Seeking resident Guru & Math-lete, Ron, for CRSC Wizardry

AF_Vet @ PEB appeal phase

New Member
Registered Member
Ron,

Hopefully flattery is currency in these parts

I have read through a number of your CRSC post and for the life of me I'm not able to see the "Matrix"as you do. I am admittedly dense when it come to number crunching this is why I pay smart men and women with aptitude to do my taxes.

On topic, CRSC escapes me, though I believe I have the basic data need for an educated guess on CRSC number:

GRADE: E-7 (with wife & 2 kids)
Time in Service: 21.7 (though may reach 22) Proposed:
VA pay: $3910.44 (100%)
DoD (TRDL) pay: $4566.60 (100% combat related)

Ron what would CRSC vs CRDP payments look like?

Additionally, my public math is equally terrible, am I incorrect in assuming that it would be $8477.04 monthly, tax free?

Thank you kindly for any input, for your service, and selfless level of participation on the Board
 

RonG

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Ron,

Hopefully flattery is currency in these parts

I have read through a number of your CRSC post and for the life of me I'm not able to see the "Matrix"as you do. I am admittedly dense when it come to number crunching this is why I pay smart men and women with aptitude to do my taxes.

On topic, CRSC escapes me, though I believe I have the basic data need for an educated guess on CRSC number:

GRADE: E-7 (with wife & 2 kids)
Time in Service: 21.7 (though may reach 22) Proposed:
VA pay: $3910.44 (100%)
DoD (TRDL) pay: $4566.60 (100% combat related)

Ron what would CRSC vs CRDP payments look like?

Additionally, my public math is equally terrible, am I incorrect in assuming that it would be $8477.04 monthly, tax free?

Thank you kindly for any input, for your service, and selfless level of participation on the Board
Hello,

Foreword.

CRDP can be more than CRSC; CRSC can never be more than CRDP (it can be equal however).

If your CRSC is @ 100% it will replace waived retired pay in the same amount as CRDP restores it (except if any SMCs are not combat related, it could be less)...in your case with its particulars The main benefit of CRSC is that it is nontaxable; however your info shows your retired pay is already nontaxable. CRSC is non-divisible with a former spouse.

Neither CRSC or CRDP replaces or restores waived retired pay in excess of the longevity amount. Additionally, any residual retired pay after the waiver reduces the amouot of CRSC payble and the amount of CRDP plus residual retired pay cannot exceed the the longevity amount as well.

Perhaps a discussion of CRDP and CRSC will work in this case.

Discussion.

CRDP

DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 64 [CRDP]
6404 MONTHLY PAYMENT AMOUNT
Subject to the provisions of paragraphs 640401 and 640402, the monthly amount of retired pay restored under CRDP will be the amount of the offset imposed by receipt of VA disability
640401. Special Rule for Disability Retirement Members retired for disability under 10 U.S.C., Chapter 61, §§ 1201 through 1222 remain subject to the offset required under 38 U.S.C. §§ 5304 and 5305 for any retired pay they receive that is in excess of the amount of retired pay to which they would be entitled under any other provision of law based on service in the Uniformed Services, had they not retired for disability. Since retired pay in excess of the amount calculated for years in service is still subject to offset under the CRDP program, a member with an amount of retired pay remaining after offset of VA disability compensation, that is greater than the amount calculated for years of service, is not eligible for any increase in payment of retired pay under the CRDP program.

[Explanation by RG]: Your retired pay is reduced by the amount of VA compensation received. The restored CRDP amount may not exceed the amount of retired pay that is longevity portion of retired pay.
-----------
CRSC

DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 63 [CRSC]
6308 CRSC AMOUNT
The monthly amount of CRSC is equal to the full monthly amount prescribed in paragraph 630801, reduced as prescribed in paragraph 630805 and limited in accordance with paragraph 630802.
630801. Gross Monthly Amount The monthly amount of disability compensation the member would be paid by the VA under the provisions of 38 U.S.C. if compensated solely for the disabilities determined to be attributable to an injury for which the member received the Purple Heart or determined to be otherwise combat-related. See section 6305.

630802. Adjusted Amount The CRSC payment may not exceed the current reduction in retired pay applicable to the retiree under 38 U.S.C. §§ 5304 and 5305. Thus, CRSC is not payable if there is no reduction because the member is not receiving any monthly disability compensation from VA, or because the member is not receiving retired pay (such as a reserve member before reaching retirement age at 60 or other reduced retirement age), or for other reasons (such as a member who waives military retired pay in order to credit military service for a civil service retirement). The amount of a member’s CRSC entitlement will be adjusted to be the lesser of the gross CRSC from paragraph 630801 or the reduction to the retired pay entitlement.

630805. CRSC Payment Reduction for 10 U.S.C., Chapter 61 Disability Retirees The adjusted monthly amount specified in paragraph 630802 will be reduced according to the provisions of subparagraph 630805.A or 630805.B, whichever is applicable.

B. Reductions for periods on or after January 1, 2013. 1. Members retired for disability under 10 U.S.C., Chapter 61 with 20 or more years of creditable service computed under section 10 U.S.C. § 1208 will have the maximum CRSC payment restricted to the amount, which when combined with any remaining retired pay after VA offset, will not exceed the applicable retired pay to which the member would otherwise have been entitled under any other provisions of law. A retiree who accepted the Career Status Bonus will have the reduced amount calculated based on retired pay that would otherwise have been computed under 10 U.S.C. § 1409(b)(2).
[Explanation by RG]: After the waiver of retired pay in the amount of VA compensation, your CRSC is limited to the CRSC approved amount OR the longevity portion of retirement whichever is the lesser.

-----------------
This is necessary only if you want a CRSC estimate after reading the above.


The following is needed:
1. Confirmation that you will have a disability retirement, but you also qualify for a regular (20 yr AD) retiremtent.
2. You show 21.7 TIS. Two questions: Is that active duty? And... is that 21 years and 7/10th as you show OR is it 21 years and 7 months (which is 21 and 7/12th)?
3. What is your DoD disability percentage for retirement? 100% (paid at 75%) ?
4. What is your average high three base pay for retirement? (High three = average of the total of the highest 36 months divided by 36). If you are already retired, the gross retired pay your DFAS RAS will suffice.
5. What is your expected CRSC approval rate?
6. Please provide the components of your VA comp (e.g., spouse and 8 children under 18)
7 . A redacted copy of your recent DFAS RAS would be helpful.
8. Added: On page 2 of your DFAS RAS what is the amount shown for CRDP? Plus, it appears you might have residual retired pay + CRDP (which is actually retired pay by another name). I would like to have that amount as well if you can differentiate it from the CRDP. I likely can do that with a redacted RAS.

Ron
 

RonG

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Addendum:

Re: "On topic, CRSC escapes me, though I believe I have the basic data need for an educated guess on CRSC number:

GRADE: E-7 (with wife & 2 kids)
Time in Service: 21.7 (though may reach 22)
Proposed:
VA pay: $3910.44 (100%)
DoD (TRDL) pay: $4566.60 (100% combat related)"
and
"Additionally, my public math is equally terrible, am I incorrect in assuming that it would be $8477.04 monthly, tax free?" Comment: Not necessarily...see below.

CRSC
:

1. Assumed AD 21 yrs 7 mo is 21.583 yrs x 2.5% = 53.96 longevity multiplier
2. High three average base pay x 0.5396 = amount of the longevity portion of retired pay
3. High three average base pay x DoD disability percentage (guess 75%..it is max) = DoD retirement amount gross
4. DoD amount @ item 3 is reduced by amount of VA compensation = zero OR residual retired pay
5. CRSC percentage approved by service = find associated amount in the VA compensation tables
6. The amount of residual retired pay (if any) plus CRSC (item 5)= CRSC + residual retired pay not to exceed the dollar amount of the disability portion of retired pay
Note: CRSC itself can never exceed the amount of VA offset as well.

-----

CRDP: The CRDP amount will be the amount waived (offset) not to exceed dollar amount of longevity portion of retired pay. If residual retired pay is a factor; CRDP + residual retired pay will not exceed the applicable retired pay to which the member would otherwise have been entitled under any other provisions of law.
In other words, not to exceed the dollar amount of the longevity portion of retired pay.

Ron
 

AF_Vet @ PEB appeal phase

New Member
Registered Member
Hello,

Foreword.

CRDP can be more than CRSC; CRSC can never be more than CRDP (it can be equal however).

If your CRSC is @ 100% it will replace waived retired pay in the same amount as CRDP restores it (except if any SMCs are not combat related, it could be less)...in your case with its particulars The main benefit of CRSC is that it is nontaxable; however your info shows your retired pay is already nontaxable. CRSC is non-divisible with a former spouse.

Neither CRSC or CRDP replaces or restores waived retired pay in excess of the longevity amount. Additionally, any residual retired pay after the waiver reduces the amouot of CRSC payble and the amount of CRDP plus residual retired pay cannot exceed the the longevity amount as well.

Perhaps a discussion of CRDP and CRSC will work in this case.

Discussion.

CRDP

DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 64 [CRDP]
6404 MONTHLY PAYMENT AMOUNT
Subject to the provisions of paragraphs 640401 and 640402, the monthly amount of retired pay restored under CRDP will be the amount of the offset imposed by receipt of VA disability
640401. Special Rule for Disability Retirement Members retired for disability under 10 U.S.C., Chapter 61, §§ 1201 through 1222 remain subject to the offset required under 38 U.S.C. §§ 5304 and 5305 for any retired pay they receive that is in excess of the amount of retired pay to which they would be entitled under any other provision of law based on service in the Uniformed Services, had they not retired for disability. Since retired pay in excess of the amount calculated for years in service is still subject to offset under the CRDP program, a member with an amount of retired pay remaining after offset of VA disability compensation, that is greater than the amount calculated for years of service, is not eligible for any increase in payment of retired pay under the CRDP program.

[Explanation by RG]: Your retired pay is reduced by the amount of VA compensation received. The restored CRDP amount may not exceed the amount of retired pay that is longevity portion of retired pay.
-----------
CRSC

DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 63 [CRSC]
6308 CRSC AMOUNT
The monthly amount of CRSC is equal to the full monthly amount prescribed in paragraph 630801, reduced as prescribed in paragraph 630805 and limited in accordance with paragraph 630802.
630801. Gross Monthly Amount The monthly amount of disability compensation the member would be paid by the VA under the provisions of 38 U.S.C. if compensated solely for the disabilities determined to be attributable to an injury for which the member received the Purple Heart or determined to be otherwise combat-related. See section 6305.

630802. Adjusted Amount The CRSC payment may not exceed the current reduction in retired pay applicable to the retiree under 38 U.S.C. §§ 5304 and 5305. Thus, CRSC is not payable if there is no reduction because the member is not receiving any monthly disability compensation from VA, or because the member is not receiving retired pay (such as a reserve member before reaching retirement age at 60 or other reduced retirement age), or for other reasons (such as a member who waives military retired pay in order to credit military service for a civil service retirement). The amount of a member’s CRSC entitlement will be adjusted to be the lesser of the gross CRSC from paragraph 630801 or the reduction to the retired pay entitlement.

630805. CRSC Payment Reduction for 10 U.S.C., Chapter 61 Disability Retirees The adjusted monthly amount specified in paragraph 630802 will be reduced according to the provisions of subparagraph 630805.A or 630805.B, whichever is applicable.

B. Reductions for periods on or after January 1, 2013. 1. Members retired for disability under 10 U.S.C., Chapter 61 with 20 or more years of creditable service computed under section 10 U.S.C. § 1208 will have the maximum CRSC payment restricted to the amount, which when combined with any remaining retired pay after VA offset, will not exceed the applicable retired pay to which the member would otherwise have been entitled under any other provisions of law. A retiree who accepted the Career Status Bonus will have the reduced amount calculated based on retired pay that would otherwise have been computed under 10 U.S.C. § 1409(b)(2).
[Explanation by RG]: After the waiver of retired pay in the amount of VA compensation, your CRSC is limited to the CRSC approved amount OR the longevity portion of retirement whichever is the lesser.

-----------------
This is necessary only if you want a CRSC estimate after reading the above.


The following is needed:
1. Confirmation that you will have a disability retirement, but you also qualify for a regular (20 yr AD) retiremtent.
2. You show 21.7 TIS. Two questions: Is that active duty? And... is that 21 years and 7/10th as you show OR is it 21 years and 7 months (which is 21 and 7/12th)?
3. What is your DoD disability percentage for retirement? 100% (paid at 75%) ?
4. What is your average high three base pay for retirement? (High three = average of the total of the highest 36 months divided by 36). If you are already retired, the gross retired pay your DFAS RAS will suffice.
5. What is your expected CRSC approval rate?
6. Please provide the components of your VA comp (e.g., spouse and 8 children under 18)
7 . A redacted copy of your recent DFAS RAS would be helpful.
8. Added: On page 2 of your DFAS RAS what is the amount shown for CRDP? Plus, it appears you might have residual retired pay + CRDP (which is actually retired pay by another name). I would like to have that amount as well if you can differentiate it from the CRDP. I likely can do that with a redacted RAS.

Ron
Ron,

Brilliant! You...not me, that is
Hahaha. ; )
In matters of math/finances/tax, I am the proverbial reason for "Face Toward Enemy" on a claymore....best if they are dummy-proofed. I am re-reading your response and working on my own comprehension of the wealth of data shared. Meanwhile, I respectfully respond to your posed questions below to best help you help me.

Thank you for the level of effort and detail that you took in your response. I am grateful for forums such as this and those who selflessly give back to their fellow vets by sharing so much wisdom and insight.

Answers:

1) I will have a disability retirement, but also qualify for 20yr AD retirement.

2) Active Duty, currently 21 6/12 TIS. Expect 21 11/12 minimum before retirement date, factoring finish MEB, 30 days to out process and 90 days Terminal Leave.

3) My IPEB AF Form 356 states my combined compensable DoD percentage is 100%, and TDRL as recommended disposition. There is no mention if it is paid at 75%. I am honestly ignorant on this particular topic, how can I find out the answer to this?

4) High-3 average will be $4663.66

5) Expected CRSC approval rate 100%

6) VA components: Spouse, and two children under age 18

7) No DFAS RAS yet

8) No DFAS RAS yet
 

RonG

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
[excerpt]
Ron,
I respectfully respond to your posed questions below to best help you help me.

Answers: My comments are in bold. Ron

1) I will have a disability retirement, but also qualify for 20yr AD retirement. Excellent, thanks.
2) Active Duty, currently 21 6/12 TIS. Expect 21 11/12 minimum before retirement date, factoring finish MEB, 30 days to out process and 90 days Terminal Leave. OK
3) My IPEB AF Form 356 states my combined compensable DoD percentage is 100%, and TDRL as recommended disposition. There is no mention if it is paid at 75%. I am honestly ignorant on this particular topic, how can I find out the answer to this? The maximum level is 75% even if rated 100% by DoD per law. Good answer by you. I infer you have not retired yet...so there is no DFAS RAS.
4) High-3 average will be $4663.66 OK..thanks
5) Expected CRSC approval rate 100% OK
6) VA components: Spouse, and two children under age 18 OK
7) No DFAS RAS yet
8) No DFAS RAS yet
Addition to replies in bold above.

You are fortunate in that you qualify for both CRDP and CRSC (but not simultaneously). You have a choice.

A. High 3, 4663.66 x 0.75 = 3497.75 retired pay; this will be reduced to zero due to 3910.44 = residual retired pay
B. 21 yrs 11 month AD projected = 21.916 years AD
C. 21.916 x 0.025 = 54.79% longevity multiplier
D. 4663.66 x 0.5479 = 2555.22 longevity portion of retirement
E. 100% CRSC would be the full waiver amount which is 3497.75 Check of your VA amount you provided: $3,352.41 + 84.69 =3437.10 which changes this computation

Reset with 3437.10 VA comp:


A. High 3, 4663.66 x 0.75 = 3497.75 retired pay; this will be reduced by 3437.10 VA comp amount= 60.65 residual retired pay
B. 21 yrs 11 month AD projected = 21.916 years AD
C. 21.916 x 0.025 = 54.79% longevity multiplier
D. 4663.66 x 0.5479 = 2555.22 longevity portion of retirement
E. 100% CRSC would be the total amount offset (3437.10) but your CRSC cannot exceed the longevity amount 2555.22
F. Your CRSC will be be 2555.22 minus 60.65 = 2494.57 CRSC plus 60.65 residual retired pay TOTAL from DFAS: 2555.22
G. You will also receive 3437.10 in VA comp from the VA.


Your CRDP follows the same concepts that involve limits and residual retired pay. You have a perfect situation based on the info you provided. However, your CRSC is also affected by the CRSC approved by your service and IF it is approved at a diff rate,,,that could change the amount payable.

Ron
 
data-matched-content-ui-type="image_stacked" data-matched-content-rows-num="3" data-matched-content-columns-num="1" data-ad-format="autorelaxed">
Top