PRIOR AR OFFICER, NOW ENLISTED, RANK/PAY, & RETIREMENT ?

Joe1953

Member
Registered Member
Hello All,

I'm not going through a Med board, but I came across this discussion and thought I would add a comment and a question or two.

The NDAA of 2011 authorized a reduction in the required years of commissioned service to eight years. However, I don't see any Mil Per or ALARACT that discusses the actual implementation, just the memo from the Secretary of the Army to the USD (P&R) and her response giving him permission. She subsequently extended the reduction to 2018. The guy above seems to have well over 10 years of AFS, so the NDAA of 2011 is irrelevant, I guess.

But I have to agree that if he has ten years, he has ten years and I don't know why the Army would have denied him his officer status in retirement. But then I also see the part where upon completion of 30 years total service in any branch in any component automatically reinstates the soldier's highest pay grade and rank ever held. I wonder if this also means a revised monthly paycheck to reflect the officer rank.

For myself, I am a reserve officer and will have 20 years of AFS soon, but want to remain in the military. So I am wondering if I can retire with active duty benefits if I apply for retirement from a reserve or IRR status. And since I see all the problems some of you above had, I wonder if I retire now with less than 10 years of commissioned service if my pension will revert to E6 pay and not O3E.
 

Dave_RETIRED

Member
Registered Member
Hello All,

I'm not going through a Med board, but I came across this discussion and thought I would add a comment and a question or two.

The NDAA of 2011 authorized a reduction in the required years of commissioned service to eight years. However, I don't see any Mil Per or ALARACT that discusses the actual implementation, just the memo from the Secretary of the Army to the USD (P&R) and her response giving him permission. She subsequently extended the reduction to 2018. The guy above seems to have well over 10 years of AFS, so the NDAA of 2011 is irrelevant, I guess.

But I have to agree that if he has ten years, he has ten years and I don't know why the Army would have denied him his officer status in retirement. But then I also see the part where upon completion of 30 years total service in any branch in any component automatically reinstates the soldier's highest pay grade and rank ever held. I wonder if this also means a revised monthly paycheck to reflect the officer rank.

For myself, I am a reserve officer and will have 20 years of AFS soon, but want to remain in the military. So I am wondering if I can retire with active duty benefits if I apply for retirement from a reserve or IRR status. And since I see all the problems some of you above had, I wonder if I retire now with less than 10 years of commissioned service if my pension will revert to E6 pay and not O3E.
 

Dave_RETIRED

Member
Registered Member
Joe1953,

I have resigned myself to hiring a lawyer to get my officer retirement. I still have to do all of the work for him and then he charges me for his time.
Go to http://arba.army.pentagon.mil/abcmr-overview.cfm, click links then select DOD READING ROOM link. From what I know from my research, you need ten years, and you probably will not get a waiver for eight years. If less than ten yrs comm, then E-6 retirement is in your future. Retire for 10 yrs then apply for officer retirement, ( 10 USC 3964 ). I'll help you out look at the attachments. I have more, start with these. AR 600-8 -24 ch 6; AR 635-200, ch 12.

Keep in touch.

Dave McDonald
 

Attachments

  • CSBREDUXFAQS-1.doc
    72 KB · Views: 4
  • DODI 120015p.pdf
    27 KB · Views: 6
  • r600_8_24_Officer_Transfer_and_DISCH_HIGHLIGHTED.pdf
    1.7 MB · Views: 4
  • r635_200_AD_Enilsted_Admin_Sep.pdf
    1.3 MB · Views: 1
  • IN THE CASE OF_AR20060001023_LESS.doc
    93.5 KB · Views: 2
  • IN THE CASE OF_AR2001058600_MORE THAN 10 years AFCS_She is similar to me.docx
    22.7 KB · Views: 1
  • In THE CASE OF_AR2002077765_MORE THAN 10 YEARS_RIF.docx
    22.3 KB · Views: 2
  • IN THE CASE OF_AR20080007246_MORE THAN_VERY SIMILAR TO ME.docx
    20 KB · Views: 3
  • IN THE CASE OF_AR20080017144_less than 10 years comm_SUPPORTS MY CLAIM.docx
    20.7 KB · Views: 4

Joe1953

Member
Registered Member
I emailed the POC at the bottom of the memo the HON McHugh signed and he replied saying the Army was still staffing the new policy. I pointed out to him that the other services have put the word out on the street. He also implied that at the moment, the only approving authority is Sec Army himself, but that is part of what they are still staffing.

Have you tried going to a different Retirement Service Office and see what they say? I get the feeling that for people like you and me, this is so confusing that what works for some, may not work for others depending on who is processing their retirement packet.

But, I've also accepted that I might just have to wait until I'm 56ish to collect as a reservist.
 

Dave_RETIRED

Member
Registered Member
I emailed the POC at the bottom of the memo the HON McHugh signed and he replied saying the Army was still staffing the new policy. I pointed out to him that the other services have put the word out on the street. He also implied that at the moment, the only approving authority is Sec Army himself, but that is part of what they are still staffing.

Have you tried going to a different Retirement Service Office and see what they say? I get the feeling that for people like you and me, this is so confusing that what works for some, may not work for others depending on who is processing their retirement packet.

But, I've also accepted that I might just have to wait until I'm 56ish to collect as a reservist.



I have been ping ponged between the MN ARNG, Ft Riley RSO, Ft McCoy RSO, MN ARNG RSO, HRC, Pentagon, G-1, 2 MN Congress people Senator Amy Kloubuchar, REP Tim Waltz all useless. It is easier to deny then to explain why the codified laws of the US do not apply. Sadly that is why I finally turned this over to a lawyer. I served my country for over 20 years and now I must fight for my retirement benefits.
 

Warrior644

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Lifetime Supporter
Registered Member
I have been ping ponged between the MN ARNG, Ft Riley RSO, Ft McCoy RSO, MN ARNG RSO, HRC, Pentagon, G-1, 2 MN Congress people Senator Amy Kloubuchar, REP Tim Waltz all useless. It is easier to deny then to explain why the codified laws of the US do not apply. Sadly that is why I finally turned this over to a lawyer. I served my country for over 20 years and now I must fight for my retirement benefits.

Welcome to the PEB Forum! :)

Wow! It's simply amazing that you have to fight for military retirement benefits! :(

To that extent, I applaud your continuing efforts; as such, never default acceptance to potential injustice...fight then continue to fight some more until the desired expectations are achieved! ;)

Thus, I quite often comment that "possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer."

Best Wishes!
 

heypizon

Member
Registered Member
Warrior644, I just found this thread and copied my PM here as there may be others with a similar circumstance.

I have been rated by VA 70% (a combination of spine and related extremity issues). DOD found all unfitting LOD and I was given a 199 for DOD 70%.
The question is more DFAS than anything. When figuring my estimated retirement pay, (I am a National Guardsman) they figured my total points to be worth 4yrs 7mos. (16 good years total drill points divided by 360 or some similar math) So far I am in agreement. Here lies the rub. I entered service (E-1 Infantry) October 1985, went through college ROTC and commissioned in 1989. Subsequent promotion to MP 1LT, then I went IRR. While in IRR, I was promoted to MP CPT. I took an Honorable discharge as CPT and left the military for about 7 years.
In 2007 I reenlisted as an E-4 (yup, a very old Specialist). I was promoted through E-5 and upon request of my command, became a Warrant Officer (WO-1). Now, as an LOD injured/unfit WO-1, my DA form 5892 (Item 1.) Lists my rank as WO-1. The notation says: highest rand satisfactorily held......so should that be O-3 as I presumed?
Then, if it is O-3, Would retirement pay be figured on today's pay scale or O-3 from 1999?
Thank you forum friends.
 

Jason Perry

Benevolent Leader
Site Founder
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Lifetime Supporter
Registered Member
Sounds like it should be O3 as that was highest rank held satisfactorily. Recall, though, that your pay will be based on your "High 3" so, if you were in IRR while promoted, you maybe were never paid as a CPT. It would depend on your years of service as a WO, and the relative pay scales between now and when you were a 1LT as to what would be highest.
 

heypizon

Member
Registered Member
Ahh. Yes, the "high 3". That is a valid point as I was IRR and was not paid as O-3. Wondered where "highest rank held" matters then.

Also, I am a WO-1. I was medically (LOD) unable to attend the training to be eligible for WO-2. Does that matter? I have over 2 years as WO-1.

Thanks!
Heypizon
 

Jason Perry

Benevolent Leader
Site Founder
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Lifetime Supporter
Registered Member
It would only matter, really, for such things as customs and courtesies, your title, and what it says on your ID card. For money/compensation purposes, if you were never paid as an O3, it really would not seem to matter. (But, having been paid as an O2, that pay would seem to matter- unless it was so long ago and your WO1 pay was higher anyway).

Not sure exactly what you mean or are asking as to your being a WO1- it "matters" if your pay was higher, based on years of service, making that higher than a O2 those years ago taking account of that back then the pay scale would have been lower and your years of service being less; it could be that your WO base pay is higher now than O2 pay back then (I am speculating, here, because I have neither checked out the pay tables nor do I know the relevant time periods...I don't know how close the pay amounts are for each grade, especially taking into account the years of service and what years we would be comparing).
 

nwlivewire

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
It would only matter, really, for such things as customs and courtesies, your title, and what it says on your ID card. For money/compensation purposes, if you were never paid as an O3, it really would not seem to matter. (But, having been paid as an O2, that pay would seem to matter- unless it was so long ago and your WO1 pay was higher anyway).

Not sure exactly what you mean or are asking as to your being a WO1- it "matters" if your pay was higher, based on years of service, making that higher than a O2 those years ago taking account of that back then the pay scale would have been lower and your years of service being less; it could be that your WO base pay is higher now than O2 pay back then (I am speculating, here, because I have neither checked out the pay tables nor do I know the relevant time periods...I don't know how close the pay amounts are for each grade, especially taking into account the years of service and what years we would be comparing).

Here's the DFAS historical pay tables.....

http://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/militarypaytables.html
nwlivewire
 

SquireF14

Member
Registered Member
My situation:

I was an O-3 in the Navy from 1987 to 1993. Was caught in the drawdown in mid 90's. Joined the Army in 2007 as an E-5. (my E-5 compared to your E-4, makes me think they didn't "credit" your O-3 then). Was medically discharged while an E-7. 50% Army/90% VA. My DD-214 lists me as E-7. Remarks section states Retired Grade CPT. They did not use historical pay tables to calculate my retirement pay. I am being paid as if my last 36 months were on active duty as an O-3.
 

Jason Perry

Benevolent Leader
Site Founder
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Lifetime Supporter
Registered Member
They did not use historical pay tables to calculate my retirement pay. I am being paid as if my last 36 months were on active duty as an O-3.
Remember it is "High-3" that is the basis of the calculation. If your average high 36 months of base pay was in the past, then they should have used the earlier in time figures. For most people, the most recent 36 months will be the higher, and thus the basis of the calculation.
 

heypizon

Member
Registered Member
My situation:

Gee Whiz Squire! I don't see how that happened in your case but happy for you. From what I've gleaned thus far; Mr. Perry's assessment sounds right. My O3 was around 96 and is pretty close (on historical pay scales) to my WO1 pay today. However, if they used your retired rank of O3 on today's scale, that's huge.

I wouldn't mind a similar decision! Though I'd be nervous that there would be a major recoupment looming....... If it were indeed a mistake to calculate it that way.
 
Last edited:

heypizon

Member
Registered Member
My situation:

Gee Whiz Squire! I don't see how that happened in your case but happy for you. From what I've gleaned thus far; Mr. Perry's assessment sounds right. My O3 was around 96 and is pretty close (on historical pay scales) to my WO1 pay today. However, if they used your retired rank of O3 on today's scale, that's huge.

I wouldn't mind a similar decision! Though I'd be nervous that there would be a major recoupment looming....... If it were indeed a mistake to calculate it that way.
 

Warrior644

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Lifetime Supporter
Registered Member
Warrior644, I just found this thread and copied my PM here as there may be others with a similar circumstance.

I have been rated by VA 70% (a combination of spine and related extremity issues). DOD found all unfitting LOD and I was given a 199 for DOD 70%.
The question is more DFAS than anything. When figuring my estimated retirement pay, (I am a National Guardsman) they figured my total points to be worth 4yrs 7mos. (16 good years total drill points divided by 360 or some similar math) So far I am in agreement. Here lies the rub. I entered service (E-1 Infantry) October 1985, went through college ROTC and commissioned in 1989. Subsequent promotion to MP 1LT, then I went IRR. While in IRR, I was promoted to MP CPT. I took an Honorable discharge as CPT and left the military for about 7 years.
In 2007 I reenlisted as an E-4 (yup, a very old Specialist). I was promoted through E-5 and upon request of my command, became a Warrant Officer (WO-1). Now, as an LOD injured/unfit WO-1, my DA form 5892 (Item 1.) Lists my rank as WO-1. The notation says: highest rand satisfactorily held......so should that be O-3 as I presumed?
Then, if it is O-3, Would retirement pay be figured on today's pay scale or O-3 from 1999?
Thank you forum friends.

No worries; good deal, enjoy and take care! :)

Thus, I quite often comment that "possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer."

Best Wishes!
 

nwlivewire

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
No worries; good deal, enjoy and take care! :)

Thus, I quite often comment that "possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer."

Best Wishes!


I asked my retired friend what ever happened to his Officer-then-Enlisted -then retired onto TDRL - then finally getting to PDRL.

He was initially retired out onto TDRL Enlisted pay computations.

The he said that got fixed and they recalculated his retirement pay to O-4.

He said he THINKS his O-4 retirement pay is based on current O-4 base pay figures and "high 3" computations, as they DID NOT use his O-4 "high 3" from years ago.

Remember, he got TDRLed as an Enlisted and it had been several years since he was paid as an O-4.

He just recently retired onto PDRL (was originally TDRL) and he rec'd a higher PDRL DoD rating than what the DoD initially gave him for TDRL.

So he believes he has now been maxed out at ratings of 80% DoD and 100% VA/IU.

In his case, 75% DoD is his max payment rate for PDRL and it is being calculated at current O-4 pay rates.

That's what he said to me anyway - so I'm taking his word for it.

Thought I'd pass this along.

nwlivewire
 
Top