New to PEBF

GeorgeF

Registered Member
#1
Hello all,
I am new here, mainly because I have a few questions regarding an accident I was involved in ILOD. Can anyone point me in the right direction where I can ask a question about INCAP?
Thanks!
 

GeorgeF

Registered Member
#3
Thanks Army_PSYOP_1SG

I was active duty for one tour then joined the guard 10yrs total service. I was involved in a car accident in December on my way home from drill. It was found to be ILOD. I saw a Doctor on base who told me not to return to drill until my civilian doctors ok it. I have been diagnosed with post concussion syndrome and am still dealing with frequent headaches and other neurological problems. My civilian (and VA) doctors have told me not to return to work.
Before the accident I knew nothing about LOD or INCAP in fact it was the med group who eventually told me I qualified for INCAP sometime in late April. Since then I have been told by the INCAP rep (a SSgt) that I am not eligible because I was unemployed (full time student) at the time of the accident. At that point I started reading regs and asking my supervisor and finance why I am not eligible. After that they have redacted their statement about me not being eligible but have told me I only qualify for missed drill pay. (When I am cleared to come back I will need to make up those days anyways without pay for retirement points).
They want me to fill out an unemployment statement now that says I was not working and I have not lost any wages since the accident.
The way I interpret the regs that I have read is that I should be entitled to "full pay and entitlements" since the accident. I have over 15k on my credit cards and don't know when I will be able to return to work at this point. I have had absolutely no income since the accident. I spoke to JAG on base who told me they represent the commanders and don't have time to look into all of the INCAP regs for me. He did say he asked around on base and "it comes down to the budget".
So right now I have two major questions:
1. Do I qualify for Incap if I was unemployed at the time of the accident?
2. Do I only qualify for missed drill pay? (have not been able to work any other jobs or create income since the accident)

Keep in mind it is now June and the only official paperwork I know of that has been generated is the ILOD determination. I have been told INCAP pay will happen once the paperwork makes it to the wing CC's desk. I never thought I would be out of work this long so I figured I would be ok financially on my own, now I realize that isn't the case.

Thank you for your help in this matter. If you think it would be appropriate to move this question to another thread than I am willing to do so I just didn't know where to start and I didn't want to hijack someone else's post.
 

FloridaInjuredInCombat

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#4
Thanks Army_PSYOP_1SG

I was active duty for one tour then joined the guard 10yrs total service. I was involved in a car accident in December on my way home from drill. It was found to be ILOD. I saw a Doctor on base who told me not to return to drill until my civilian doctors ok it. I have been diagnosed with post concussion syndrome and am still dealing with frequent headaches and other neurological problems. My civilian (and VA) doctors have told me not to return to work.
Before the accident I knew nothing about LOD or INCAP in fact it was the med group who eventually told me I qualified for INCAP sometime in late April. Since then I have been told by the INCAP rep (a SSgt) that I am not eligible because I was unemployed (full time student) at the time of the accident. At that point I started reading regs and asking my supervisor and finance why I am not eligible. After that they have redacted their statement about me not being eligible but have told me I only qualify for missed drill pay. (When I am cleared to come back I will need to make up those days anyways without pay for retirement points).
They want me to fill out an unemployment statement now that says I was not working and I have not lost any wages since the accident.
The way I interpret the regs that I have read is that I should be entitled to "full pay and entitlements" since the accident. I have over 15k on my credit cards and don't know when I will be able to return to work at this point. I have had absolutely no income since the accident. I spoke to JAG on base who told me they represent the commanders and don't have time to look into all of the INCAP regs for me. He did say he asked around on base and "it comes down to the budget".
So right now I have two major questions:
1. Do I qualify for Incap if I was unemployed at the time of the accident?
2. Do I only qualify for missed drill pay? (have not been able to work any other jobs or create income since the accident)

Keep in mind it is now June and the only official paperwork I know of that has been generated is the ILOD determination. I have been told INCAP pay will happen once the paperwork makes it to the wing CC's desk. I never thought I would be out of work this long so I figured I would be ok financially on my own, now I realize that isn't the case.

Thank you for your help in this matter. If you think it would be appropriate to move this question to another thread than I am willing to do so I just didn't know where to start and I didn't want to hijack someone else's post.
First and foremost, learn the regs for yourself, as knowing them is the best ammunition you have to a just outcome. Specifically look at DA PAM 135-381 which is backed up by AR 135-381.

If you are not allowed to attend drill (not fit for military duty) due to your LOD injury YOU QUALIFY for Tier 1 INCAP pay, which is FULL PAY and BENEFITS just as if you were on Active Duty (30 days a month), that includes BAS and BAH.

If you are able to drill, but unable to work in your civilian job, that would qualify you for Tier 2 INCAP pay, which is whatever wages you lost up to the level of pay you would receive under Tier 1.

Being a full time student or unemployed would affect you if you could still go to drill, as you'd have to prove lost wages. BUT if you're unable to attend drill (and this is decided by DA FORM 7574-1, the Military Physicians report of Fitness for Duty) then YOU'RE QUALIFIED for Tier 1 Pay regardless of your civilian income.

DO NOT SIGN ANY "Unemployment Statement", especially if its some bogus thing generated by the unit, as it smacks of an end run to cheat you out of benefits. Instead download the DA PAM 135-381, read it THOROUGHLY and then print out and highlight what it takes to qualify for Tier 1 (being Unfit for Military Duty). That along with your signed DA FORM 7574-1's (have to have one for each 90 day period) should more than enough to qualify for INCAP.

As for the statement "it comes down to budget", NO, NO and HELL NO! It comes down to the Guard's RESPONSIBILITY to COVER DOWN for INCAPACITATED SOLDIERS INJURED IN THE LINE OF DUTY.

Hope this helps... let me know if they hang you up on something else or drag their feet.
 

GeorgeF

Registered Member
#5
First and foremost, learn the regs for yourself, as knowing them is the best ammunition you have to a just outcome. Specifically look at DA PAM 135-381 which is backed up by AR 135-381.

If you are not allowed to attend drill (not fit for military duty) due to your LOD injury YOU QUALIFY for Tier 1 INCAP pay, which is FULL PAY and BENEFITS just as if you were on Active Duty (30 days a month), that includes BAS and BAH.

If you are able to drill, but unable to work in your civilian job, that would qualify you for Tier 2 INCAP pay, which is whatever wages you lost up to the level of pay you would receive under Tier 1.

Being a full time student or unemployed would affect you if you could still go to drill, as you'd have to prove lost wages. BUT if you're unable to attend drill (and this is decided by DA FORM 7574-1, the Military Physicians report of Fitness for Duty) then YOU'RE QUALIFIED for Tier 1 Pay regardless of your civilian income.

DO NOT SIGN ANY "Unemployment Statement", especially if its some bogus thing generated by the unit, as it smacks of an end run to cheat you out of benefits. Instead download the DA PAM 135-381, read it THOROUGHLY and then print out and highlight what it takes to qualify for Tier 1 (being Unfit for Military Duty). That along with your signed DA FORM 7574-1's (have to have one for each 90 day period) should more than enough to qualify for INCAP.

As for the statement "it comes down to budget", NO, NO and HELL NO! It comes down to the Guard's RESPONSIBILITY to COVER DOWN for INCAPACITATED SOLDIERS INJURED IN THE LINE OF DUTY.

Hope this helps... let me know if they hang you up on something else or drag their feet.
FIC,
Thanks for the quick reply. First off, I have read the regs over and over, the issue seems to be the "pay and benefits" terminology, nowhere does it explicitly say full active duty pay.
As far as the unemployment statement goes apparently my unit requires it and they are not willing to submit my request for incap until I fill it out. Can you explain what you mean by "it smacks of an end run to cheat you out of benefits" at this point I do not know why it is required but if I do not sign it it will just delay this process even longer.
 

GeorgeF

Registered Member
#6
FIC,
Thanks for the quick reply. First off, I have read the regs over and over, the issue seems to be the "pay and benefits" terminology, nowhere does it explicitly say full active duty pay.
As far as the unemployment statement goes apparently my unit requires it and they are not willing to submit my request for incap until I fill it out. Can you explain what you mean by "it smacks of an end run to cheat you out of benefits" at this point I do not know why it is required but if I do not sign it it will just delay this process even longer.
Please see AFI 36-2910 Chapter 6.4, It states I need an unemployment statement if I am claiming loss of wages. This does not seem right to me because obviously I have lost wages in the last 6mo because I have not been able to work. I have also been told drill pay and any additional guard days (that I usually take advantage of) cannot be included in "loss of wages"
 

Army_PSYOP_1SG

Registered Member
#7
@FloridaInjuredInCombat,
You are spot on. Units leadership always try to deny Soldiers of INCAP benefits before looking into the program.

To @GeorgeF, First of all, NO ONE can deny you the right to submit documentation for INCAP. If you make the request then they have to carry out your request.

AR 135-381, 1-4, n(2)(a) states, "This completed DA Form 2173 will be used in the interim to initiate the required paperwork for the member to request incapacitation benefits until the LDI is approved and finalized by the appointing/approval authority".
DODI 1241.01, Enclosure 4, para 2 states, "2. An RC Service member with an in-LOD determination may be entitled to incapacitation pay upon request in accordance with sections 204(g) or 204(h) of Reference (f).
a. RC Service Member Unable to Perform Military Duties. An RC Service member who is unable to perform military duties as a result of an in-LOD determination is entitled to incapacitation pay upon request in accordance with section 204(g) of Reference (f) as implemented in paragraph 570607 and Table 57-3 of chapter 57 of Reference (n)."

It is the board that will make that determination, not some unit level or BDE level personnel. Unemployed soldiers can claim INCAP pay under this program and does not have to be working under Tier 1. If your doctor says that you are unfit for military duty then you'll receive full active duty pay and entitlements. Tier 2 is job dependent as will pay you what you will have been paid had you been on your job minus any income received from various sources. AR 135-381 and DA PAM 135-381, and DODI 1241.01 entitles you to this.

The "Unemployment Statement" was phased our many years ago under the previous regulation and should not be used. It basically lays out that if you become employed that you have to be sure to notify the unit or the Commander so that portion can be deducted from you INCAP pay only if you received any inform from them during that month. But that form is from an obsolete regulation no longer in circulation NGR 135-381 (http://www.ngbpdc.ngb.army.mil/pubs/135/ngrar135_381.pdf). All that needs to be done is on the 7574 in block 12, write in "unemployed". Then on block 13, write in the amount that you received from the GI Bill. The only source of income that does not have to be reported and will not be deducted is VA disability payments.

Although the ILOD determination is not needed to request incap, you could have been receiving INCAP pay 30 days after the injury was reported per DODI 1241.2 and AR 135-381 and DA PAM 135-381. Since you do have the ILOD determination it now ensures that your pay and entitlements are guaranteed.

I only gather and review INCAP documents on the unit level before submitting up the chain. And plus, I have a ILOD injury that I am recovering from myself. I am in the Army Reserves and we have a slightly different process on routing documents to various departments within the Army Reserves Command. But no matter if you are NGB or Army Reserves, we all follow the same regulation. File an IG complaint to put some fire under their feet.

Stay on top of them and bug the hell out of them. Every Army Reserve and NGB unit must make the request for INCAP through a system called MEDCHART in the INCAP section. Press them about entering your documents in this system. This is an army requirement and directive from the Secretary of Defense. This system tracks, routes, and monitor all claims. The 7574, 7574-1, and Commander's Memo has to be completed every after the last day of the month being claimed. I have attached some information with templates on how the forms needs to be filled out. Look over the checklist to see what is required from you, the Soldier. The yellow bubbles have information in them once you hover your cursor over it. This is the Army Reserves process but both NGB and Army Reserves follows the same regulation. Do not attend drill if the doctor says you are not fit for duty. It will complicate your claim.

Again, file an IG complaint and reference the regulation and DODI 1241.01 if you feel the need.
 

Attachments

Army_PSYOP_1SG

Registered Member
#8
Oh ok, you are in the Air Force Reserves. I got you now. I am not familiar with their process. What I mentioned was for the Army National Guard and Reserves. However, DODI 1241.01 applied to all reserve components.
 

FloridaInjuredInCombat

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#9
The underlying Law that covers the pay for INCAP is USC Title 37, Section 204. Attached is a copy, with the highlighted portion indicating INCAP is to be equivalent to full active duty pay for your grade and time in service.

As for the "unemployment statement", if you are forced to sign it to keep the ball rolling, I would suggest you include on the form that you have been found Medically Unfit for Duty and that qualifies you to receive Tier 1 (Full Active Duty pay and benefits), and reference the Law and DA PAM for good measure.

Hope this helps...
 

Attachments

Army_PSYOP_1SG

Registered Member
#10
@FloridaInjuredInCombat ,
We have to keep in mind that he is in the Air Force Reserves. The documentation and processing is different than the Army. The Air Force Incap reg is AFI 36-2910. So AR 185-381 and DA PAM 185-381 does not apply to him. But DODI 1241.01 applies to all service members in all components. So he would not be able to reference either of those.
 

FloridaInjuredInCombat

PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
#11
@FloridaInjuredInCombat ,
We have to keep in mind that he is in the Air Force Reserves. The documentation and processing is different than the Army. The Air Force Incap reg is AFI 36-2910. So AR 185-381 and DA PAM 185-381 does not apply to him. But DODI 1241.01 applies to all service members in all components. So he would not be able to reference either of those.
Thanks for the FYI.

The same Law applies to all branches, and that's what outlines full active duty pay and benefits. In AFI 36-2910, ref. 6.2.1 and 6.2.3 which state those unable to perform military duties are entitled to full pay and allowances but that pay shall not exceed that of a RegAF member. What the AFI leaves out, the Law covers.
 
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