Please give me some advise

dmt.w

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Hello everyone,

Stumped upon this forum as I'm trying to find out what can I possibly do in my current condition. Hope I may get some advise from you guys.
I apologize first as this is going to be a long post.

I jointed Active Army Nov. 2013

Got 2 stress fractures on my pelvis and 1 on my right femur. those weren't diagnosed at the time, only a suspicion. The company I was in chapters all conformed hip fractures out, and as I was joined through MAVNI, I would be send back to the country I came from if I got chaptered. Therefore I did not go back to get conformation on them and did a full month training on them. 12 mile ruck march, PT test and all. Luckily, I passed everything.

I finally got them checked out good after I got to AIT and the fractures were conformed. That was Mar. 2014. Doctor asked if I want a permanent profile, I said no. So a temporary profile as issued. Unfortunately, as an mechanic, I had to do quite some heavy lifting in order to pass AIT, which cause the healing of the fractures delayed even further. At the end of the AIT, I was asked to get a permanent profile or maybe even med board. I said I want to try a little more and that was that.

Got to my unit June 2014, hip issues were not improving. According to two different doctors, it has turned into chronic pain, and likely to last forever.

Around that time I started to develop an exercise induced bronchospasm, and has been to ER twice since. I has never did any sports or other physical work before I jointed Army, and according to my doctor my lungs just got stressed out from all the army training.

Around May 2015, my doctor told me that I'm either getting a permanent profile or a med board. One or the other. So I chose the permanent profile. Leadership was upset about it.

End of 2015, on one of the mission to move some heavy equipment and gear, due to the unfortunate circumstances there wasn't enough people and it supposed to be a short day, me and my battles decide to push through it. We did it, but I strained my back. I has since regularly having bad spasm that will give out sometimes even when I'm doing PU and SUs.

My unit got a new 1SG back in March and is pushing much more intense PT and training schedules. Since then, my pain level has gone up a lot more. Pain level right now is about anywhere between 5-7 depends on what I'm doing. Exercise induced bronchospasm that use to happen once a week or two now happens almost everyday which likely going to cause difficulty for me to pass PT test.

All these problems above has affected my sleep quality. It's difficult for me to fall asleep and I wake up at lease 3-4 times a night from discomfort and/or pain. As a result, I'm drowsy during day time and have trouble keep up working quality.

Many of leadership do not believe that chronic pain or exercise induced bronchospasm is real thing, and seem to think I'm just trying to get off of work. I have heard my 1SG said to one of the other soldier who has asthma that there's not such thing as asthma. And I have had couple higher rank people in my company said the same thing to me. I have been called to my XO earlier to discuss the issue. It sounds like my company is not happy with me and is considering push for chapter 13.

It seems like I'm neither doing any good for the Army nor myself.

What should I do at this point? Any advise is welcomed.
Please help.
Thank you very much for your time.
 

Camp P Marine

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Ignorance of leadership seems to run rampant across all services. Can you have the Dr. start the MEB? I know leaving the service is hard, but it sounds like it's not good for your health to continue.

I'd get the MEB rolling, since they can't really push a chapter unless you could face a OTH discharge I believe.
 
Last edited:

gsfowler

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
A chapter 13 would not apply to you. Since you have underlying medical conditions they would need to pursue another avenue.

At this point, you need to address your medical conditions and begin treatment for them. Treatment will more than likely be conservative at first (physical therapy) and mild pain management, but this is how the Army deals with stress fractures.

You may want to consider sitting down with the 1SGT and create a plan in which he/she can utilize you within the limits of your profile.

Where are you at on your citizenship? Have you been working towards naturalization?
 

FloridaInjuredInCombat

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Given your history of treatment, you should go back to your doctor immediately and talk with them initiating an MEB. Do this before they start the process for a Chapter 13 discharge. If they do start the process for a Chapter 13, go see IG because they should not be trying to give you an admin discharge due to disabilities, they should be processing you through IDES (MEB/PEB).

Bottom line, if you were injured while on Active Duty (barring misconduct or gross negligence on your part) it should be IN the Line of Duty. If you can't stay in and work around the profile, then they should evaluate you for disability compensation and benefits, not push you out with nothing to show for it.

Also, don't let them tell you it's a VA problem. The Army has a responsibility to provide benefits and pay to any Soldier who is disabled in the Line of Duty, that is what the MEB and PEB are for. If you're rated below 30% (for those conditions that the Army finds not meeting retention standards) they owe you separation pay. If you're rated at 30% or higher (for the conditions that don't meet retention standards) you should be medically retired, with pay and benefits accordingly.

Don't accept a Chapter 13 discharge, stand your ground for an MEB/PEB.

Hope this helps...
 

dmt.w

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
A chapter 13 would not apply to you. Since you have underlying medical conditions they would need to pursue another avenue.

At this point, you need to address your medical conditions and begin treatment for them. Treatment will more than likely be conservative at first (physical therapy) and mild pain management, but this is how the Army deals with stress fractures.

You may want to consider sitting down with the 1SGT and create a plan in which he/she can utilize you within the limits of your profile.

Where are you at on your citizenship? Have you been working towards naturalization?

Thank you very much for your reply!
I have already been naturalized during AIT.
For the conditions, I have continues treatment on them, but unfortunately it's not really doing much.
 

dmt.w

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Ignorance of leadership seems to run rampant across all services. Can you have the Dr. start the MEB? I know leaving the service is hard, but it sounds like it's not good for your health to continue.

I'd get the MEB rolling, since they can't really push a chapter unless you could face a OTH discharge I believe.


Given your history of treatment, you should go back to your doctor immediately and talk with them initiating an MEB. Do this before they start the process for a Chapter 13 discharge. If they do start the process for a Chapter 13, go see IG because they should not be trying to give you an admin discharge due to disabilities, they should be processing you through IDES (MEB/PEB).

Bottom line, if you were injured while on Active Duty (barring misconduct or gross negligence on your part) it should be IN the Line of Duty. If you can't stay in and work around the profile, then they should evaluate you for disability compensation and benefits, not push you out with nothing to show for it.

Also, don't let them tell you it's a VA problem. The Army has a responsibility to provide benefits and pay to any Soldier who is disabled in the Line of Duty, that is what the MEB and PEB are for. If you're rated below 30% (for those conditions that the Army finds not meeting retention standards) they owe you separation pay. If you're rated at 30% or higher (for the conditions that don't meet retention standards) you should be medically retired, with pay and benefits accordingly.

Don't accept a Chapter 13 discharge, stand your ground for an MEB/PEB.

Hope this helps...

Thank you guys for the reply!
How do I have the doctor start the MEB/PEB? Directly talk to them about it? I've been told by leader ship if I go ask for a MEB/PEB is a sign of weakness and trying to quite and will have really bad influence for my discharge. Is that true?
I understand the MEB/PEB usually will be an General Discharge under Honorable Conditions. If I go for it, and my company really hate me and try to push it down to an other than honorable, will they be able to do it?
I already got the US citizenship but can loose it if it's an other than honorable discharge.
 

gsfowler

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
MEB/PEB will either result in return to duty, discharge with severance (honorable) or medical retirement (honorable).

Right now you are operating on generalizations that are incorrect, you may want to talk to the chaplain and have him/her explain your rights to you in confidence.

Your company has very little input on your characterization of service.
 

dmt.w

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
MEB/PEB will either result in return to duty, discharge with severance (honorable) or medical retirement (honorable).

Right now you are operating on generalizations that are incorrect, you may want to talk to the chaplain and have him/her explain your rights to you in confidence.

Your company has very little input on your characterization of service.

Thank you for the info.
I'll certainly try that.
 

FloridaInjuredInCombat

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
If your unit is wrongfully pushing for a Chapter 13 discharge, then explain to your doctor that the medical issue has been going on a while, and that an MEB would be the right option. The Army should not discharge you with a disability incurred in the service without evaluating you through the MEB process. If you are still denied an MEB, you may want to file an IG complaint and talk to your US Senator about it. Pushing you out, cheating you out of benefits due, is not only against the regulations, it is morally wrong.
 

dmt.w

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
If your unit is wrongfully pushing for a Chapter 13 discharge, then explain to your doctor that the medical issue has been going on a while, and that an MEB would be the right option. The Army should not discharge you with a disability incurred in the service without evaluating you through the MEB process. If you are still denied an MEB, you may want to file an IG complaint and talk to your US Senator about it. Pushing you out, cheating you out of benefits due, is not only against the regulations, it is morally wrong.

Thank you for the info and support!
I will contact my doctor and see what he says.
It seems some of people thinks due to the fact I got US citizenship through join the Army, I must be trying to use a "not so serious condition" in order to "get out before contract end" and "cheat the system". I have another battle who has arteriovenous malformation that cause severe headache and temporarily paralyze right now has been told by a doctor it's not a big deal until he start to have seizures.
 

airbornemedic911

PEB Forum Regular Member
DISCLAIMER: it is known that foreigners have enlisted and once granted citizenship status are separated from the service. Is this being abused, sure is. Is this you, I don't know and can't tell, I am neutral in opinion.

Serving in command positions is not always easy and requires a lot of time and giving up time with their families, not all leaders are demons but there are still demons none the less. Your situation sounds like there's a lot going on in the background and makes it difficult in providing a really good assessment and solid recommendations.

Lemme ask you, are you presenting all pertinent info? Any counselings for poor performance, disrespect, UCMJ history?

Based upon what I've read, and in my opinion:

Leaders could be using the bullshit tactic of scare motivation. To be fair, if the unit initiates a CH13, I can't determine if they have been doing counseling and providing mentorship and if you have been receptive. Your the only one who knows if problems with discipline are substantiated, if not, their grounds for a CH13 will get its ass torn up by TDS and half intelligent legal counsellors for the higher command will advise whether it's warranted or whether it's baseless. They can disregard what their advisors say but that's why a Service Member has a right to legal counsel. A CH13 is not always negative, it is an administrative action used to separate someone with more than +180 days of active federal service. CH13 is pretty wide in its use, however, in order to recommend someone's character of service be Other Than Honorable there has to be cause or it's usually smacked down.

From a pure medical standpoint: asthma is a real condition, don't believe the hype. If it wasn't there would be no purpose of it being addressed in AR 40-501, and whether it's acceptable or unacceptable as discussed in CH3. Asthma is not just asthma as there are different factors as to causation. Let that shit go out the other ear and give it no mind as to what they say.

Asthma may be the result of allergies, consider your history of sinus issues etc, then consider whether you want to ask the PCM to refer you for allergen testing. There are method of treatments available, and may serve as to the diagnose and plan of action. If someone's allergies are bad it can contribute to asthma like symptoms, asthma or help get it under control. Have you undergone the actual test meant to diagnose asthmatic or not? You sit in the booth, person introduces antagonist agents that can trigger attacks. Have you also been administered a pulmonary functions test? Breathing volume measured before and after the administration of a rescue inhaler. Those hand held units are crap and less accurate than results by the machine.

What cardio event are you required to perform per your profile? Depending on how long you've had your profile there is a trial to enable a service member to prepare for record tests.

Are you still under the care of the PCM that gave you the options of MEB or permanent profile? If so, the PCM is already open to exploring the topic of the MEB, it's in your favor since they've already mentioned it. A medical separation or retirement is an honorable discharge. They can't change this fact, they know it too or they will realize they can't change the characterization of service as a result. It's unethical, improper and against regulation.

You sound like some of the people I came across, any chance you completed AIT at Fort Benning?
 

dmt.w

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
DISCLAIMER: it is known that foreigners have enlisted and once granted citizenship status are separated from the service. Is this being abused, sure is. Is this you, I don't know and can't tell, I am neutral in opinion.

Serving in command positions is not always easy and requires a lot of time and giving up time with their families, not all leaders are demons but there are still demons none the less. Your situation sounds like there's a lot going on in the background and makes it difficult in providing a really good assessment and solid recommendations.

Lemme ask you, are you presenting all pertinent info? Any counselings for poor performance, disrespect, UCMJ history?

Based upon what I've read, and in my opinion:

Leaders could be using the bullshit tactic of scare motivation. To be fair, if the unit initiates a CH13, I can't determine if they have been doing counseling and providing mentorship and if you have been receptive. Your the only one who knows if problems with discipline are substantiated, if not, their grounds for a CH13 will get its ass torn up by TDS and half intelligent legal counsellors for the higher command will advise whether it's warranted or whether it's baseless. They can disregard what their advisors say but that's why a Service Member has a right to legal counsel. A CH13 is not always negative, it is an administrative action used to separate someone with more than +180 days of active federal service. CH13 is pretty wide in its use, however, in order to recommend someone's character of service be Other Than Honorable there has to be cause or it's usually smacked down.

From a pure medical standpoint: asthma is a real condition, don't believe the hype. If it wasn't there would be no purpose of it being addressed in AR 40-501, and whether it's acceptable or unacceptable as discussed in CH3. Asthma is not just asthma as there are different factors as to causation. Let that shit go out the other ear and give it no mind as to what they say.

Asthma may be the result of allergies, consider your history of sinus issues etc, then consider whether you want to ask the PCM to refer you for allergen testing. There are method of treatments available, and may serve as to the diagnose and plan of action. If someone's allergies are bad it can contribute to asthma like symptoms, asthma or help get it under control. Have you undergone the actual test meant to diagnose asthmatic or not? You sit in the booth, person introduces antagonist agents that can trigger attacks. Have you also been administered a pulmonary functions test? Breathing volume measured before and after the administration of a rescue inhaler. Those hand held units are crap and less accurate than results by the machine.

What cardio event are you required to perform per your profile? Depending on how long you've had your profile there is a trial to enable a service member to prepare for record tests.

Are you still under the care of the PCM that gave you the options of MEB or permanent profile? If so, the PCM is already open to exploring the topic of the MEB, it's in your favor since they've already mentioned it. A medical separation or retirement is an honorable discharge. They can't change this fact, they know it too or they will realize they can't change the characterization of service as a result. It's unethical, improper and against regulation.

You sound like some of the people I came across, any chance you completed AIT at Fort Benning?

Thank you very much for the reply.
Sorry that I didn't reply earlier.

To answer you question:
I do not have any kind of counselings for poor performance, disrespect, UCMJ history. The only counseling I have states that I did a good job on certain mission.

There has not been actual action on the chapter 13 thing yet. I got the word that upper are talking about it from someone I'm on good term with works at ops.

For the asthma. I have went to pulmonary function test which came back normal. My doctor says that my condition is caused by over sensitive lung tissues that cramps and produce fluid which blocks portion of the bronchus and cause low function. And I've been told the more I irritate it the worse it'll get. At the lowest point, my lung function only measures about 70% of my normal amount.

My PCM has give me two types of inhalers and my permanent profile said that run, walk, march and ruck on my own pace and distant. It worked fine in the last year as I can pretty much do what I can. Unfortunately, there's an change of leadership at the beginning of the year. Now I will get yelled at if I can't go as certain speed that they think I should go, and I must go the distant as they assigned for the PT section. I think that's the main reason for my condition to gone worse as my lungs are irritated.

I'm still under the care of the PCM that gave me the options of MEB or permanent profile. I'm waiting on appointment to meet him and discuss the issue which is at the end of July. It usually take at least 2 month for anyone to meet their doctor on the post I'm at. I'll see what he's opinion is.

For AIT, I was at Fort Lee, VA.
 

airbornemedic911

PEB Forum Regular Member
The lack of "negative" counselings is a plus in favor of you. Adhere to your profile, follow-up with your PCM.

I'll never be a track star but I passed my alternate aerobic event of the APFT. I heard opinions as well, some people are unfortunately shallow and lack ability to express sympathy or completely aren't able to empathize with your own experiences. Do your best to stay positive, it seems you've been going the distance already so you got that squared away.

There is a lot of experience found within this site, use the resources available to you to learn about your rights, standards of medical fitness etc. You will be able to make some sound decisions with the information this site provides.
 

dmt.w

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
The lack of "negative" counselings is a plus in favor of you. Adhere to your profile, follow-up with your PCM.

I'll never be a track star but I passed my alternate aerobic event of the APFT. I heard opinions as well, some people are unfortunately shallow and lack ability to express sympathy or completely aren't able to empathize with your own experiences. Do your best to stay positive, it seems you've been going the distance already so you got that squared away.

There is a lot of experience found within this site, use the resources available to you to learn about your rights, standards of medical fitness etc. You will be able to make some sound decisions with the information this site provides.

Thank you for the advise. I'll for sure talk to my PCM.

This site has provided more insight and information than anywhere else combined. I deeply appreciated all your hard work to help people out. Thank you very much!

I'll update when there's new progress on my issue. :)
 
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