PRIOR AR OFFICER, NOW ENLISTED, RANK/PAY, & RETIREMENT ?

nwlivewire

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
TWO QUESTIONS.

Would really appreciate regulations (ARs, and everything/anything else that governs the answers to these two questions, too.)

1. Is this Servicemember CURRENTLY being paid correctly for YEARS OF SERVICE as an ENLISTED?

2. What retirement pay is in store for this Servicemember? Enlisted/Officer???

BACKGROUND:

1. Went to ROTC/college AFTER SEP 08, 1980.

2. Graduated/commissioned as Army RESERVE Officer AFTER SEP 08, 1980.

3. Served several "traditional" Reserve years (not full-time).

4. Successfully held rank of MAJOR (O-4).

5. Resigned OFFICER commission & took "break in service" for a couple of years. All under Honorable conditions. NOT EVER A BLEMISH.

6. Re-enlisted in the AR as ENLISTED. Went to the "sandbox" as an Enlisted.

7. Currently in IDES process and will receive either TDRL/PDRL.

8. Just rec'd AR 20-year retirement letter. Awaiting IDES rating (199).

His LES is showing Enlisted rank pay at ONLY SIX (6) YEARS.

1. Doesn't this Servicemember get credit for past years of service even though it was at Officer pay? Does his resignation of Commission VOID all past cumulative time in service for CURRENT Enlisted rank/pay purposes? Max pay for his current Enlisted pay/rank taps out at 10 years, but he is only being paid for 6 years time and grade, and he has just rec'd his 20-year retirement letter from the AR.

What regulation(s) governs this issue????

**********

As a former Officer, now an Enlisted, what regulations govern his pay computations when he is placed on TDRL/PDRL? There will be no question on this issue as to TDRL/PDRL. Severance, RTD, and COAR are NOT in his future.

All Officer time, including his O-4 time, was successfully held - without blemish. O-4 was as high as a rank he held, and he held it for two or three (2-3) years, but that was 10 years ago.

**********

Thank-you so much for any/all info and regulations you are able to provide.

I've tried to get him on this web-site, but he's too banged up in his head I guess. And of course, he's in a CB-WTU with not a rat's A$$ of care about him.

He really could use some help from the knowledgeable folks here on this FORUM.

Thank-you!

V/r,
nwlivewire
 

COLTONMD

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
This is what I found;

Date Initially Entered Military Service DIEMS between 8 Sep 80 and 31 Jul 86
HIGH-3 PAY PLAN
Years of service creditable for percentage purposes X 2-1/2% (not to exceed 75%) X average of highest 36 months of basic pay = Retired pay
In most cases (see exceptions below), under the High-3 formula, the basic pay base is the average of the monthly basic pay rates you received for the 36 months just before your retirement.
Commissioned officers who were formerly enlisted, who retire with less than 10 years of commissioned service and less than 30 years of total service, will use only enlisted basic pay in the calculation of their highest 36 months of basic pay (Section 1407, Title 10 USC). The enlisted basic pay corresponding to the member’s years of service for the 36 months before retirement will be used. Commissioned warrant officer time may be used to meet the 10-year commissioned service requirement.
 

nwlivewire

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
This is what I found;

Date Initially Entered Military Service DIEMS between 8 Sep 80 and 31 Jul 86
HIGH-3 PAY PLAN
Years of service creditable for percentage purposes X 2-1/2% (not to exceed 75%) X average of highest 36 months of basic pay = Retired pay
In most cases (see exceptions below), under the High-3 formula, the basic pay base is the average of the monthly basic pay rates you received for the 36 months just before your retirement.
Commissioned officers who were formerly enlisted, who retire with less than 10 years of commissioned service and less than 30 years of total service, will use only enlisted basic pay in the calculation of their highest 36 months of basic pay (Section 1407, Title 10 USC). The enlisted basic pay corresponding to the member’s years of service for the 36 months before retirement will be used. Commissioned warrant officer time may be used to meet the 10-year commissioned service requirement.

Thank-you ColtonMD. Got a regulation or other citation to go with your posting?

Also, what about my example as stated above, where this fellow served as an OFFICER and THEN became an Enlisted.

Is there a regulation/law that will allow him his "High - 3" based on his highest rank held during his career? Or, is this just another way to lower the retirement calculation on TDRL/PDRL to a former Officer, now Enlisted and injured?

The SM in my posting was an O-4, now a Sergeant (E-5). Does any of his Officer time count towards retirement pay calculations?

Also, what about his current pay as an E-5? The fellow has an LES that gives him his pay at 6 years, but he has just rec'd his 20-year retirement letter from the AR? Shouldn't his LES and DFAS be paying him the maximum monthly base pay for his current rank right now? Why only 6 years for pay when he has a 20-year retirement letter from the Reserves?

I wonder what department of the Army he needs to call up and get these important questions answered? He's soon to get his 199, so I suspect time is really of the essence here.

Thanks again MD and hope others chime in with data and citations on where they found it.

V/r,
nwlivewire
 

Jason Perry

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The DoDFMR should cover all of the issues. Don't have enough information from your post to provide further insight.
 

Jason Perry

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Without knowing all of his details, as a baseline "High 3" means what it says- if his O4 pay is his high 3, then that is what the calculation should be based on.
 

Gomez

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Here's excerpt from the DoD Financial Management Regulation that Jason referred to. Provides info on grade to use in retirement calculation.


2BDoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 1 *August 2012 23

0105 RANK AND PAY GRADE

010501. General Determination
A. Grade at Retirement. Unless entitled to a higher grade under some other provisions of law, those Regular and Reserve members who retire other than for disability will retire in the Regular or Reserve grade they hold on the date of retirement. See Volume 7A, COMPARABLE GRADES.

B. Time in Grade Requirement. A commissioned officer, other than a commissioned warrant officer, of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, who voluntarily retires in a grade above major or lieutenant commander, must serve on active duty in that grade for not less than 3 years. The President may waive this requirement in cases of hardship or exceptional or unusual circumstances. The Secretary of the Military Department concerned (or designee) may reduce the service-in-grade requirement to 2 years. This authority was made permanent under Public Law 108-136, section 506, dated November 24, 2003.

C. Retirement to the Next Lower Grade. An officer who does not meet the service-in-grade requirement retires in the next lower grade in which the member served on active duty satisfactorily for at least 6 months.

E. Reserve Officers

1. Unless entitled to a higher grade, or to credit for satisfactory service in a higher grade under some other provision of law, a member who becomes entitled to a non-Regular service Reserve retirement shall, upon application, receive credit for satisfactory service in the highest grade held in the Armed Forces, as determined by the Secretary of the Military Department concerned (or designee).

2. To receive credit for satisfactory service in a grade below lieutenant colonel or commander, other than a warrant officer grade, a member must serve satisfactorily in that grade, as determined by the Secretary of the Military Department concerned (or designee) as a Reserve commissioned officer in an active status, or in a retired status on active duty, for at least 6 months.

a. A member who completes at least 6 months of satisfactory service in grade, upon transfer from an active status or upon discharge as a Reserve commissioned officer for mandatory age or years of service, receives credit for satisfactory service in the grade in which serving at time of transfer or discharge in that grade.

b. If a member completes at least 6 months of satisfactory service in grade while serving as adjutant general under 32 U.S.C. 314 or as assistant adjutant general to such adjutant general, and the member is unable to complete 3 years of service in such grade because the appointment is terminated or vacated under 32 U.S.C. 324(b), then the member may be credited with satisfactory service in that grade.

c. The Secretary of the Military Department concerned (or designee) may allow credit in a higher grade to a member who has been recommended for promotion but before promotion to the recommended grade. Such credit may be allowed when a member who is in the next lower grade serves in a position after recommendation where the minimum authorized grade for the position the member is serving in is the higher grade to which the member is recommended for promotion. The period of service credit may not include any period before the date that the Senate provides advice and consent for the appointment in the recommended grade.

d. A member who qualifies for Federal recognition in a higher grade and then serves in that grade in a position for which the higher grade is the minimum authorized grade may receive credit for having served in that grade. The credit, determined by the Secretary of the Military Department concerned (or designee), is contingent upon the member being appointed as a Reserve officer in that grade. The service credit is allowed only for the period the member served in the position after Senate advice and consent for the appointment.

4. A member whose length of service in the highest grade held does not meet the service-in-grade requirements specified in this subparagraph receives credit for satisfactory service in the next lower grade in which the member serves satisfactorily for at least 6 months as determined by the Secretary of the Military Department concerned (or designee).

F. Grade on Retirement for Physical Disability. Unless entitled to a higher grade under some other provision of law, members of the Armed Forces who retire for disability are entitled to the highest of:

1. The grade or rank in which serving when placed on the Temporary Disability Retired List or, if not carried on that list, on date of retirement.

2. The highest temporary grade or rank in which member satisfactorily serves, as determined by the Secretary of the Armed Force from which he or she retired.

3. The permanent Regular or Reserve grade to which the member would have been promoted had it not been for the disability for which the member is retired that was found upon physical examination.

4. The temporary grade to which the member would have been promoted had it not been for the disability for which the member is retired, if eligibility for that promotion was required based on the cumulative years of service or years of service in grade, and the disability was found upon physical examination.
 

klamsnacks

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Is this not the key argument breaker for the question at hand?

...Commissioned officers who were formerly enlisted, who retire with less than 10 years of commissioned service and less than 30 years of total service, will use only enlisted basic pay in the calculation of their highest 36 months of basic pay (Section 1407, Title 10 USC)...

How many years did he have as an Officer vs Enlisted? Would be my question...

Then does it fall within the 10 years commisioned AND less than 30....

I don't know how this is calculated when you have someone close too, like what if he had the 10 years and 1 month - but only 27 years total service? No expert on this matter - I would guess he get's the Officer Pay as his calculated pay in my scenario, but your individual probably would be his enlisted pay. I received a grade determination upon retirement of SrA - lost all appeals for my SSgt Stripe - Air Force officially retired me as SrA, but DFAS pays me as SSgt (I've called and told them my rank is wrong on their documentation twice, they don't get a third call) - and used my high 3 SSgt pay years, vs the last year and a half of demoted status.

-Scott
 

SquireF14

Member
Registered Member
I am a former Naval Officer (Reserve Commission) who was on Active Duty from 27JUL1982 to 31JAN1994. I enlisted in the Army Reserves on 27SEP2007 and am currently on Active Duty. My LES reflects 21 years for pay. That reflects time on Navy Active Duty, the IRR and the Army Reserve. I believe this individual, based on the information in your first post, is NOT being paid correctly. My termination from the Navy was a Reduction In Force after the end of the Cold War.

For retirement, look at AR135-180, Chapter 2, Paragraph 11:

2–11 Computation of retired pay
a.
Retired pay will be computed by the Retired Pay Division, U.S. Army Finance Support Agency, Indianapolis, IN

46249, upon receipt of orders and data prescribed in paragraph 2–10, from the CG, ARPERCEN. (See AR 37–104–1.)

A person granted retired pay will receive such pay at an annual rate equal to 21/2 percent of the active duty

annual basic pay which the individual would receive if serving on active duty, on the effective date of granting of

retired pay, in the highest grade (temporary or permanent) satisfactorily held by him during his or her entire period of

service multiplied by a number equal to the number of years, and any fraction thereof, on the basis of 360 days per

year (years for percentage purposes) as determined pursuant to paragraph 2–10. No person will be entitled to receive

retired pay at an annual ratein excess of 75 percent of the above–mentioned active duty annual pay. (See AR

37–104–1, chap 5.)

The Retired Activities Directorate, ARPERCEN will screen each retirement applicant’s record to determine the

highest grade held by him or her during his or her military service. In arriving at the highest grade satisfactorily held,

the following criteria will apply:

(1) If the soldier was transferred to the Retired Reserve or discharged prior to 25 February 1975, retired grade will

be that which the soldier held at time of transfer to the Retired Reserve or discharge, unless the soldier held a higher

grade at least 185 days or six calendar months on active duty or in an active reserve status as a commissioned officer

or enlisted soldier. If higher grade held was that of a warrant officer, soldier must have served on active duty or in an

active reserve status for at least 31 days.

(2) If the soldier was transferred to the Retired Reserve or discharged on or after 25 February 1975, retired grade

will be that grade which a commissioned officer or enlisted soldier held while on active duty or in an active reserve

status for at least 185 days or six calendar months. A warrant officer must have served on active duty or in an active

reserve status for at least 31 days.

(3) Service in the highest grade will not be deemed satisfactory and the case will be forwarded to the Secretary of

the Army’s Ad Hoc Review Board for final determination of the soldier’s retirement grade if, during the mandatoryreview

of the soldier’s records by the Retired Activities Directorate, ARPERCEN, it is determined that any of

the following factors exist:

Revision to a lower grade was expressly for prejudice or cause, due to misconduct, or punishment pursuant to

Article 15, UCMJ, or court-martial; or

There is information in the soldier’s service record to indicate clearly that the highest grade was not served

satisfactorily.
The date of this AR is 01JUL1987, so some new rules may apply such as earlier retirement for time served in support of contingency operations
Hope this helps
Squire
 

nwlivewire

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
I am a former Naval Officer (Reserve Commission) who was on Active Duty from 27JUL1982 to 31JAN1994. I enlisted in the Army Reserves on 27SEP2007 and am currently on Active Duty. My LES reflects 21 years for pay. That reflects time on Navy Active Duty, the IRR and the Army Reserve. I believe this individual, based on the information in your first post, is NOT being paid correctly. My termination from the Navy was a Reduction In Force after the end of the Cold War.

For retirement, look at AR135-180, Chapter 2, Paragraph 11:

2–11 Computation of retired pay
a.
Retired pay will be computed by the Retired Pay Division, U.S. Army Finance Support Agency, Indianapolis, IN

46249, upon receipt of orders and data prescribed in paragraph 2–10, from the CG, ARPERCEN. (See AR 37–104–1.)

A person granted retired pay will receive such pay at an annual rate equal to 21/2 percent of the active duty

annual basic pay which the individual would receive if serving on active duty, on the effective date of granting of

retired pay, in the highest grade (temporary or permanent) satisfactorily held by him during his or her entire period of

service multiplied by a number equal to the number of years, and any fraction thereof, on the basis of 360 days per

year (years for percentage purposes) as determined pursuant to paragraph 2–10. No person will be entitled to receive

retired pay at an annual ratein excess of 75 percent of the above–mentioned active duty annual pay. (See AR

37–104–1, chap 5.)

The Retired Activities Directorate, ARPERCEN will screen each retirement applicant’s record to determine the

highest grade held by him or her during his or her military service. In arriving at the highest grade satisfactorily held,

the following criteria will apply:

(1) If the soldier was transferred to the Retired Reserve or discharged prior to 25 February 1975, retired grade will

be that which the soldier held at time of transfer to the Retired Reserve or discharge, unless the soldier held a higher

grade at least 185 days or six calendar months on active duty or in an active reserve status as a commissioned officer

or enlisted soldier. If higher grade held was that of a warrant officer, soldier must have served on active duty or in an

active reserve status for at least 31 days.

(2) If the soldier was transferred to the Retired Reserve or discharged on or after 25 February 1975, retired grade

will be that grade which a commissioned officer or enlisted soldier held while on active duty or in an active reserve

status for at least 185 days or six calendar months. A warrant officer must have served on active duty or in an active

reserve status for at least 31 days.

(3) Service in the highest grade will not be deemed satisfactory and the case will be forwarded to the Secretary of

the Army’s Ad Hoc Review Board for final determination of the soldier’s retirement grade if, during the mandatoryreview

of the soldier’s records by the Retired Activities Directorate, ARPERCEN, it is determined that any of

the following factors exist:

Revision to a lower grade was expressly for prejudice or cause, due to misconduct, or punishment pursuant to

Article 15, UCMJ, or court-martial; or

There is information in the soldier’s service record to indicate clearly that the highest grade was not served

satisfactorily.
The date of this AR is 01JUL1987, so some new rules may apply such as earlier retirement for time served in support of contingency operations
Hope this helps
Squire

THANK-YOU SQUIRE!!!!

WELL DONE!!

I will pass this along immediately via email to this Servicemember. He will need to now and act on this quickly.

Again, thank-you for this data.

V/r,
nwlivewire
 

Gomez

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
I'm no expert in this area, but I found the following reg that may be helpful for part of your question. My understanding is that he will continue as enlisted until the end part of the IDES process at which time his case will be referred to the AGDRB for a grade determination and be reverted to an O4 for his pay grade that will apply for determining his pay during his retirement.

Army Regulation 15-80, Army Grade Determination Review Board (AGDRB),
3–3.
Physical disability cases
An enlisted soldier being processed for physical disability separation or disability retirement, not currently serving in
the highest grade served, will be referred to the AGDRB for a grade determination, unless the soldier is entitled to a
higher or equal grade by operation of law (sections 1212 and 1372, title 10, United States Code (10 USC 1212 and
1372)).
 

nwlivewire

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
I'm no expert in this area, but I found the following reg that may be helpful for part of your question. My understanding is that he will continue as enlisted until the end part of the IDES process at which time his case will be referred to the AGDRB for a grade determination and be reverted to an O4 for his pay grade that will apply for determining his pay during his retirement.

Army Regulation 15-80, Army Grade Determination Review Board (AGDRB),
3–3.
Physical disability cases
An enlisted soldier being processed for physical disability separation or disability retirement, not currently serving in
the highest grade served, will be referred to the AGDRB for a grade determination, unless the soldier is entitled to a
higher or equal grade by operation of law (sections 1212 and 1372, title 10, United States Code (10 USC 1212 and
1372)).

Thank-you again! GREAT research diggins!

I will forward this to him and ask him to get ahold of the AGDRB Office and see what types of pay "evidence" he needs to prove his case.

Hopefully, all his Reserve time held as Major will qualify, even though he did NOT serve as an AD Major, nor did he serve on AD orders as a Major except during the 15 days he did his once-a-year annual training times. Hope he qualifies for the higher computation figure for his disability retirement.

Thanks!

nwlivewire
 

Gomez

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
When I went through IDES as enlisted National Guard, after signing my DA Form 199, I made sure my PEBLO sent them my old prior promotion order and promotion certificate showing that I had been at a higher officer rank while in the reserves 10 years ago. The AGDRB at the PDA then determined my highest rank and sent my PEBLO a letter showing my highest rank as the higher officer rank from when I was in the reserves. I sent the documentation just to be sure my pay was calculated on my highest rank rather than my current enlisted rank.
 

Warrior644

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When I went through IDES as enlisted National Guard, after signing my DA Form 199, I made sure my PEBLO sent them my old prior promotion order and promotion certificate showing that I had been at a higher officer rank while in the reserves 10 years ago. The AGDRB at the PDA then determined my highest rank and sent my PEBLO a letter showing my highest rank as the higher officer rank from when I was in the reserves. I sent the documentation just to be sure my pay was calculated on my highest rank rather than my current enlisted rank.

After reading all of the posts within the thread, this is a unique good-news story. :)

Thus, possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer.

Best Wishes!
 

Gomez

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
I recently reached the end step in the IDES process after receiving PDRL. PDA cut my retirement orders showing that I am to be retired at my highest rank and that I am to be permanently retired in 20 days. They sent copies of the retirement orders to me and to my state National Guard medical coordinator. I went to state HQ and filled out and submitted a DD Form 2656 (Data for Payment of Retired Personnel) to DFAS to start my retirement pay. I was surprised when I was told that my National Guard RPAM points don't even go forward to DFAS since they calculate disability retired pay based on years of service rather than points. I've also gone to DEERS where I was issued a new blue retiree card that shows my highest rank as an officer rather than my enlisted rank. Lesson learned: be proactive in making sure PDA is made aware of your highest rank and that it is reflected on your retirement orders.
 

Warrior644

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I recently reached the end step in the IDES process after receiving PDRL. PDA cut my retirement orders showing that I am to be retired at my highest rank and that I am to be permanently retired in 20 days. They sent copies of the retirement orders to me and to my state National Guard medical coordinator. I went to state HQ and filled out and submitted a DD Form 2656 (Data for Payment of Retired Personnel) to DFAS to start my retirement pay. I was surprised when I was told that my National Guard RPAM points don't even go forward to DFAS since they calculate disability retired pay based on years of service rather than points. I've also gone to DEERS where I was issued a new blue retiree card that shows my highest rank as an officer rather than my enlisted rank. Lesson learned: be proactive in making sure PDA is made aware of your highest rank and that it is reflected on your retirement orders.

Case in point! Now, this is definitely a good-news story. :)

That said, congratulations and enjoy your military retirement! :D

Thus, possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer.

Best Wishes!
 

Dave_RETIRED

Member
Registered Member
To All,
This is my retirement nightmare:

My case is not PEB, but a 20yr voluntary retirement. I went through Ft Riley, KS. for my last 10 months in Army
and retired. I am still fighting to retire as an officer and not as an SSG. I have been retired 18 months and still fighting the well meaning people at HRC, ARNG, RSO. My career is similar to what NWLIVEWIRE described in their post.

•I enlisted in the U. S. Navy in SEP 1974. I became a career naval officer MAY 1981, USN-regular navy, with over ten years of commissioned service, until JAN 1992.
• After joining the MN ARNG, 2004, I voluntary retired 01MAR2012. I did two tours in Iraq and 10 months at Ft Riley and ended 20 plus years of active federal service. RSO Ft Riley and HRC retired me as an as an enlisted man with over 20 years active Federal Service. I had all the appointment orders and documentation to support my honorable Naval Service and Honorable military service. I feel like I was railroaded out of the Army.

My two congress people here in MN have been working on this for 6 months with no joy.

I finally had someone at HRC tell me to fill out an SF 180 and email it to [email protected].

I feel that my retirement process went from a contract of adhesion to the classic story of Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, And Nobody.


This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody. There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job. Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it. It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.


Aug 22, 2013, SF 180 request sent to: [email protected] , in an attempt to resolve this matter.

Please read the following Title 10 sections of codified law of the United States.

10 USC 3961, 10 USC 3911, 10 USC 3926, and 10 USC 1370. I feel these are the laws that should have governed my retirement. ALL OF MY SERVICE IS: 20 + years of ACTIVE FEDERAL SERVICE, all title 10. 10 yrs, 08 months as a commissioned officer USN- ACTIVE DUTY.


TITLE 10Sec. 3961. General rule

• -STATUTE-
(a) The retired grade of a regular commissioned officer of the
Army who retires other than for physical disability, and the
retired grade of a reserve commissioned officer of the Army who
retires other than for physical disability, is determined under
section 1370 of this title.(b) Unless entitled to a higher retired grade under some other
provision of law
, a Regular or Reserve of the Army not covered by
subsection (a) who retires other than for physical disability

retires in the regular or reserve grade that he holds on the date
of his retirement.


TITLE 10RETIREMENT FOR LENGTH OF SERVICE Sec. 3911. Twenty years or more: regular or reserve commissioned officers

-STATUTE-

(a) The Secretary of the Army may, upon the officer's request, retire a regular or reserve commissioned officer of the Army who has at least 20 years of service computed under section 3926 of this title, at least 10 years of which have been active service as a commissioned officer.

(b)(1) The Secretary of Defense may authorize the Secretary of the Army, during the period specified in paragraph (2), to reduce the requirement under subsection (a) for at least 10 years of active service as a commissioned officer to a period (determined by the Secretary of the Army) of not less than eight years.

(2) The period specified in this paragraph is the period beginning on the date of the enactment of the Ike Skelton National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2011 and ending on September 30, 2013.

10 USC 3911 provides the legal authority for the length of service retirement of commissioned officers who have completed twenty years or more years of active military service. It states, in pertinent part, that a commissioned officer of the Army may request retirement upon the completion of at least 20 years of service, at least 10 years of which have been active service as a commissioned officer. 3911 depends on section 3926, since that revised section, (10 USC 3926), makes explicit the service covered in order to retire under section 3911. 10 USC 3911 does not state that you must currently be in a commissioned status on the active duty list. I was a regular navy, USN, commissioned officer for 10 Plus years and retired with over 20 years of service as computed under 10 USC 3926 (a) and (a)(2).

So if I satisfy the requirements of 10 USC 3926, which is the key to me retiring as an officer, I should satisfy 10 USC 3911 and 10 USC 1370 for retiring as an officer. I feel I should never have been retired as an enlisted man and my officer retirement should have been automatic.

AR 600-8-24

Overview

6–1. The officer retirement program

a. This chapter applies to nondisability retirement of ADL commissioned and warrant officers on AD to include

AGR commissioned and warrant officers who have 20 years or more of AFS.

b. A commissioned officer, in the rank of major and below may retire in the highest rank served satisfactorily on

AD for 6 or more months unless entitled by law to a higher grade (Title 10, United States Code, Section 1370(a)(1),).

Historical And Revision Notes for section 3911

• Revised Source (U.S. Code) Source (Statutes at section Large)
3911 10:943a. July 31, 1935, ch. 422, Sec. 5 (1st 101 words); restated June 13, 1940, ch. 344, Sec. 3 (1st 45 words), 54 Stat. 380; June 29, 1948, ch. 708, Sec. 202 (1st 105 words), 62 Stat. 1084; July 16, 1953, ch. 203, 67 Stat. 175. 10:971b (1st 100 words).

The words "a regular or reserve commissioned officer of the Army" are substituted for the words "any officer on the active list of the Regular Army * * * or any officer of the reserve components of the Army of the United States". The words "Philippine Scouts" are omitted as obsolete.

The words "has at least 20" are substituted for the words "shall have completed not less than twenty". The words "upon the officer's request" are substituted for the words "upon his own application". The words "service computed under section 3926 of this title" are substituted for the words "active Federal service in the armed forces of the United States", since that revised section makes explicit the service covered.
AMENDMENTS 2000 - Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 106-398 substituted "December 31, 2001" for "September 30, 2001". 1998 - Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 105-261 substituted "during the period beginning on October 1, 1990, and ending on September 30, 2001" for "during the nine-year period beginning on October 1, 1990." 1993 - Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 103-160 substituted "nine-year period" for "five-year period". 1990 - Pub. L. 101-510 designated existing provisions as subsec. (a) and added subsec. (b). TEMPORARY EARLY RETIREMENT AUTHORITY For provisions authorizing the Secretary of the Army, during the period beginning Oct. 23, 1992, and ending Oct. 1, 1995, to apply this section to a regular or reserve commissioned officer with at least 15 but less than 20 years of service by substituting "at least 15 years" for "at least 20 years" in subsec. (a) of this section, see section 4403 of Pub. L. 102-484, set out as a note under section 1293 of this title.

Section Referred To In Other Sections

This section is referred to in sections 631, 632, 637, 638, 638a, 688, 1370, 1406, 3926, 10154, 12646 of this title.


Par 6-2b. "Retired pay is computedaccording to pay formulas in Title 10, United States Code, chapters 71 and 371; provisions contained in the retirement law; and according to title 37 of U.S. Code."

Par 6-13c. "Guidance for retirement at 20 years of service is listed as follows:

(1) An RA or USAR commissioned officer with 20 years AFS (of which 10 years is active commissioned service may on their request and the approval of Secretary of the Army be retired (10 USC 3911). A USAR officer does not have to be serving on AD in commissioned status or in an active USAR status to be eligible under this paragraph."

Title 10 USC § 3926- Computation of years of service: voluntary retirement; regular and reserve commissioned officers

• (a) For the purpose of determining whether an officer of the Army may be retired under section 3911, 3918, or 3924 of this title, his years of service are computed by adding—

• (1) all active service performed as a member of the Army or the Air Force;

• (2) all service in the Navy or Marine Corps that may be included in determining the eligibility of an officer of the Navy or Marine Corps for retirement;

• (3) all service computed under section 3683[1]of this title; and

• (4) if an officer of the Regular Army, all active service performed as an officer of the Philippine Constabulary.

As per 10 USC 3926 (a)(2) My 10 years 08 months as a regular commissioned naval officer, USN, should count toward officer retirement and essentially satisfy the required 10 years requirement of commissioned service: 10 USC 3911, 10 USC 3926, and 10 USC 1370. All my officer time was completed in the Navy as per 10 USC § 3926 (a) (2).



10 USC 1370. Commissioned officers: general rule; exceptions

• (a) RULE FOR RETIREMENT IN HIGHEST GRADE

HELD SATISFACTORILY.—(1) Unless entitled to a

• higher retired grade under some other provision

• of law, a commissioned officer (other than a

• commissioned warrant officer) of the Army,

Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps who retires

under any provision of lawother than chapter 61

• or chapter 1223 of this title shall, except as provided

• in paragraph (2), be retired in the highest

• grade in which he served on active duty satisfactorily,

• as determined by the Secretary of the

• military department concerned, for not less than six months.

10 USC 1370 provides the legal authority for the assignment of retired grades to commissioned officers. It states, in pertinent part, that commissioned officers of the Army, in the pay grades 0-1 through 0-3, may be retired in the highest grade held and in which they satisfactorily served on active duty for not less than six months.

Also, DOD Pay manual: VOLUME 7B, CHAPTER 1“INITIAL ENTITLEMENTS – RETIREMENTS”

010502. Special Provisions

B. Regular and Reserve commissioned officers of the Army and Air Force are entitled to the grade equal to the highest temporary grade in which they served on active duty satisfactorily for not less than 6 months. See exception in subparagraph 010501.B.

C. Where an existing statute authorizes computation of pay on the basis of a grade in which the member served satisfactorily that is higher than the pay of the grade otherwise entitled; computation is based on the higher grade:

1. Without regard to whether that grade was temporary or permanent.

2. Even though the Military Service in which the member held that higher grade is not the Military Service in which retired.


10 USC § 101 - Definitions

• (d) Duty Status.— The following definitions relating to duty status apply in this title:

• (1) The term “active duty” means full-time duty in the active military service of the United States. Such term includes full-time training duty, annual training duty, and attendance, while in the active military service, at a school designated as a service school by law or by the Secretary of the military department concerned. Such term does not include full-time National Guard duty.

• (2) The term “active duty for a period of more than 30 days” means active duty under a call or order that does not specify a period of 30 days or less.

• (3) The term “active service” means service on active duty or full-time National Guard duty.

• (4) The term “active status” means the status of a member of a reserve component who is not in the inactive Army National Guard or inactive Air National Guard, on an inactive status list, or in the Retired Reserve.

• (5) The term “full-time National Guard duty” means training or other duty, other than inactive duty, performed by a member of the Army National Guard of the United States or the Air National Guard of the United States in the member’s status as a member of the National Guard of a State or territory, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the District of Columbia under section 316, 502, 503, 504, or 505of title 32for which the member is entitled to pay from the United States or for which the member has waived pay from the United States.

• (6) (A) The term “active Guard and Reserve duty” means active duty performed by a member of a reserve component of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, or full-time National Guard duty performed by a member of the National Guard pursuant to an order to full-time National Guard duty, for a period of 180 consecutive days or more for the purpose of organizing, administering, recruiting, instructing, or training the reserve components.

• (B) Such term does not include the following: (i) Duty performed as a member of the Reserve Forces Policy Board provided for under section 10301 of this title.

• (ii) Duty performed as a property and fiscal officer under section 708 of title 32.

• (iii) Duty performed for the purpose of interdiction and counter-drug activities for which funds have been provided under section 112 of title 32.

• (iv) Duty performed as a general or flag officer.

• (v) Service as a State director of the Selective Service System under section 10(b)(2) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 App. U.S.C. 460(b)(2)).

• (7) The term “inactive-duty training” means— (A) duty prescribed for Reserves by the Secretary concerned under section 206 of title 37 or any other provision of law; and

• (B) special additional duties authorized for Reserves by an authority designated by the Secretary concerned and performed by them on a voluntary basis in connection with the prescribed training or maintenance activities of the units to which they are assigned. Such term includes those duties when performed by Reserves in their status as members of the National Guard.

10 USC § 3964 - Higher grade after 30 years of service: warrant officers and enlisted members

• (a) Each retired member of the Army covered by subsection (b) who is retired with less than 30 years of active service is entitled, when his active service plus his service on the retired list totals 30 years, to be advanced on the retired list to the highest grade in which he served on active duty satisfactorily (or, in the case of a member of the National Guard, in which he served on full-time duty satisfactorily), as determined by the Secretary of the Army.

• (b) This section applies to

– (1) warrant officers of the Army;

– (2) enlisted members of the Regular Army; and

– (3) reserve enlisted members of the Army who, at the time of retirement, are serving on active duty (or, in the case of members of the National Guard, on full-time National Guard duty).

In my case, I feel 10 USC 3964 should not even apply. Specifically 10 USC 3964 b (3). At time of my retirement I was National Guard on Active Duty Title 10 NOT full-time National Guard Duty, which by definition is Title 32. 10 USC § 3964 should not apply to my situation since I was MN ARNG on Active Duty not onfull-Time National Guard Duty.

This is what AGDRB AR 15-80 states:

Chapter 3
Enlisted Personnel Grade Determinations
3–1. General
For enlisted cases, the AGDRB will make final determinations on behalf of the SA. It will determine the highest grade
in which a soldier has served satisfactorily for purposes of service/physical disability retirement, computation of retired
pay (10 USC 1406 or 1407), or separation for physical disability. While enlisted soldiers may be reduced in grade by
courts-martial, nonjudicial punishment proceedings (UCMJ, Art. 15), administrative separation proceedings, or inefficiency
boards, enlisted grade determinations cannot result in reduction of an enlisted soldier’s or retiree’s current grade.
Enlisted grade determinations will result in either a decision to retain the individual’s current grade or to advance to a
higher grade in which the individual satisfactorily served.
3–2. Thirty-year cases
a. Section 3964, title 10, United States Code (10 USC 3964) entitles certain retired members of the Army who are
retired with fewer than 30 years of active service, when such member’s active service plus service on the retired list
totals 30 years, to be advanced on the retired list to the highest grade served on active duty satisfactorily. The AGDRB
reviews each case individually to determine the highest grade served on active duty satisfactorily. This is not an
automatic advancement on the retired list. Section 3964 does not apply in retirement fornonregular service (reserve
retirement) cases when the retiree was not on active duty (or, in the case of members of the National Guard, when the
retiree was not on full-time National Guard duty) at the time of retirement. Section 3964 applies towarrant officers of
the Army; enlisted members of the Regular Army; and reserve enlisted members of the Army who, at the time of
retirement, were serving on active duty (or, in the case of members of the National Guard, were on full-time National
Guard duty
)
. These individuals are eligible for advancement on the retired list when their active service plus service on
the retired list totals 30 years. Individuals to be placed on the retired list with at least 30 years of active service will be
considered for immediate advancement on the retired list. “Highest grade served on active duty” is the grade to which a
soldier was actually promoted and paid pursuant to a lawful promotion. If the highest or intermediate grade was an
officer grade, the statutory TIG requirements for that grade must also be met to be deemed satisfactory (see para 2–4c).

“Highest grade served on active duty” does not include merely being in a promotable status or serving in, “acting,” or
holding a position or job title authorized at a higher grade, such as acting first sergeant or acting sergeant major.
b. Thirty-year cases are the only type of grade determinations that can be initiated by the individual concerned.Grade determinations for individuals retired for nonregular service under 10 USC 12731 (reserve component retirement
at age 60) are conducted automatically by AR–PERSCOM and other separation authorities when individuals are placed
on the retired list. Some 30-year cases, however, must be initiated by a written request from the retiree concerned.
When a reduction from the highest grade served was caused by misconduct, inefficiency, or for cause, the retiree must
initiate the grade determination process at the 30-year mark or later. In such cases, the retiree is presumed not to have
served satisfactorily in the higher grade; therefore, the retiree must request to initiate a grade determination review if
the retiree believes advancement is appropriate. In all other 30-year cases, the retirement authority will initiate the
grade determination process at the time of retirement. Retirement authorities will initiate these grade determinations
beginning with retirements occurring no later than 6 months after the effective date of this regulation. For retirements
occurring before that date, individuals must initiate the grade determination process. Regardless of when the 30-year
grade determination is accomplished, any resulting advancement on the retired list will not be effective until the 30-
year mark. Figure 3–1 provides a sample application to initiate a 30-year grade determination. An individual whose
grade was not determined at the time of retirement will mail an application to Army Review Boards Agency Support
Division; ATTN: SFMR–RBR–SL; St. Louis, MO 63132–5200. That division will attach the applicant’s military
records and forward the application to the AGDRB for consideration. In the case of an individual whose grade is being
determined at the time of retirement, retirement authorities will send the application to CG, PERSCOM, ATTN:
TAPC–PDT–R, 200 Stovall St., Alexandria, VA 22332–0444.







I feel that the Army representatives incorrectly applied the sections of Title 10 law to my retirement, also they missed my last 08 months at the Naval Academy and I am shorted eight months of service on the enlisted side of retirement.
I am able to meet you anytime to explain my position or go over the laws.





V/R,


Dave
 

nwlivewire

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
To All,
This is my retirement nightmare:

My case is not PEB, but a 20yr voluntary retirement. I went through Ft Riley, KS. for my last 10 months in Army
and retired. I am still fighting to retire as an officer and not as an SSG. I have been retired 18 months and still fighting the well meaning people at HRC, ARNG, RSO. My career is similar to what NWLIVEWIRE described in their post.

•I enlisted in the U. S. Navy in SEP 1974. I became a career naval officer MAY 1981, USN-regular navy, with over ten years of commissioned service, until JAN 1992.
• After joining the MN ARNG, 2004, I voluntary retired 01MAR2012. I did two tours in Iraq and 10 months at Ft Riley and ended 20 plus years of active federal service. RSO Ft Riley and HRC retired me as an as an enlisted man with over 20 years active Federal Service. I had all the appointment orders and documentation to support my honorable Naval Service and Honorable military service. I feel like I was railroaded out of the Army.

My two congress people here in MN have been working on this for 6 months with no joy.

I finally had someone at HRC tell me to fill out an SF 180 and email it to [email protected].

I feel that my retirement process went from a contract of adhesion to the classic story of Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, And Nobody.


This is a little story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody, and Nobody. There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that because it was Everybody's job. Everybody thought that Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it. It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.


Aug 22, 2013, SF 180 request sent to: [email protected] , in an attempt to resolve this matter.

Please read the following Title 10 sections of codified law of the United States.

10 USC 3961, 10 USC 3911, 10 USC 3926, and 10 USC 1370. I feel these are the laws that should have governed my retirement. ALL OF MY SERVICE IS: 20 + years of ACTIVE FEDERAL SERVICE, all title 10. 10 yrs, 08 months as a commissioned officer USN- ACTIVE DUTY.


TITLE 10Sec. 3961. General rule

• -STATUTE-
(a) The retired grade of a regular commissioned officer of the
Army who retires other than for physical disability, and the
retired grade of a reserve commissioned officer of the Army who
retires other than for physical disability, is determined under
section 1370 of this title.(b) Unless entitled to a higher retired grade under some other
provision of law
, a Regular or Reserve of the Army not covered by
subsection (a) who retires other than for physical disability

retires in the regular or reserve grade that he holds on the date
of his retirement.

TITLE 10RETIREMENT FOR LENGTH OF SERVICE Sec. 3911. Twenty years or more: regular or reserve commissioned officers

-STATUTE-

(a) The Secretary of the Army may, upon the officer's request, retire a regular or reserve commissioned officer of the Army who has at least 20 years of service computed under section 3926 of this title, at least 10 years of which have been active service as a commissioned officer.

(b)(1) The Secretary of Defense may authorize the Secretary of the Army, during the period specified in paragraph (2), to reduce the requirement under subsection (a) for at least 10 years of active service as a commissioned officer to a period (determined by the Secretary of the Army) of not less than eight years.

(2) The period specified in this paragraph is the period beginning on the date of the enactment of the Ike Skelton National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2011 and ending on September 30, 2013.

10 USC 3911 provides the legal authority for the length of service retirement of commissioned officers who have completed twenty years or more years of active military service. It states, in pertinent part, that a commissioned officer of the Army may request retirement upon the completion of at least 20 years of service, at least 10 years of which have been active service as a commissioned officer. 3911 depends on section 3926, since that revised section, (10 USC 3926), makes explicit the service covered in order to retire under section 3911. 10 USC 3911 does not state that you must currently be in a commissioned status on the active duty list. I was a regular navy, USN, commissioned officer for 10 Plus years and retired with over 20 years of service as computed under 10 USC 3926 (a) and (a)(2).

So if I satisfy the requirements of 10 USC 3926, which is the key to me retiring as an officer, I should satisfy 10 USC 3911 and 10 USC 1370 for retiring as an officer. I feel I should never have been retired as an enlisted man and my officer retirement should have been automatic.

AR 600-8-24

Overview

6–1. The officer retirement program

a. This chapter applies to nondisability retirement of ADL commissioned and warrant officers on AD to include

AGR commissioned and warrant officers who have 20 years or more of AFS.

b. A commissioned officer, in the rank of major and below may retire in the highest rank served satisfactorily on

AD for 6 or more months unless entitled by law to a higher grade (Title 10, United States Code, Section 1370(a)(1),).

Historical And Revision Notes for section 3911

• Revised Source (U.S. Code) Source (Statutes at section Large)
3911 10:943a. July 31, 1935, ch. 422, Sec. 5 (1st 101 words); restated June 13, 1940, ch. 344, Sec. 3 (1st 45 words), 54 Stat. 380; June 29, 1948, ch. 708, Sec. 202 (1st 105 words), 62 Stat. 1084; July 16, 1953, ch. 203, 67 Stat. 175. 10:971b (1st 100 words).

The words "a regular or reserve commissioned officer of the Army" are substituted for the words "any officer on the active list of the Regular Army * * * or any officer of the reserve components of the Army of the United States". The words "Philippine Scouts" are omitted as obsolete.

The words "has at least 20" are substituted for the words "shall have completed not less than twenty". The words "upon the officer's request" are substituted for the words "upon his own application". The words "service computed under section 3926 of this title" are substituted for the words "active Federal service in the armed forces of the United States", since that revised section makes explicit the service covered.
AMENDMENTS 2000 - Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 106-398 substituted "December 31, 2001" for "September 30, 2001". 1998 - Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 105-261 substituted "during the period beginning on October 1, 1990, and ending on September 30, 2001" for "during the nine-year period beginning on October 1, 1990." 1993 - Subsec. (b). Pub. L. 103-160 substituted "nine-year period" for "five-year period". 1990 - Pub. L. 101-510 designated existing provisions as subsec. (a) and added subsec. (b). TEMPORARY EARLY RETIREMENT AUTHORITY For provisions authorizing the Secretary of the Army, during the period beginning Oct. 23, 1992, and ending Oct. 1, 1995, to apply this section to a regular or reserve commissioned officer with at least 15 but less than 20 years of service by substituting "at least 15 years" for "at least 20 years" in subsec. (a) of this section, see section 4403 of Pub. L. 102-484, set out as a note under section 1293 of this title.

Section Referred To In Other Sections

This section is referred to in sections 631, 632, 637, 638, 638a, 688, 1370, 1406, 3926, 10154, 12646 of this title.

Par 6-2b. "Retired pay is computedaccording to pay formulas in Title 10, United States Code, chapters 71 and 371; provisions contained in the retirement law; and according to title 37 of U.S. Code."

Par 6-13c. "Guidance for retirement at 20 years of service is listed as follows:

(1) An RA or USAR commissioned officer with 20 years AFS (of which 10 years is active commissioned service may on their request and the approval of Secretary of the Army be retired (10 USC 3911). A USAR officer does not have to be serving on AD in commissioned status or in an active USAR status to be eligible under this paragraph."

Title 10 USC § 3926- Computation of years of service: voluntary retirement; regular and reserve commissioned officers

• (a) For the purpose of determining whether an officer of the Army may be retired under section 3911, 3918, or 3924 of this title, his years of service are computed by adding—

• (1) all active service performed as a member of the Army or the Air Force;

• (2) all service in the Navy or Marine Corps that may be included in determining the eligibility of an officer of the Navy or Marine Corps for retirement;

• (3) all service computed under section 3683[1]of this title; and

• (4) if an officer of the Regular Army, all active service performed as an officer of the Philippine Constabulary.

As per 10 USC 3926 (a)(2) My 10 years 08 months as a regular commissioned naval officer, USN, should count toward officer retirement and essentially satisfy the required 10 years requirement of commissioned service: 10 USC 3911, 10 USC 3926, and 10 USC 1370. All my officer time was completed in the Navy as per 10 USC § 3926 (a) (2).



10 USC 1370. Commissioned officers: general rule; exceptions

• (a) RULE FOR RETIREMENT IN HIGHEST GRADE

HELD SATISFACTORILY.—(1) Unless entitled to a

• higher retired grade under some other provision

• of law, a commissioned officer (other than a

• commissioned warrant officer) of the Army,

Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps who retires

under any provision of lawother than chapter 61

• or chapter 1223 of this title shall, except as provided

• in paragraph (2), be retired in the highest

• grade in which he served on active duty satisfactorily,

• as determined by the Secretary of the

• military department concerned, for not less than six months.

10 USC 1370 provides the legal authority for the assignment of retired grades to commissioned officers. It states, in pertinent part, that commissioned officers of the Army, in the pay grades 0-1 through 0-3, may be retired in the highest grade held and in which they satisfactorily served on active duty for not less than six months.

Also, DOD Pay manual: VOLUME 7B, CHAPTER 1“INITIAL ENTITLEMENTS – RETIREMENTS”

010502. Special Provisions

B. Regular and Reserve commissioned officers of the Army and Air Force are entitled to the grade equal to the highest temporary grade in which they served on active duty satisfactorily for not less than 6 months. See exception in subparagraph 010501.B.

C. Where an existing statute authorizes computation of pay on the basis of a grade in which the member served satisfactorily that is higher than the pay of the grade otherwise entitled; computation is based on the higher grade:

1. Without regard to whether that grade was temporary or permanent.

2. Even though the Military Service in which the member held that higher grade is not the Military Service in which retired.

10 USC § 101 - Definitions

• (d) Duty Status.— The following definitions relating to duty status apply in this title:

• (1) The term “active duty” means full-time duty in the active military service of the United States. Such term includes full-time training duty, annual training duty, and attendance, while in the active military service, at a school designated as a service school by law or by the Secretary of the military department concerned. Such term does not include full-time National Guard duty.

• (2) The term “active duty for a period of more than 30 days” means active duty under a call or order that does not specify a period of 30 days or less.

• (3) The term “active service” means service on active duty or full-time National Guard duty.

• (4) The term “active status” means the status of a member of a reserve component who is not in the inactive Army National Guard or inactive Air National Guard, on an inactive status list, or in the Retired Reserve.

• (5) The term “full-time National Guard duty” means training or other duty, other than inactive duty, performed by a member of the Army National Guard of the United States or the Air National Guard of the United States in the member’s status as a member of the National Guard of a State or territory, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the District of Columbia under section 316, 502, 503, 504, or 505of title 32for which the member is entitled to pay from the United States or for which the member has waived pay from the United States.

• (6) (A) The term “active Guard and Reserve duty” means active duty performed by a member of a reserve component of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, or full-time National Guard duty performed by a member of the National Guard pursuant to an order to full-time National Guard duty, for a period of 180 consecutive days or more for the purpose of organizing, administering, recruiting, instructing, or training the reserve components.

• (B) Such term does not include the following: (i) Duty performed as a member of the Reserve Forces Policy Board provided for under section 10301 of this title.

• (ii) Duty performed as a property and fiscal officer under section 708 of title 32.

• (iii) Duty performed for the purpose of interdiction and counter-drug activities for which funds have been provided under section 112 of title 32.

• (iv) Duty performed as a general or flag officer.

• (v) Service as a State director of the Selective Service System under section 10(b)(2) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 App. U.S.C. 460(b)(2)).

• (7) The term “inactive-duty training” means— (A) duty prescribed for Reserves by the Secretary concerned under section 206 of title 37 or any other provision of law; and

• (B) special additional duties authorized for Reserves by an authority designated by the Secretary concerned and performed by them on a voluntary basis in connection with the prescribed training or maintenance activities of the units to which they are assigned. Such term includes those duties when performed by Reserves in their status as members of the National Guard.

10 USC § 3964 - Higher grade after 30 years of service: warrant officers and enlisted members

• (a) Each retired member of the Army covered by subsection (b) who is retired with less than 30 years of active service is entitled, when his active service plus his service on the retired list totals 30 years, to be advanced on the retired list to the highest grade in which he served on active duty satisfactorily (or, in the case of a member of the National Guard, in which he served on full-time duty satisfactorily), as determined by the Secretary of the Army.

• (b) This section applies to

– (1) warrant officers of the Army;

– (2) enlisted members of the Regular Army; and

– (3) reserve enlisted members of the Army who, at the time of retirement, are serving on active duty (or, in the case of members of the National Guard, on full-time National Guard duty).

In my case, I feel 10 USC 3964 should not even apply. Specifically 10 USC 3964 b (3). At time of my retirement I was National Guard on Active Duty Title 10 NOT full-time National Guard Duty, which by definition is Title 32. 10 USC § 3964 should not apply to my situation since I was MN ARNG on Active Duty not onfull-Time National Guard Duty.

This is what AGDRB AR 15-80 states:

Chapter 3
Enlisted Personnel Grade Determinations
3–1. General
For enlisted cases, the AGDRB will make final determinations on behalf of the SA. It will determine the highest grade
in which a soldier has served satisfactorily for purposes of service/physical disability retirement, computation of retired
pay (10 USC 1406 or 1407), or separation for physical disability. While enlisted soldiers may be reduced in grade by
courts-martial, nonjudicial punishment proceedings (UCMJ, Art. 15), administrative separation proceedings, or inefficiency
boards, enlisted grade determinations cannot result in reduction of an enlisted soldier’s or retiree’s current grade.
Enlisted grade determinations will result in either a decision to retain the individual’s current grade or to advance to a
higher grade in which the individual satisfactorily served.
3–2. Thirty-year cases
a. Section 3964, title 10, United States Code (10 USC 3964) entitles certain retired members of the Army who are
retired with fewer than 30 years of active service, when such member’s active service plus service on the retired list
totals 30 years, to be advanced on the retired list to the highest grade served on active duty satisfactorily. The AGDRB
reviews each case individually to determine the highest grade served on active duty satisfactorily. This is not an
automatic advancement on the retired list. Section 3964 does not apply in retirement fornonregular service (reserve
retirement) cases when the retiree was not on active duty (or, in the case of members of the National Guard, when the
retiree was not on full-time National Guard duty) at the time of retirement. Section 3964 applies towarrant officers of
the Army; enlisted members of the Regular Army; and reserve enlisted members of the Army who, at the time of
retirement, were serving on active duty (or, in the case of members of the National Guard, were on full-time National
Guard duty
)
. These individuals are eligible for advancement on the retired list when their active service plus service on
the retired list totals 30 years. Individuals to be placed on the retired list with at least 30 years of active service will be
considered for immediate advancement on the retired list. “Highest grade served on active duty” is the grade to which a
soldier was actually promoted and paid pursuant to a lawful promotion. If the highest or intermediate grade was an
officer grade, the statutory TIG requirements for that grade must also be met to be deemed satisfactory (see para 2–4c).

“Highest grade served on active duty” does not include merely being in a promotable status or serving in, “acting,” or
holding a position or job title authorized at a higher grade, such as acting first sergeant or acting sergeant major.
b. Thirty-year cases are the only type of grade determinations that can be initiated by the individual concerned.Grade determinations for individuals retired for nonregular service under 10 USC 12731 (reserve component retirement
at age 60) are conducted automatically by AR–PERSCOM and other separation authorities when individuals are placed
on the retired list. Some 30-year cases, however, must be initiated by a written request from the retiree concerned.
When a reduction from the highest grade served was caused by misconduct, inefficiency, or for cause, the retiree must
initiate the grade determination process at the 30-year mark or later. In such cases, the retiree is presumed not to have
served satisfactorily in the higher grade; therefore, the retiree must request to initiate a grade determination review if
the retiree believes advancement is appropriate. In all other 30-year cases, the retirement authority will initiate the
grade determination process at the time of retirement. Retirement authorities will initiate these grade determinations
beginning with retirements occurring no later than 6 months after the effective date of this regulation. For retirements
occurring before that date, individuals must initiate the grade determination process. Regardless of when the 30-year
grade determination is accomplished, any resulting advancement on the retired list will not be effective until the 30-
year mark. Figure 3–1 provides a sample application to initiate a 30-year grade determination. An individual whose
grade was not determined at the time of retirement will mail an application to Army Review Boards Agency Support
Division; ATTN: SFMR–RBR–SL; St. Louis, MO 63132–5200. That division will attach the applicant’s military
records and forward the application to the AGDRB for consideration. In the case of an individual whose grade is being
determined at the time of retirement, retirement authorities will send the application to CG, PERSCOM, ATTN:
TAPC–PDT–R, 200 Stovall St., Alexandria, VA 22332–0444.




I feel that the Army representatives incorrectly applied the sections of Title 10 law to my retirement, also they missed my last 08 months at the Naval Academy and I am shorted eight months of service on the enlisted side of retirement.
I am able to meet you anytime to explain my position or go over the laws.





V/R,


Dave

My friend retired to TDRL on 30 JUN 2013. He is currently being paid only DFAS until VA finalizes his IDES ratings.

HE IS BEING PAID AS AN E-5 - NOT AS AN OFFICER.

HIS LAST THREE YEARS WAS ON AD - BOTH IN THE THEATER (INJURED) AS AN E-5 - THEN TRANSFERRED TO CB-WTU.

ALL THESE PAST THREE YEARS HE WAS PAID AS AN E-5 AND THAT IS WHAT DFAS IS PAYING HIM FOR HIS TDRL - E-5 PAY.

HE HAS NOT RECEIVED CREDIT FOR ANY TIME SPENT AS AN OFFICER AND HE IS BEING TDRL PAID AS AN E-5.

He has his OFFICIAL "Historical" records of OFFICER LESs, OFFICER promotion records, his 20-year AR Retirement letter (which he rec'd 6 months PRIOR to TDRL), and his AR Retirement Points Statement.

NOBODY at DFAS seems to know IF he gets credit for past OFFICER time (O-4) and paid as an O-4 for TDRL.

They keep saying that because his LAST 36 MONTHS AD was as an E-5, then that IS his correct TDRL pay.

I suggested he file a Congressional Inquiry about this issue.

This is where his case is stands at this time - preparing a Congressional.

DOES HE HAVE A CHANCE TO GET PAID AS AN OFFICER FOR ALL HIS PAST YEARS OF SERVICE AS AN OFFICER?

OR DOES HIS LAST THREE YEARS AS AN E-5 SIMPLY ERASE ALL THAT?

V/r,
nwlivewire
 

Travelerusa40

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
My friend retired to TDRL on 30 JUN 2013. He is currently being paid only DFAS until VA finalizes his IDES ratings.

HE IS BEING PAID AS AN E-5 - NOT AS AN OFFICER.

HIS LAST THREE YEARS WAS ON AD - BOTH IN THE THEATER (INJURED) AS AN E-5 - THEN TRANSFERRED TO CB-WTU.

ALL THESE PAST THREE YEARS HE WAS PAID AS AN E-5 AND THAT IS WHAT DFAS IS PAYING HIM FOR HIS TDRL - E-5 PAY.

HE HAS NOT RECEIVED CREDIT FOR ANY TIME SPENT AS AN OFFICER AND HE IS BEING TDRL PAID AS AN E-5.

He has his OFFICIAL "Historical" records of OFFICER LESs, OFFICER promotion records, his 20-year AR Retirement letter (which he rec'd 6 months PRIOR to TDRL), and his AR Retirement Points Statement.

NOBODY at DFAS seems to know IF he gets credit for past OFFICER time (O-4) and paid as an O-4 for TDRL.

They keep saying that because his LAST 36 MONTHS AD was as an E-5, then that IS his correct TDRL pay.

I suggested he file a Congressional Inquiry about this issue.

This is where his case is stands at this time - preparing a Congressional.

DOES HE HAVE A CHANCE TO GET PAID AS AN OFFICER FOR ALL HIS PAST YEARS OF SERVICE AS AN OFFICER?

OR DOES HIS LAST THREE YEARS AS AN E-5 SIMPLY ERASE ALL THAT?

V/r,
nwlivewire
I would recommend going back to his HRC Office that did his retirement package and talk to them for a quick fix. You many not have to deal with HRC - Fort Knox or Army Board of Military Corrections - since it as only been a view months. You need to provide:

All DD214, 20 year Retirement Letter, and RPAS or Retirement Point while officer was in the reserves. What looks to me like what happened is that this was not presented to HRC when they were putting the package together. After my 199 I was sent to HRC at Fort Belvoir who did my Retirement Package. They made some mistakes because they did not have all my paperwork. When I contacted them with the correct paper work they were very helpful and corrected everything and notified DFAS. DFAS will not move unless HRC corrects their part.

Also, the fact that he was a MAJ/04 and could not re-enlist or receive his commission back as an officer when he came back in should be a concern and also verified as to why he did not come back in as an officer. Most people don't go back in service as enlisted unless they could not keep their rank as an officer due to civilian and military educational requirements needed. You can verify this by looking at his last DD214 when he was discharged from the reserves. If it say's he was a MAJ/04 then make sure HRC get's this. You can also look at his Re-enlistment Code on his DD214 which will have a two or three letter code that you can ask a recruiter what it means.
 

Travelerusa40

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
My friend retired to TDRL on 30 JUN 2013. He is currently being paid only DFAS until VA finalizes his IDES ratings.

HE IS BEING PAID AS AN E-5 - NOT AS AN OFFICER.

HIS LAST THREE YEARS WAS ON AD - BOTH IN THE THEATER (INJURED) AS AN E-5 - THEN TRANSFERRED TO CB-WTU.

ALL THESE PAST THREE YEARS HE WAS PAID AS AN E-5 AND THAT IS WHAT DFAS IS PAYING HIM FOR HIS TDRL - E-5 PAY.

HE HAS NOT RECEIVED CREDIT FOR ANY TIME SPENT AS AN OFFICER AND HE IS BEING TDRL PAID AS AN E-5.

He has his OFFICIAL "Historical" records of OFFICER LESs, OFFICER promotion records, his 20-year AR Retirement letter (which he rec'd 6 months PRIOR to TDRL), and his AR Retirement Points Statement.

NOBODY at DFAS seems to know IF he gets credit for past OFFICER time (O-4) and paid as an O-4 for TDRL.

They keep saying that because his LAST 36 MONTHS AD was as an E-5, then that IS his correct TDRL pay.

I suggested he file a Congressional Inquiry about this issue.

This is where his case is stands at this time - preparing a Congressional.

DOES HE HAVE A CHANCE TO GET PAID AS AN OFFICER FOR ALL HIS PAST YEARS OF SERVICE AS AN OFFICER?

OR DOES HIS LAST THREE YEARS AS AN E-5 SIMPLY ERASE ALL THAT?

V/r,
nwlivewire
Since he was reserve and is being retired through Active Duty they two components do not talk and do not have the RPAS retirement points or past DD214 the Service Member received when he was a reservist, unless that Service Member provides them. This is needed for final pay calulations and also needed to be placed in his retirement package upon discharge or during his final outprocessing when HRC or the personnel office is doing his DD214. If he is getting paid as an E5 with 6 years it is because during his outprocessing this information was not provided or was left out.
 
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