Amount: My CDRP was calculated at $1,376.47. This is higher than your figure of $1,270 above because I forgot I am also entitled to receive Special Monthly Compensation (SMC) at the K-1 rate of $105.61. If I subtract SMC from the CDRP ($1,376.47-$105.61), I end up with $1,270.86 , which is essentially the CRDP you quoted above. [note: 4023 max payment less 1376.47 CRDP = 2646.53 residual retired pay...Ron]

3. My next assumption, based on the fact that DFAS is paying me $4023, the other $3079.47 comes as a separate payment from the VA? [yes...Ron]

-----
A new summary--Ron:
a. Gross retired pay = 5726
b. VA compensation = 3079.47
c. A minus B = 2646.53 residual retired pay
d. Dollar amount of longevity portion of retirement = 4023
e. D minus C = 1376.47 CRDP
f. Result: DFAS pays 4023 (2646.53 residual ret pay + 1376.47 CRDP) VA pays 3079.47 TOTAL: 7102.47
Note: SMC-K was absent from initial computations

Thank you unbalanced scales. This is the first report I have seen of a DFAS RAS for a CH 61 retiree who also qualified for regular retirement via 20 years active duty. I think this will prove helpful in the future for others in this category. Ron
 
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Well, I got the official response back from Randolph legal office. They submitted my question to DFAS, and were told exactly what you said. You cannot draw more than what you would have thru longevity. You were absolutely correct.

Somehow, every single one of the offices I mentioned above are dumbfounded. Non of them claim to have ever heard of this. They have been advising folks all along that they could draw the higher of the 2 amounts.
 
Well, I got the official response back from Randolph legal office. They submitted my question to DFAS, and were told exactly what you said. You cannot draw more than what you would have thru longevity. You were absolutely correct.

Somehow, every single one of the offices I mentioned above are dumbfounded. Non of them claim to have ever heard of this. They have been advising folks all along that they could draw the higher of the 2 amounts.

Thanks for the info.

As we know, CRDP and CRSC issues for disability retirees are more complex. To fully understand the entitlement, one has to have a grasp of multiple laws and how they impact the payments. Folks understandably reach for a simple answer, even when one is not available.



Regards,
Ron
 
Thanks again for the information.

It really aggravates me that none of these offices seemed to know that. Their job is to know the rules and laws and advise personnel on their option in order for them to make informed decisions on their career. Experience thru 3 MEBs now has shown me that the LEAST knowledgeable people are the ones in these offices.

Now I just wait. My package has been at the VA for 40 days now. As soon as they come back with a decision, and the IPEB return their results, i'm done. I have 20 days of leave and 20 days to outprocess.

Do you happen to know where i can look for the laws regarding DOD disability/Retirement paw and divorce?
 
Re: “Do you happen to know where i can look for the laws regarding DOD disability/Retirement paw and divorce?”

I recommend you visit with an attorney on those issues. State laws will also apply...

I use the Cornell Law website. Example Google search: “Cornell law division of military retired pay” (without the quotation marks)

DFAS discusses retired pay and divorce/former spouses at https://www.dfas.mil/garnishment/usfspa/faqs.html

Good luck,
Ron
 
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If y'all are married or divorced, military disability is not severable in divorce. Percentage makes a huge difference.

No matter the DoD percentage, you won't receive more than if you had a longevity retirement and concurrent receipt. This was confirmed by my attorney at my FPEB.

Best of luck!
This is the comment I'm referring to. I have also heard that disability retirement is NOT divisible in divorce.
 
If y'all are married or divorced, military disability is not severable in divorce. Percentage makes a huge difference.
No matter the DoD percentage, you won't receive more than if you had a longevity retirement and concurrent receipt. This was confirmed by my attorney at my FPEB.
Best of luck!

A CH 61 retiree who also qualifies for a regular retirement will receive no more than the CRDP OR the residual retired pay (if applicable) + CRDP reduced by the amount of CRDP. The total cannot exceed the amount of the longevity Retired Pay.

The law, an example computation, and a DFAS computation that confirms the estimate, are provided within this thread.

Ron

Added: If the same retiree was not eligible for CRDP because the VA rating was less than 50%, he/she would retain the residual retired pay after the VA offset (if any remains). The reduction discussed above (CRDP - residual ret pay) is part of the CRDP law and would not apply if CRDP is not payable.
 
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CORRECTION: A CH 61 retiree who also qualifies for a regular retirement will receive no more than the CRDP OR the residual retired pay (if applicable) + CRDP reduced by the amount of residual retired pay. The total cannot exceed the amount of the longevity Retired Pay.

The law, an example computation, and a DFAS computation that confirms the estimate, are provided within this thread.

Ron

Added: If the same retiree was not eligible for CRDP because the VA rating was less than 50%, he/she would retain the residual retired pay after the VA offset (if any remains). The reduction discussed above (CRDP - residual ret pay) is part of the CRDP law and would not apply if CRDP is not payable.
 
Got my ratings back today!

20% DOD (Down from 70% when I was approved for LAS)
100% VA
 
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