Retirement and disability pay offset, 16 years of service

B

blackrubi05

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Quick backstory. 16 years active duty, will be placed on the TDRL on 14 June 2021, 90% combined DOD and 100% VA. 70% of the DOD is confirmed to be as a direct result of combat, noted on my orders and cannot be reduced.

I was informed that my retirement and disability pay will be offset. Does anybody know of any way to fight for that not to be considering my career was involuntary cut short? If I’m not mistaken you have to have 20 years to be eligible for the CRDP. It’s pretty messed up for someone in the last stage of their career to basically loose their retirement pay due to this.

I am aware of the CRSC and plan to apply but from what I read the max payment for that would still be short of my retired pay. Has anyone reached out to any Congressmen? I’m married with 2 kids and will require at least 3 surgeries in the near future which will make it incredibly difficult to provide for my family. The thought of this has made my depression come back tenfold. Any info is greatly appreciated.
 
I have read hundreds of cases such as yours over the past ~15 years; I agree that CH 61 retirees should be eligible for CRDP.

You can write your Congressman and lobby for a change in law, but presently you are not entitled to receive full retired pay and VA compensation simultaneously.
In fact, if you were entitled to CRDP (or CRSC) the amount received would not exceed the dollar amount of the longevity portion of retired pay (plus your VA comp). I do not think that portion of the law will ever change.

There is a bill currently being considered that might help you to some degree; it is commonly called the Star Act.

See: Sen. 344 Amend title 10, United States Code, to provide for Concurrent Receipt for Disability Retirees--‘‘Major Richard Star Act’’
<---LINK

Ron
 
Ron,

If I would have known this going into the process I would have fought to stay in. Thank you for the info.
 
blackrubi05 said:
Ron,

If I would have known this going into the process I would have fought to stay in. Thank you for the info.
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Hello @blackrubi05 ,

I think many would say the same.

As you know, VA compensation is not the same as retired pay, but VA comp @$3000 plus in your case is more than my E9 retired pay after 30 years of COLA increases. I had 22 years and 9 months active duty when I retired. Full disclosure: I now receive all my retired pay as CRSC and I also receive my VA compensation (SMC-S).

I hope the Stat Act passes and you benefit from it. In the meantime recommend you apply for CRSC. See the link under my signature block for CRSC info.

1. Sixteen Active Duty Years x 2.5% = 40% longevity multiplier
Average high three base pay x 40% = longevity portion of retired pay
2. Approved application for CRSC percentage. That percentage is used when viewing the VA comp tables to find the amount of your approved CRSC.
3. You would receive the lesser of item one or item two from DFAS for CRSC.

Good luck,
Ron
 
blackrubi05 said:
Quick backstory. 16 years active duty, will be placed on the TDRL on 14 June 2021, 90% combined DOD and 100% VA. 70% of the DOD is confirmed to be as a direct result of combat, noted on my orders and cannot be reduced.

I was informed that my retirement and disability pay will be offset. Does anybody know of any way to fight for that not to be considering my career was involuntary cut short? If I’m not mistaken you have to have 20 years to be eligible for the CRDP. It’s pretty messed up for someone in the last stage of their career to basically loose their retirement pay due to this.

I am aware of the CRSC and plan to apply but from what I read the max payment for that would still be short of my retired pay. Has anyone reached out to any Congressmen? I’m married with 2 kids and will require at least 3 surgeries in the near future which will make it incredibly difficult to provide for my family. The thought of this has made my depression come back tenfold. Any info is greatly appreciated.
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I have CRDP , and over 20. They are still making me pay the VA WAIVER ! Yet I know many others DO NOT PAY THE WAIVER ! DFAS DOES WHAT THEY WANT !
 
raj1097 said:
I have CRDP , and over 20. They are still making me pay the VA WAIVER ! Yet I know many others DO NOT PAY THE WAIVER ! DFAS DOES WHAT THEY WANT !
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Actually, DFAS computes pay in accordance with current laws.

I assume you qualified for a regular retirement (aka 20 year AD retirement) and received a disability retirement (CH 61) which had a certain DoD disability multiplier for computing the pay. Not all the back ground info is shown on the RAS.

A CRDP case such as you might have would result in the following:
1. High three average base x DoD disability multiplier = retired pay
2. Retired pay is then reduced by the amount of your VA compensation (the retiree keeps any residual retired pay)
3. The reduction/waiver/offset is restored NOT to exceed the longevity portion of retired pay which involves:
Active duty years and months x 2.5% = longevity multiplier
High three x longevity multiplier= longevity portion of retired pay and your CRDP shown on page two of your RAS
Waived/offset/reduced Retired pay that is in excess of the longevity amount is not restored via CRDP.
A combination of residual retired pay and CRDP cannot exceed the longevity portion of retired pay.

Note: Active duty Equivalent is computed using total creditable points divided by 360. The active duty equivalent is shown on the retirement orders under "Disability Retirement"
about 3/4 down the page/order.

A CRDP case such as mine; I had a regular retirement....no disability:
I would receive all my retired pay and all my VA comp. Actually I have. I have received either CRDP or CRSC almost since the advent of those programs.
A CRDP case for a reservist/NG without a disability retirement would have CRDP in the amount of the computed longevity.

CRDP and CRSC computations are somewhat complex and there are various scenarios possible.

Ron
 
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RonG said:
Actually, DFAS computes pay in accordance with current laws.

I assume you qualified for a regular retirement (aka 20 year AD retirement) and received a disability retirement (CH 61) which had a certain DoD disability multiplier for computing the pay. Not all the back ground info is shown on the RAS.

A CRDP case such as you might have would result in the following:
1. High three average base x DoD disability multiplier = retired pay
2. Retired pay is then reduced by the amount of your VA compensation (the retiree keeps any residual retired pay)
3. The reduction/waiver/offset is restored NOT to exceed the longevity portion of retired pay which involves:
Active duty years and months x 2.5% = longevity multiplier
High three x longevity multiplier= longevity portion of retired pay and your CRDP shown on page two of your RAS
Waived/offset/reduced Retired pay that is in excess of the longevity amount is not restored via CRDP.
A combination of residual retired pay and CRDP cannot exceed the longevity portion of retired pay.

Note: Active duty Equivalent is computed using total creditable points divided by 360. The active duty equivalent is shown on the retirement orders under "Disability Retirement"
about 3/4 down the page/order.

A CRDP case such as mine; I had a regular retirement....no disability:
I would receive all my retired pay and all my VA comp. Actually I have. I have received either CRDP or CRSC almost since the advent of those programs.
A CRDP case for a reservist/NG without a disability retirement would have CRDP in the amount of the computed longevity.

CRDP and CRSC computations are somewhat complex and there are various scenarios possible.

Ron
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Ron , explain high three .
 
raj1097 said:
Ron , explain high three .
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High Three: It is the total of the highest 36 months of base pay, divided by 36.
In many cases, it is the most recent 36 months (average).

Ron
 
RonG said:
High Three: It is the total of the highest 36 months of base pay, divided by 36.
In many cases, it is the most recent 36 months (average).

Ron
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Ron, how is the retired pay computed for servicemembers who entered prior to September 1980 ?
 
raj1097 said:
Ron, how is the retired pay computed for servicemembers who entered prior to September 1980 ?
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Ahhh...good question; I rarely run into that type case.

It is the same as I experienced when I retired (regular retirement) in 1991. The final pay is used, not high three.

Ron

From the DoD:
Final PayDefined Benefit that equals 2.5% times the number of years of service times the member’s final basic pay on the day of retirementPrimary retirement plan for Reserve members with initial date of entry into service prior to September 8, 1980
 
RonG said:
Ahhh...good question; I rarely run into that type case.

It is the same as I experienced when I retired (regular retirement) in 1991. The final pay is used, not high three.

Ron

From the DoD:
Final PayDefined Benefit that equals 2.5% times the number of years of service times the member’s final basic pay on the day of retirementPrimary retirement plan for Reserve members with initial date of entry into service prior to September 8, 1980
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That's one of the issues I have been trying to correct . The other is getting AHRC to follow the law concerning 10 USC 1372 , concerning my retirement grade .
 
RonG said:
Hello @blackrubi05 ,

I think many would say the same.

As you know, VA compensation is not the same as retired pay, but VA comp @$3000 plus in your case is more than my E9 retired pay after 30 years of COLA increases. I had 22 years and 9 months active duty when I retired. Full disclosure: I now receive all my retired pay as CRSC and I also receive my VA compensation (SMC-S).

I hope the Stat Act passes and you benefit from it. In the meantime recommend you apply for CRSC. See the link under my signature block for CRSC info.

1. Sixteen Active Duty Years x 2.5% = 40% longevity multiplier
Average high three base pay x 40% = longevity portion of retired pay
2. Approved application for CRSC percentage. That percentage is used when viewing the VA comp tables to find the amount of your approved CRSC.
3. You would receive the lesser of item one or item two from DFAS for CRSC.

Good luck,
Ron
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Hello Ron,

I'm new to the forum and really enjoy reading your comments. I just medically retired with 100% permanent disability under PDRL and also eligible for CRDP. I have been acquiring a clear explanation from DFAS in regards to VA waiver but no success. I have read your threads above and it appears that the VA waiver is here to stay unless the law changes. Do I still pay a VA waiver even though I fall under PDRL? Any guidance is appreciated.

Thanks,
T
 
tyrellt said:
Hello Ron,

I'm new to the forum and really enjoy reading your comments. I just medically retired with 100% permanent disability under PDRL and also eligible for CRDP. I have been acquiring a clear explanation from DFAS in regards to VA waiver but no success. I have read your threads above and it appears that the VA waiver is here to stay unless the law changes. Do I still pay a VA waiver even though I fall under PDRL? Any guidance is appreciated.

Thanks,
T
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Hello @tyrellt ,

Ref: DFAS CRDP Page ---> LINK

1. This does NOT apply to your case. I have a regular retirement (20+ AD) and if I chose to receive CRDP rather than the CRSC I do receive, my DFAS RAS would not include any information about the VA offset except page two would show the amount of CRDP that is within the gross pay on page one. In a case such as mine, all my retired pay would be CRDP since my VA comp is more than my retired pay. CRDP is retired pay itself and is taxable. If not for CRDP, I would not receive all my retired pay plus my VA comp. There are cases where only a portion of the gross pay on page one is CRDP. That happens when the VA Comp was not equal or larger than the VA comp amoount. Again, this does not apply to you, but it gives some background.

2. Your case and assuming you do qualify for CRDP:
Your DoD disability pay will be the higher of
a. DoD disability percentage x average high three base pay
OR
b. Your AD or AD equivalent years x 2.5% (2% for blended retirement if chosen) x average high three base pay

3. Your retired pay at item 2a or 2b above will be reduced by the amount of VA compensation you receive. You get to keep any residual retired pay (i.e., left over from the reduction).

4. Since you qualify for CRDP, the waived/reduced retired pay (also called VA offset) will be restored (given back) in the amount of your longevity portion of retired pay. The longevity is determined by: b. Your AD or AD equivalent years x 2.5% (2% for blended retirement if chosen) x average high three base pay

5. The combination of residual retired pay, if any, and CRDP cannot exceed the longevity portion of retired pay as discussed at item 4.

6. Bottom line: If you qualify for CRDP, you will receive all your longevity retired pay and all your VA compensation. The retired pay waived that is in excess of the longevity portion of retired pay will not be restored by CRDP.

7. Added note: If your qualification for CRDP is based on a RC retirement, you would not be entitled to CRDP until you meet the age requirement for the RC retirement.

Ron
 
RonG said:
Hello @tyrellt ,

Ref: DFAS CRDP Page ---> LINK

1. This does NOT apply to your case. I have a regular retirement (20+ AD) and if I chose to receive CRDP rather than the CRSC I do receive, my DFAS RAS would not include any information about the VA offset except page two would show the amount of CRDP that is within the gross pay on page one. In a case such as mine, all my retired pay would be CRDP since my VA comp is more than my retired pay. CRDP is retired pay itself and is taxable. If not for CRDP, I would not receive all my retired pay plus my VA comp. There are cases where only a portion of the gross pay on page one is CRDP. That happens when the VA Comp was not equal or larger than the VA comp amoount. Again, this does not apply to you, but it gives some background.

2. Your case and assuming you do qualify for CRDP:
Your DoD disability pay will be the higher of
a. DoD disability percentage x average high three base pay
OR
b. Your AD or AD equivalent years x 2.5% (2% for blended retirement if chosen) x average high three base pay

3. Your retired pay at item 2a or 2b above will be reduced by the amount of VA compensation you receive. You get to keep any residual retired pay (i.e., left over from the reduction).

4. Since you qualify for CRDP, the waived/reduced retired pay (also called VA offset) will be restored (given back) in the amount of your longevity portion of retired pay. The longevity is determined by: b. Your AD or AD equivalent years x 2.5% (2% for blended retirement if chosen) x average high three base pay

5. The combination of residual retired pay, if any, and CRDP cannot exceed the longevity portion of retired pay as discussed at item 4.

6. Bottom line: If you qualify for CRDP, you will receive all your longevity retired pay and all your VA compensation. The retired pay waived that is in excess of the longevity portion of retired pay will not be restored by CRDP.

7. Added note: If your qualification for CRDP is based on a RC retirement, you would not be entitled to CRDP until you meet the age requirement for the RC retirement.

Ron
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Hello Ron,

Thank you for the explanation. It appears being medically retired has it's own advantages and disadvantages.

Why would a 100% permanent disability retired service member hit with a VA waiver?

Is everyone retiring from the military regardless if regular or disability gets hit with a VA waiver if have CRDP?

Does PDRL has any bearing to the VA waiver determination?

Like many others I could have stayed few more years to earn the longevity perhaps to 28 or 29 years if I would have known but was MEB due to service connected conditions. As you explained, my 75% threshold from 100% disability for pay calculation is out and longevity is used to calculate my final gross pay which is what exactly DFAS used. So, not really sure why we medically retired and yet your pay will be reduced. Have you heard of any law where the VA waiver will be restored?

Also, can the DFAS use my basic pay of 34 years to adjust my gross pay when I turn 60. I was in the AGR for the Army Reserve for 24 AD years and a total of 34 years. Not sure if this is an option. Any advise is appreciated.

Thanks,
T
 
tyrellt said:
Hello Ron,

Thank you for the explanation. It appears being medically retired has it's own advantages and disadvantages.

Why would a 100% permanent disability retired service member hit with a VA waiver? Current law.

Is everyone retiring from the military regardless if regular or disability gets hit with a VA waiver if have CRDP? I explained this by using my own case.
Click to expand...

tyrellt said:
Does PDRL has any bearing to the VA waiver determination? No. Not when disability retired pay is considered.

Like many others I could have stayed few more years to earn the longevity perhaps to 28 or 29 years if I would have known but was MEB due to service connected conditions. As you explained, my 75% threshold from 100% disability for pay calculation is out and longevity is used to calculate my final gross pay which is what exactly DFAS used. So, not really sure why we medically retired and yet your pay will be reduced. Have you heard of any law where the VA waiver will be restored? Only thru CRDP, for which I gave a reference/link.

Also, can the DFAS use my basic pay of 34 years to adjust my gross pay when I turn 60. I was in the AGR for the Army Reserve for 24 AD years and a total of 34 years. Not sure if this is an option. Any advise is appreciated. Computation of longevity retired pay uses active duty or active duty equivalent years.

Thanks,
T
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Answers are in bold above.

Additional Comments: You might want to read the history of Concurrent Receipt. See https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40589.pdf <---LINK

If you qualify for CRDP as the result of a reserve or NG retirement, you will not be eligible for CRDP until you reach the age requirement for the RC retirement. It is not automatic; one can apply about six months or so (I have been told) prior to meeting that requirement. The approval of the RC retirement will trigger CRDP paid by DFAS.

For what is worth: There are retirees who don't receive CRDP even though they qualify because the residual retired pay (after waiver) is more than the dollar amount of the longevity portion of retired pay. The combination of residual retired pay and CRDP cannot exceed the longevity amount.
Example: Officer rated at 100% DoD and 100% VA. The amounts are: 5000 retired pay and 3000 VA comp. The longevity portion of retired pay in this example is 1990'
1. 5000 minus 3000 = 2000 residual retired pay which exceeds the dollar amount of longevity portion of retired pay, 1990.
2. Result: The retiree receives the 2000 residual retired pay; zero CRDP; and 3000 VA compensation.

Ron
 
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RonG said:
Answers are in bold above.

Additional Comments: You might want to read the history of Concurrent Receipt. See https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40589.pdf <---LINK

If you qualify for CRDP as the result of a reserve or NG retirement, you will not be eligible for CRDP until you reach the age requirement for the RC retirement. It is not automatic; one can apply about six months or so (I have been told) prior to meeting that requirement. The approval of the RC retirement will trigger CRDP paid by DFAS.

For what is worth: There are retirees who don't receive CRDP even though they qualify because the residual retired pay (after waiver) is more than the dollar amount of the longevity portion of retired pay. The combination of residual retired pay and CRDP cannot exceed the longevity amount.
Example: Officer rated at 100% DoD and 100% VA. The amounts are: 5000 retired pay and 3000 VA comp. The longevity portion of retired pay in this example is 1990'
1. 5000 minus 3000 = 2000 residual retired pay which exceeds the dollar amount of longevity portion of retired pay, 1990.
2. Result: The retiree receives the 2000 residual retired pay; zero CRDP; and 3000 VA compensation.

Ron
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Much appreciated, thank you.

T
 
Just to add, if you took the REDUX at 15 years your retirement pay will be waived for the subtraction of retirement percentage points you incurred due to the REDUX. The longer you stayed after 20 years reduces that loss. You do get 3.5% retirement points per year after 20 active years compared to the 2.5% per year standard retirement to help recoup some of that loss you took for accepting the REDUX but you will have to stay in, after 20 years, to get this advantage. Just to point out if you take the REDUX option you will drop down to 40% at 20 year retirement instead of the normal 50%.
 
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smartrving1@ said:
Military retirees and injured veterans would see an 8.7% boost in their monthly pensions in 2023. This is the most significant change since 1981. The Social Security Administration announced the increase in VA cost of living in October of last year.
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The increase at 8.7% was effective 1 December 2022 and those eligible for the increase received it for 1-31 December 2022 on about 1 January 2023 (Friday, December 30th since the 1st is on a weekend or holiday).

Ron
 
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