PT & MEB status- Administrative and Personnel Action Permament Excemption for failure to take the FA

crome45

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You are correct and another factual based information for Airmen who are on a current profile and MEB status are excempt from the take the FA. Google and research the following Air Force Instruction, AFI36-2905, Chapter 9. Administrative and Personnel Actions Sections, 9.1.1.1 and 9.1.1.2. " 9.1.1.1 Prohibited Actions: "Commanders may not impose nonjudicial punishment (Article 15, UCMJ) soley for failure to achieve a Satisfactory fitness score." "9.1.1.2 Upon receipt of a Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) permament excemption, a member is not subject to adverse personnel action for inability to take the AF." It is in black and white. I hope that this information and documented resource is helpful. Make a copy of the AFI36-2905, Chapter 9 and sections that apply and carry it in your pocket at all time to educate your unit and other Airmen. I get the entire AF fitness program and buy into if fully. It is geared to assist those Airmen in obtaining a passing, become more fit and healthy. Not to punish someone for not being able to do performe or do the fitness because of a medically diagnosed condition for which they are being evaluated and treated. I would encourage Airmen to inform and educate other Airmen about this AFI and carry it in your pocket. I hope that this posting helps.

Crome45
Semper FI
 

TSgt Twitch

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Sadly, as good as it sounds, i believe you may be misreading it.

9.1.1.2.
Upon receipt

of a Medical Evaluation Board

permanent exemption, a member is
not subject to adverse personnel action for inability to take the FA.
Sadly, 99.9% of all Airmen CAN TAKE THE the FA, even if it is just a waist measurement, Further however this is stating once a PERMANENT exemption after completion of a medical board. I have a hemotoma that adds 1.5-2inches to my waist measurement (over my right hip trochanter) and no waist exemption, a co-worker has a tumor on his thyroid that is currently non-operable but the chemicals in it cause his weight to fluctuate up to 15 lbs either way a month. No waist exemption. When i had hernia repair surgery, no exemption. You get my point.
Also the first part, no initially a CC cannot give NJP for a single failure- but for multiples they can, starting with the second-especially if they do an LOR/UIF on the first.
 

klamsnacks

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PEB Forum Veteran
TSgt Twitch is right - the AFI's are NOT in the injured Airman's interests. As someone who also went through this - the Commanding officer can do whatever they want as it is also stated in i think the same AFI - CC's are the only one's that can exempt your test scores as well. Using Commanders discretion. My CC demoted me two times over the course of two years, while I was on profile for everything except Waist. He added influence on my medical doctors, by calling them repeatedly and discussing my profile/meb with them on 7 separate occasions. Additionally he was able to get them to state that my condition should not keep me from dieting to lose weight. Even after showing them my diet diary (or whatever it's called) and having my prescribing physician's affirmation that my meds most likely caused my weight gain. And having ALIF surgery. My doctor's recommended time off for convo leave was disregarded by my CC. He ordered me back to work, when I fought it, he got my Military doctor to do it. Albiet my doctors talked and the surgeon's suggestion of 4 hr days eventually won over the military doc, but this was 4 weeks after surgery, with an expected recoup time of 3 months post op - my surgeon had stated this well in advance of surgery - and the CC just didn't see it that way. This was due to his own medical procedure of some form of abdominal surgery (non invasive variety I later found out), he felt that since HE HIMSELF was on Convo leave but at work I should too (exact quote from my Supervisor at the time who came to my house to tell me I was required to be at work starting tomorrow*). SO you see, CC's can do whatever they want and have the power to make or break your situation.

-Scott
 

klamsnacks

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Sadly, as good as it sounds, i believe you may be misreading it.

9.1.1.2.
Upon receipt

of a Medical Evaluation Board

permanent exemption, a member is
not subject to adverse personnel action for inability to take the FA.
Sadly, 99.9% of all Airmen CAN TAKE THE the FA, even if it is just a waist measurement, Further however this is stating once a PERMANENT exemption after completion of a medical board. I have a hemotoma that adds 1.5-2inches to my waist measurement (over my right hip trochanter) and no waist exemption, a co-worker has a tumor on his thyroid that is currently non-operable but the chemicals in it cause his weight to fluctuate up to 15 lbs either way a month. No waist exemption. When i had hernia repair surgery, no exemption. You get my point.
Also the first part, no initially a CC cannot give NJP for a single failure- but for multiples they can, starting with the second-especially if they do an LOR/UIF on the first.
Additional thoughts on your take of this matter TSgt Twitch - your CC can indeed jump the levels of NJP if you've failed previously but never been formally given any punishments prior. When I failed my 1,2, and 3rd tests - I received NOTHING, except verbal counselling from my then supervisor who was not there to help. When the time came for the fourth failure, that's when all hell broke lose. They started going right to Admin Discharge on me before my medical stuff could even be processes. THey thought I was lying basically. The reasons they stated for being able to do this when I tried to fight the initial rank demotion was that I KNEW THE AFI's and I KNEW the punishments associated with failures since especially I was an NCO at the time. It wasn't their fault that my previous supervisors had failed to punish me accordingly and that now since I was in their scope, I would be punished each and every failure until I was no longer failing or out of the military. (I failed something like 10 pt tests in a row, cause they kept forcing me to take one every 45 days or whatever the cut off date was for a retest).

-Scott
PS. Their evidence for failures being the documented Fitness Scoring system, showing that it was there was their point of punishment.
 

AmyGallay

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PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
You are correct and another factual based information for Airmen who are on a current profile and MEB status are excempt from the take the FA. Google and research the following Air Force Instruction, AFI36-2905, Chapter 9. Administrative and Personnel Actions Sections, 9.1.1.1 and 9.1.1.2. " 9.1.1.1 Prohibited Actions: "Commanders may not impose nonjudicial punishment (Article 15, UCMJ) soley for failure to achieve a Satisfactory fitness score." "9.1.1.2 Upon receipt of a Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) permament excemption, a member is not subject to adverse personnel action for inability to take the AF." It is in black and white. I hope that this information and documented resource is helpful. Make a copy of the AFI36-2905, Chapter 9 and sections that apply and carry it in your pocket at all time to educate your unit and other Airmen. I get the entire AF fitness program and buy into if fully. It is geared to assist those Airmen in obtaining a passing, become more fit and healthy. Not to punish someone for not being able to do performe or do the fitness because of a medically diagnosed condition for which they are being evaluated and treated. I would encourage Airmen to inform and educate other Airmen about this AFI and carry it in your pocket. I hope that this posting helps.

Crome45
Semper FI
I think the part that is being misunderstood is PERMAENT EXEMPTION. .

This reg is directed towards those who have completely finished their MEB, have been returned to duty, and are on a permanent profile for the rest of their career. This AFI is talking about no retribution for those on a permanent profile for not taking a portion of the PT test they will FOREVER be exempted from in the future, as they have been cleared to return to duty from their Meb.

It is talking about this members failure (inability) to take the whole PT test. Not their failure, as in failing the test.

This reg is not directed towards those currently going through a Meb and on temperary profiles.

Hope this helps clarifies why we are not agreeing with you.
 

crome45

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PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I think the part that is being misunderstood is PERMAENT EXEMPTION. .

This reg is directed towards those who have completely finished their MEB, have been returned to duty, and are on a permanent profile for the rest of their career. This AFI is talking about no retribution for those on a permanent profile for not taking a portion of the PT test they will FOREVER be exempted from in the future, as they have been cleared to return to duty from their Meb.

It is talking about this members failure (inability) to take the whole PT test. Not their failure, as in failing the test.

This reg is not directed towards those currently going through a Meb and on temperary profiles.

Hope this helps clarifies why we are not agreeing with you.
I appreciate your comments towards this post. The reg is in black and white. You indicate that it is for those Airmen who have completed their MEB process and have returned to duty. Furthermore, those Airmen who are on permanent profile for the rest of their career. It is amazing how words are add to the reg from many Airmen. It is like a story, you tell one person and words are added and deleted. After checking with a legal rep from my state, this reg is for those individual Airmen who have been placed on a MEB status and going though an MEB for medical reasons. It is not for anyone who is on a permament career profile or those who have finished a MEB. Hint, the reg doesn't say that. Read it again. I hope this information helps.

Crome45
Semper Fi.
 

crome45

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PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
TSgt Twitch is right - the AFI's are NOT in the injured Airman's interests. As someone who also went through this - the Commanding officer can do whatever they want as it is also stated in i think the same AFI - CC's are the only one's that can exempt your test scores as well. Using Commanders discretion. My CC demoted me two times over the course of two years, while I was on profile for everything except Waist. He added influence on my medical doctors, by calling them repeatedly and discussing my profile/meb with them on 7 separate occasions. Additionally he was able to get them to state that my condition should not keep me from dieting to lose weight. Even after showing them my diet diary (or whatever it's called) and having my prescribing physician's affirmation that my meds most likely caused my weight gain. And having ALIF surgery. My doctor's recommended time off for convo leave was disregarded by my CC. He ordered me back to work, when I fought it, he got my Military doctor to do it. Albiet my doctors talked and the surgeon's suggestion of 4 hr days eventually won over the military doc, but this was 4 weeks after surgery, with an expected recoup time of 3 months post op - my surgeon had stated this well in advance of surgery - and the CC just didn't see it that way. This was due to his own medical procedure of some form of abdominal surgery (non invasive variety I later found out), he felt that since HE HIMSELF was on Convo leave but at work I should too (exact quote from my Supervisor at the time who came to my house to tell me I was required to be at work starting tomorrow*). SO you see, CC's can do whatever they want and have the power to make or break your situation.

-Scott
Scott,

Are you going through a MEB process now? Read posting comments below.
I appreciate your comments towards this post. The reg is in black and white. (Comments from another reply to someone else). You indicate that it is for those Airmen who have completed their MEB process and have returned to duty. Furthermore, those Airmen who are on permanent profile for the rest of their career. It is amazing how words are add to the reg from many Airmen. It is like a story, you tell one person and words are added and deleted. After checking with a legal rep from my state, this reg is for those individual Airmen who have been placed on a MEB status and going though an MEB for medical reasons. It is not for anyone who is on a permament career profile or those who have finished a MEB. Hint, the reg doesn't say that. Read it again. I hope this information helps.

Crome45
Semper Fi.
 

AmyGallay

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
You are correct and another factual based information for Airmen who are on a current profile and MEB status are excempt from the take the FA. Google and research the following Air Force Instruction, AFI36-2905, Chapter 9. Administrative and Personnel Actions Sections, 9.1.1.1 and 9.1.1.2. " 9.1.1.1 Prohibited Actions: "Commanders may not impose nonjudicial punishment (Article 15, UCMJ) soley for failure to achieve a Satisfactory fitness score." "9.1.1.2 Upon receipt of a Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) permament excemption, a member is not subject to adverse personnel action for inability to take the AF." It is in black and white. I hope that this information and documented resource is helpful. Make a copy of the AFI36-2905, Chapter 9 and sections that apply and carry it in your pocket at all time to educate your unit and other Airmen. I get the entire AF fitness program and buy into if fully. It is geared to assist those Airmen in obtaining a passing, become more fit and healthy. Not to punish someone for not being able to do performe or do the fitness because of a medically diagnosed condition for which they are being evaluated and treated. I would encourage Airmen to inform and educate other Airmen about this AFI and carry it in your pocket. I hope that this posting helps.

Crome45
Semper FI
It says it right there.
 

AmyGallay

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
You are correct and another factual based information for Airmen who are on a current profile and MEB status are excempt from the take the FA. Google and research the following Air Force Instruction, AFI36-2905, Chapter 9. Administrative and Personnel Actions Sections, 9.1.1.1 and 9.1.1.2. " 9.1.1.1 Prohibited Actions: "Commanders may not impose nonjudicial punishment (Article 15, UCMJ) soley for failure to achieve a Satisfactory fitness score." "9.1.1.2 Upon receipt of a Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) permament excemption, a member is not subject to adverse personnel action for inability to take the AF." It is in black and white. I hope that this information and documented resource is helpful. Make a copy of the AFI36-2905, Chapter 9 and sections that apply and carry it in your pocket at all time to educate your unit and other Airmen. I get the entire AF fitness program and buy into if fully. It is geared to assist those Airmen in obtaining a passing, become more fit and healthy. Not to punish someone for not being able to do performe or do the fitness because of a medically diagnosed condition for which they are being evaluated and treated. I would encourage Airmen to inform and educate other Airmen about this AFI and carry it in your pocket. I hope that this posting helps.

Crome45
Semper FI
It states it right there.

You cannot be on a permanent profile, without the MEB being completed first. This isn't about hearsay.

You are taking a small protion of a reg (that has to do with something else) and trying to apply it to something totally different. This reg does not fit for what you are stating. Have you ever seen it be used in the way you are telling everyone one on this forum?
 

crome45

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PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Ya...that means and defines when a person and the military medical treatment facility places and Airmen on the start of his or her MEB process. It does say it right there...:) Good Luck...
 

crome45

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PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
It states it right there.

You cannot be on a permanent profile, without the MEB being completed first. This isn't about hearsay.

You are taking a small protion of a reg and trying to apply it to something totally different. This reg does not fit for what you are stating. Have you ever seen it be used in the way you are telling everyone one this forum?
Yes, I have and I am on a MEB process and have been for over almost one year. I am applying it the way it is written; furthermore, I have been in contact with the office of personnel management (legal) and they indicate the same comments as I have posted word for word from the reg. The research is valid and you seem to be taking portions to find your idea and thoughts they way it should be understood. But anyway, I was posting it to help those who are on a MEB status.

Crome45
Semper Fi
 

crome45

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PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
It states it right there.

You cannot be on a permanent profile, without the MEB being completed first. This isn't about hearsay.

You are taking a small protion of a reg and trying to apply it to something totally different. This reg does not fit for what you are stating. Have you ever seen it be used in the way you are telling everyone one this forum?
I posted my last comments on the other thread. I have contacted legal and they have indicated the same as the regs states... You interpret it the way you want. I have asked, research and done my home work on this topic. You believe in what you want....and I have my thoughts as well on this topic. Yes, there are loop holes to every situation but I surely know what I am talking and researched it prior to posting it. Have a good day....
 

jozzz123

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Each branch plays by their own rules, it's never the same across branches. Army and Marine. No matter what the regs say, they will do what they want until someone stops them.
 

crome45

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Each branch plays by their own rules, it's never the same across branches. Army and Marine. No matter what the regs say, they will do what they want until someone stops them.
Jozzz123, I totally agree with your comments. I am going through an MEB for Atrial Fibullation on two separate time one in 2008 and 2012. I work in a critical AFSC and had no prior medical issues before. I have been on a medical profile and documented on a 422/469 and my medical group submitted me for a MEB. It has been almost one year from the start of my MEB process. I am looking forward to moving on to the civilian life and to indicate that I have earned a BA and MBA in Criminal Justice Administrationd and Criminology from an outstanding University and currently completing a civilian police officer academy and will graduate next month. So, the rank reduction isn't really affecting anything that I do. It is just the point of individuals who think that be demoting you illegally and doing things outside of the AF regs and punishing people for something they have no control over. I appreciate your comments...and I thank the U.S. MARINES for giving me the chance to reflect on what they taught me. I am a prior service U.S. MARINE in at a guard unit. Go figure..... Thank you again for your comments.

Crome45
Semer Fi.
 

jozzz123

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Registered Member
Hope the
Jozzz123, I totally agree with your comments. I am going through an MEB for Atrial Fibullation on two separate time one in 2008 and 2012. I work in a critical AFSC and had no prior medical issues before. I have been on a medical profile and documented on a 422/469 and my medical group submitted me for a MEB. It has been almost one year from the start of my MEB process. I am looking forward to moving on to the civilian life and to indicate that I have earned a BA and MBA in Criminal Justice Administrationd and Criminology from an outstanding University and currently completing a civilian police officer academy and will graduate next month. So, the rank reduction isn't really affecting anything that I do. It is just the point of individuals who think that be demoting you illegally and doing things outside of the AF regs and punishing people for something they have no control over. I appreciate your comments...and I thank the U.S. MARINES for giving me the chance to reflect on what they taught me. I am a prior service U.S. MARINE in at a guard unit. Go figure..... Thank you again for your comments.

Crome45
Semer Fi.
Hope the best for you, it sounds like you got some good life to look forward to.
 

crome45

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PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Hope the

Hope the best for you, it sounds like you got some good life to look forward to.
Update information for you...as of today, I heard back on the IG complaint (IG Office). They are working the issue and also it was submitted to EEOC for their investigation as well. This is regarding the rank demotion and the LOR for not following alert recall procedures....but keep in mind...our unit doesn't have any written established alert recall procedures. But I wanted to share this update information with you.

Crome45
Semper Fi
 

jozzz123

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Update information for you...as of today, I heard back on the IG complaint (IG Office). They are working the issue and also it was submitted to EEOC for their investigation as well. This is regarding the rank demotion and the LOR for not following alert recall procedures....but keep in mind...our unit doesn't have any written established alert recall procedures. But I wanted to share this update information with you.

Crome45
Semper Fi
Sounds like a move in the RIGHT direction finally. Good job.
 

crome45

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Sounds like a move in the RIGHT direction finally. Good job.
Yes, for sure....it only helps those Airmen who are going through the same or similiar issues. Thank you for your positive support on this topic.

Crome45
Semper Fi
 

crome45

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PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
TSgt Twitch is right - the AFI's are NOT in the injured Airman's interests. As someone who also went through this - the Commanding officer can do whatever they want as it is also stated in i think the same AFI - CC's are the only one's that can exempt your test scores as well. Using Commanders discretion. My CC demoted me two times over the course of two years, while I was on profile for everything except Waist. He added influence on my medical doctors, by calling them repeatedly and discussing my profile/meb with them on 7 separate occasions. Additionally he was able to get them to state that my condition should not keep me from dieting to lose weight. Even after showing them my diet diary (or whatever it's called) and having my prescribing physician's affirmation that my meds most likely caused my weight gain. And having ALIF surgery. My doctor's recommended time off for convo leave was disregarded by my CC. He ordered me back to work, when I fought it, he got my Military doctor to do it. Albiet my doctors talked and the surgeon's suggestion of 4 hr days eventually won over the military doc, but this was 4 weeks after surgery, with an expected recoup time of 3 months post op - my surgeon had stated this well in advance of surgery - and the CC just didn't see it that way. This was due to his own medical procedure of some form of abdominal surgery (non invasive variety I later found out), he felt that since HE HIMSELF was on Convo leave but at work I should too (exact quote from my Supervisor at the time who came to my house to tell me I was required to be at work starting tomorrow*). SO you see, CC's can do whatever they want and have the power to make or break your situation.

-Scott
Update: Update information for you...as of today, I heard back on the IG complaint (IG Office). They are working the issue and also it was submitted to EEOC for their investigation as well. This is regarding the rank demotion and the LOR for not following alert recall procedures....but keep in mind...our unit doesn't have any written established alert recall procedures. But I wanted to share this update information with you.

Crome45
Semper Fi
 
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