NARSUM incomplete and inaccurate

PARATROOPER

PARATROOPER

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Long time reader, picked up a ton of useful info here but i've ran into a problem and i'm looking for some guidance.

Bare with me please I have some major concerns with what is going on here. I am also going through the PILOT PROGRAM for my MEB.

During my NARSUM appointment the DR and I were going over my C&P exam paperwork and I was just about to ask the doc why I never received a ROM test for my lower back injuries ( lumbar spondylosis , DDD ) when I spot a ROM result in my C&P packet that reads "forward flexion 0-80 , extension 0-15 , R/L rotation 0-30 . Pain in all ROM , no further limitations".

Keep in my mind I had been reading over pebforum for weeks looking up VASRD codes , ratings , VA worksheets for spinal exam , VASRD regulations, ect... prior to my NARSUM So I ask the NARSUM doc how it is possible for me to have a ROM test result in my C&P file when the only thing even close to a ROM that was done was the C&P doc had me bend forward , twist L/R , and attempt to bend backwards one time without using any type of tool to measure the degrees ( no ganiomter was ever brought out during my exam ) while he sat at his desk pecking away on his keyboard.

I can barely get the tips of my fingers to my knees before the pain is to great that I think I could possibly be doing more harm to my back so I would love to know how I have a 80 degree forward flexion diagnosed by some doc that thinks hes house and can eyeball a degree on a ROM from across the room. Not to mention there were no repetitions done even if he was so great he needed no tool to conduct a ROM, yet he marked no loss on ROM , no weakness , or loss of endurance on repetitions on my C&P.

I also have hypertension and have been on hctz for this condition for months and the doc also felt it was necessary to mark no for the question " are daily medications being taken to control heart disease or hypertension?"

I could honestly go on for pages about all the incorrect information and flat out lies that are in my C&P report. My PTSD is now called "adjustment disorder- with anxiety" , there is no mention whatsoever of the bulging disk found at T11-T12, L1-L2, L3-L4, only disks mentioned are L4-L5, and L5-S1.

Sorry i'm ranting now, to get to the point I brought this to the attention of my PEBLO he instructed me to put this in a formal letter sign it and bring it to him. he in turn took this to the VA reps that are overseeing the program here. He was told I could do nothing about this until I am out of the military then I can appeal they would not even read anything I wrote and that I had no right to go against anything found in the C&P report. I of course went to JAG and will be taking this NARSUM that way shortly but has anyone else ever heard of anything like this and is this legit ?

Seems pretty obsurd to me that they have one C&P doc here that does the physical exams and he is the be all end all of your exam and you have no right to seek an appropriate exam in order to give the PEB the most correct and complete medical information as possible to handle a given case if he decides to cut corners on your exam so he can go home at 1630.


any info is appreciated sorry for the rant im just a little bit hot about this right now.
 
Please look at this link and share it with your PEBLO and include it in your letter of protest. This is from the US Army Human Resource Command guideline for MEB

https://www.hrc.army.mil/.../Range_of_Motion_Template_doc_(2).doc
 
thanks for the fast reply I cant even begin to say how much this board has helped me so far.

I had a copy of that document attached to my letter and gave it to my PEBLO it was also taken to the VA reps and turned away because according to them you can not dispute the findings of a C&P exam I was told they would not look at anything I bring to them about it and my only recourse is to agree and try and get it fixed once im out.

which makes no sense to me because my back is the unfitting diagnosis on my NARSUM the other 5 are found to be fitting. So they are telling me I should go along with an incorrect ROM test which will get me a rating of 10% which is severance pay when a correct ROM test could possibly result in 40% which would put me into the retirement range. It just really feels very shady to me because how could the PEB possibly rate me correctly when the very exam they will going off of has not been done correctly.
 
I'm not an attorney but there are some on the forum who are. My belief is that they are setting themselves up for failure, at the very least an appeal of any subsequent findings based on error. Furthermore, the VA physician and VA reps giving you this information are way off base, likely some contracted physician who knows nothing about the MEB/PEB process much less how to use the VASRD. Once you are out is not the time tp get records corrected. I would also ask your PEBLO now to be prepared to provide an independent medical advisor under NDAA 2008. How bad can this pilot program get???

fdm
 
MEBs/NARSUMs are forbiden to make fitness calls or recommendations. Do you mean meets/does not meet retention standards? Regardless, per DoDI 1332.38 they are required to list full clinical data on all medical conditions. Hold them to that standard and appeal like hell if they don't.

Mike
 
My issue with them is the fact that here there is one DR that does C&P physical exams and one DR that does their PTSD initial screen. So basically these guys do every single soldier on this entire post that goes through the MEB process which is so many that even in the pilot program they are a month behind on my case. So these docs get burnt out or tired or overworked or whatever the reason they tell themselves to not have an issue with cutting corners on soldiers exams and in my case completely ignoring the VASRD and the VA instructions on conducting a ROM exam. I loved the part where during the NARSUM I brought this up to the NARSUM doc and he laughed and told me your not the first person to bring this up it happens all the time. If that is the case then what does it take to get one of these doctors removed or at the very least add a new doctor so atleast half the people going through a MEB here have a fair shot at getting their correct diagnosis and medical information sent to the PEB.
 
I am submitting my rebuttal to my JAG rep today he told me to keep it simple no more than 2 pages because in his experience anymore than that and nobody will read it. My diagnosis for my back was Lumbar spondylosis and DDD L4-L5 , L5-S1 are listed as bulging disks. Even though in my original MRI that is the case, in my current and most recent MRI it also shows disk bulges at T11-12 , L1-L2, L2-L3, L4-L5 , and L5-S1. Would this make a difference on the diagnosis knowing now that instead of 2 disks this is affecting 5 disks? or would this push me into a different or an additional VASRD rating?

maparker: to answer your question that was a mistake on my part it was not a unfit call on the NARSUM it stated does not meet retention standards.

the incorrect information goes on for days... the PTSD screen had incorrect doctor, incorrect medication, incorrect date, exaggerated length of time for the screen, and it had an overall tone to it where he was basically calling me a liar and at one point actually stated that due to my superior intelligence he believes that I am exaggerating my symptoms. His axis is as follows:

AXIS 1: mild adjustment disorder
AXIS 2: SUPERIOR INTELLIGENCE
AXIS 3: orthopedic problems, migraines, chronic pain, see med record.
AXIS 4: problems w/ primary support group, problems with social environment, occupational problems
AXIS 5: GAF of 65

I have never seen anything saying I have "mild adjustment disorder" to my knowledge I have been being seen for PTSD at mental health. I have also been back from deployment and dealing with these issues for around 14 months. From everything I can find about adjustment disorder it lasts no longer than 6 months. I understand AD is compensable up to 100% the same as PTSD but the fact that it must be called "chronic adjustment disorder" and that he specifically wrote "mild" after seeing me for 10 mins seems pretty unreal to me.

Sorry for the rant fellas I really do appreciate any and all info or experiences you could share with me. If anyone has experience with a rebuttal due to improper C&P exams please let me know. the majority of my rebuttal is about the PTSD screen as stated above and the fact that no goniometer was used during my ROM and no proper description of the loss of function upon use are found in my C&P exam or narsum
 
Keep on appealing and complaining until they put full clinical data on all medical conditions. Did they put migraines on your NARSUM? If your NARSUM is not completely correct when it is sent to the IPEB, let me know.

Mike
 
yes migranes are listed on my NARSUM but my JG guy says I should have a copy of my migrane journal on hand just incase because i havent been able to get anything moving on my migranes as far as being treated for it because all of the doctors I have been too tell me that if my meds for my back are able to make the migranes bearable then there is no reason to put me on a specific migrane medication since im taking so many meds already , so he said that could be a issue when it comes time to give me a percentage for it even though the C&P and NARSUM docs had no issue with it when I explained it to them.
 
Contact a Congressman from your state. The ARMY loves this..... If you told them what is going on they would be on them like flies on shit.... I am really tired of these dirtbags screwing us over. I can't even stomach this carp. One other thing I read is that with all the medication that you are on you might be getting rebound migraines which you should receive a rating for.... The other thing you might want to do is go to the IG after you request to see a nuerologist.
 
Paratrooper,

When you say your JAG rep, are you referring to your MEB Outreach Counsel? If not, you need to contact them ASAP. I see the number for Ft. Polk MEBOC is 337-531-0635/337-531-1247. I don't know why you would have to do your own rebuttal, your MEB Outreach Counsel should be helping you do that at a minimum. Please keep us informed on what happens in your case. You have some serious issues to deal with on your medical board. Good luck!
 
There are great variations in the amount and competency of assistance that you will get from your JAG.

I have been very concerned about the Outreach Counsel program, because from what I have seen, they have not practiced at the PEBs. This program is new and they have just hired a bunch of lawyers over the past year or so to fill these positions. It is hard for me to see them having enough experience to be as effective as possible (though, they are better than nothing; I am not criticizing their availability, I would just like to see them have more experience).

Much will be driven by the supervisor at each legal office. When I was an assigned JAG, when I arrived, the "policy" was to tell Soldiers that if they "wanted to appeal" to draft a letter the JAG would review it. I thought this was a bunch of crap and always drafted my clients' rebuttals (you don't go to a doctor to be given a scalpel and told to do your own surgery and they will look you over after you are done)! My sense is that this practice of just "reviewing" appeals is pretty widespread (though, not universal, some of my JAG colleagues are in the practice of providing rebuttals).
 
Yes I was referring to my MEB outreach counsel from JAG... But here is the thing, this guy knows not one thing that has helped me move this forward at all. He was suppose to have a rebuttal prepared for me by a certain date i called, i went to his office , the date came and he was nowhere to be found and he had emailed me nothing. So luckily i had been working on a draft of a rebuttal myself and handed that in and it was good enough to get me granted a IMA for my back and PTSD. the back ima was done and the doc found me to be @ 59 degrees forward flexion which is 21 degrees less ROM than the made up ROM done by the C&P.

i am still waiting for my PTSD IMA but i was already told by one of the psych docs that they will do almost anything to not give me a PTSD diagnosis .... im like ok why is that? Soi have been diagnosed with PTSD post deployment, but that is somehow gone in between me PCSing, so im just gonna get hosed with an adjustment disorder diagnosis even though i have been back from deployment since jul2008 and according to army mental health adjustment disorder lasts no longer than 6 months then it must be diagnosed as another mental disorder. This doctor told me that because I still train I have not been able to properly adjust or wind down from combat actions or scenerios so I cant be diagnosed with PTSD because I havent been given a chance to heal mentally. Even though I do not and have not gone to the field or fired my weapon since I have been back due to mental and physical conditions. When I told him that he kind of gave me a blank look and said, "well lets give you this PAR personality test and we'll see you in a few weeks" this appointment with him is going to be the day after my IMA which is with some other psych doc I have never seen but it is however the psych doc that without ever seeing me one time wrote on my VA paperwork that I have adjustment disorder and no PTSD....

I mean what can I do? I just feel like every single turn I am getting screwed and I am fighting everyone about everything. On top of that there is so much completely false ... basically just plain forgery in my C&P packets that I dont know how I will ever get a fair rating since I have been told that no matter what those packets are going to the MEB/PEB even if the IMA has different findings.... I just have no idea how I am suppose to get a fair shot here , I absolutely wont be able to hold down a regular job I work maybe 4 hours a day 3-4 days a week now and that consists of my company making me come to the CP and stand in the supply room just to say im working because I cant do anything.
 
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