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Timeline

Garibay

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
DoD does the ratings if you go through LDES but VA does them if you go through IDES.

"LDES referral, a process by which the DoD alone determines whether referred RSMs are fit for continued military service and determines appropriate disability rating for those determined unfit who are separate or retired."


"The IDES includes both the DoD and VA medical evaluations. DoD evaluates the medical and physical condition of wounded warriors to determine fitness for military duty. The VA evaluates and rates the extent of disabilities, if wounded warriors are found unfit, and determines the level of compensation they are entitled to receive."

LDES you still have to go to the VA you just do it once you're out like everybody else. IDES you get it out of the way while you're in.
 

JoeUSMC

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
The QTC appointments that you go to are for the VA. The MEB conditions listed are the only thing the PEB looks to see if unfit for duty. I.e. my VA rating incudes shoulder, hip, hearing, right knee, ect. but my PEB only has one condition that they can determine my DoD rating from. VA ratings are what youre getting for the rest of your life just like everybody else who gets out and claims things with the VA. DoD just determines if you're going to get severance (10% or 20%) or retired (>30%).

Perhaps I could have worded things better. You are correct that the DoD rating determines severance or retirement. The QTC appointments are for your VA claim. The conditions that are going to the PEB should be a part of your VA claim. The VA will rate ALL conditions including the conditions the PEB found unfitting. The rating(s) of your condition(s) the PEB found unfitting will be use to determine your DoD percentage.
 

JoeUSMC

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
LDES you still have to go to the VA you just do it once you're out like everybody else. IDES you get it out of the way while you're in.

The point I am trying to make is that the PEB assigns a disability rating for unfitting conditions when you do LDES, not when you do IDES.

under LDES the PEB will evaluate your unfitting conditions using the VASRD and then assign a rating. Under IDES the VA, also using the VASRD, will evaluate all conditions and assign ratings.

This is because your VA claim is part of the IDES process and gives "the ability for the Service member to file a claim with the VA for service-connected injuries above and beyond the initial referred conditions that drove the referral into the DES process."

Since the VA is rating your referred conditions the PEB will use the VA ratings of your unfitting conditions when assigning a DoD disability rating.


From DoDM-1332.18-Volume-2 - Disability Evaluation System (DES) Manual: Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES): "c. For all unfit findings from the IPEB, the PEB administrator forwards to the D-RAS within 3 days via secure electronic measures or overnight mail:"

&

"1. GENERAL. The IPEB and FPEB determine a Service member's fitness in accordance with Appendix 2 to Enclosure 3 of Reference (b), but do not assign disability ratings to conditions."

from <IDES-Toolkit>

PEB Phase
Informal Physical Evaluation Board

The PEB Informal Physical Evaluation Board (IPEB) reviews all the evidence contained in the IDES case file, to include the Service Member's entire medical record to make a fitness determination and record their finding on the following:

  • Determine if the medical condition(s) was incurred in the line of duty
  • Determine if Service Member is Fit or Unfit for continued service
  • Recommend return to duty if found Fit; or if found Unfit
  • Identify the specific military unfitting medical condition(s)
  • Recommend separation from active duty with final disposition based on the degree of disability (percentage awarded by VA) for the military unfitting medical conditions
  • Determine if the military unfitting conditions were incurred as the result of a combat related event, and/or in a combat zone
  • Forward the case to the VA Disability Rating Activity Site (D-RAS) to determine degree of disability for each condition claimed
Veterans Administration Disability Rating Activity Site
The VA Disability Rating Activity Site (D-RAS) thoroughly evaluates the Service Member's referred and claimed conditions to produce a rating letter that explains the disability rating applied. Each condition is rated from zero to 100% and results are submitted to IPEB. The IPEB and D-RAS findings are merged and submitted to the PEBLO for delivery to the WII Service Member.

"LDES: The LDES process is the same as IDES with the exception of the VA claim process, associated Compensation and Pension exams, and VA disability ratings step. In the LDES the MEB and PEB is executed the same but without additional VA involvement. In this process the PEB provides the disability ratings for the unfitting conditions. If Service members wish to file a claim with the VA, it is done outside of the LDES process."

from DoDM-1332.18-Volume-1 - Disability Evaluation System (DES) Manual: General Information and Legacy Disability Evaluation System (LDES) Time Standards: "(1) The PEB will use the VASRD to establish the Service member's proposed disability rating under the LDES process."

(This is a link to the SECNAV PEB information page, not sure why the hyperlink is coming up as "request rejected")
 
Last edited:

Provis

Super Moderator
Staff Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
The point I am trying to make is that the PEB assigns a disability rating for unfitting conditions when you do LDES, not when you do IDES.

under LDES the PEB will evaluate your unfitting conditions using the VASRD and then assign a rating. Under IDES the VA, also using the VASRD, will evaluate all conditions and assign ratings.

This is because your VA claim is part of the IDES process and gives "the ability for the Service member to file a claim with the VA for service-connected injuries above and beyond the initial referred conditions that drove the referral into the DES process."

Since the VA is rating your referred conditions the PEB will use the VA ratings of your unfitting conditions when assigning a DoD disability rating.


From DoDM-1332.18-Volume-2 - Disability Evaluation System (DES) Manual: Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES): "c. For all unfit findings from the IPEB, the PEB administrator forwards to the D-RAS within 3 days via secure electronic measures or overnight mail:"

&

"1. GENERAL. The IPEB and FPEB determine a Service member's fitness in accordance with Appendix 2 to Enclosure 3 of Reference (b), but do not assign disability ratings to conditions."

from <IDES-Toolkit>

PEB Phase
Informal Physical Evaluation Board

The PEB Informal Physical Evaluation Board (IPEB) reviews all the evidence contained in the IDES case file, to include the Service Member's entire medical record to make a fitness determination and record their finding on the following:

  • Determine if the medical condition(s) was incurred in the line of duty
  • Determine if Service Member is Fit or Unfit for continued service
  • Recommend return to duty if found Fit; or if found Unfit
  • Identify the specific military unfitting medical condition(s)
  • Recommend separation from active duty with final disposition based on the degree of disability (percentage awarded by VA) for the military unfitting medical conditions
  • Determine if the military unfitting conditions were incurred as the result of a combat related event, and/or in a combat zone
  • Forward the case to the VA Disability Rating Activity Site (D-RAS) to determine degree of disability for each condition claimed
Veterans Administration Disability Rating Activity Site
The VA Disability Rating Activity Site (D-RAS) thoroughly evaluates the Service Member's referred and claimed conditions to produce a rating letter that explains the disability rating applied. Each condition is rated from zero to 100% and results are submitted to IPEB. The IPEB and D-RAS findings are merged and submitted to the PEBLO for delivery to the WII Service Member.

"LDES: The LDES process is the same as IDES with the exception of the VA claim process, associated Compensation and Pension exams, and VA disability ratings step. In the LDES the MEB and PEB is executed the same but without additional VA involvement. In this process the PEB provides the disability ratings for the unfitting conditions. If Service members wish to file a claim with the VA, it is done outside of the LDES process."

from DoDM-1332.18-Volume-1 - Disability Evaluation System (DES) Manual: General Information and Legacy Disability Evaluation System (LDES) Time Standards: "(1) The PEB will use the VASRD to establish the Service member's proposed disability rating under the LDES process."

(This is a link to the SECNAV PEB information page, not sure why the hyperlink is coming up as "request rejected")
I think the easiest way to sum up IDES is that the VA rates everything. The PEB determines what conditions make you unfit. If the PEB determines a condition is unfit the VA rating for that condition is used to determine the DOD % which is a big difference from LDES as you can be rated different percentages by the DOD and the VA for the same condition. That's one of the reasons IDES is preferred. 20 years ago I get medically separated and the DOD results were the exact opposite of the VA results. There are a lot more protections in IDES and of course the bonus that all your VA claims are done at the same time AND you are getting paid to get them done:)
 

Garibay

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
The point I am trying to make is that the PEB assigns a disability rating for unfitting conditions when you do LDES, not when you do IDES.

under LDES the PEB will evaluate your unfitting conditions using the VASRD and then assign a rating. Under IDES the VA, also using the VASRD, will evaluate all conditions and assign ratings.

This is because your VA claim is part of the IDES process and gives "the ability for the Service member to file a claim with the VA for service-connected injuries above and beyond the initial referred conditions that drove the referral into the DES process."

Since the VA is rating your referred conditions the PEB will use the VA ratings of your unfitting conditions when assigning a DoD disability rating.


From DoDM-1332.18-Volume-2 - Disability Evaluation System (DES) Manual: Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES): "c. For all unfit findings from the IPEB, the PEB administrator forwards to the D-RAS within 3 days via secure electronic measures or overnight mail:"

&

"1. GENERAL. The IPEB and FPEB determine a Service member's fitness in accordance with Appendix 2 to Enclosure 3 of Reference (b), but do not assign disability ratings to conditions."

from <IDES-Toolkit>

PEB Phase
Informal Physical Evaluation Board

The PEB Informal Physical Evaluation Board (IPEB) reviews all the evidence contained in the IDES case file, to include the Service Member's entire medical record to make a fitness determination and record their finding on the following:

  • Determine if the medical condition(s) was incurred in the line of duty
  • Determine if Service Member is Fit or Unfit for continued service
  • Recommend return to duty if found Fit; or if found Unfit
  • Identify the specific military unfitting medical condition(s)
  • Recommend separation from active duty with final disposition based on the degree of disability (percentage awarded by VA) for the military unfitting medical conditions
  • Determine if the military unfitting conditions were incurred as the result of a combat related event, and/or in a combat zone
  • Forward the case to the VA Disability Rating Activity Site (D-RAS) to determine degree of disability for each condition claimed
Veterans Administration Disability Rating Activity Site
The VA Disability Rating Activity Site (D-RAS) thoroughly evaluates the Service Member's referred and claimed conditions to produce a rating letter that explains the disability rating applied. Each condition is rated from zero to 100% and results are submitted to IPEB. The IPEB and D-RAS findings are merged and submitted to the PEBLO for delivery to the WII Service Member.

"LDES: The LDES process is the same as IDES with the exception of the VA claim process, associated Compensation and Pension exams, and VA disability ratings step. In the LDES the MEB and PEB is executed the same but without additional VA involvement. In this process the PEB provides the disability ratings for the unfitting conditions. If Service members wish to file a claim with the VA, it is done outside of the LDES process."

from DoDM-1332.18-Volume-1 - Disability Evaluation System (DES) Manual: General Information and Legacy Disability Evaluation System (LDES) Time Standards: "(1) The PEB will use the VASRD to establish the Service member's proposed disability rating under the LDES process."

(This is a link to the SECNAV PEB information page, not sure why the hyperlink is coming up as "request rejected")
Okay I am wrong then. I was 80% there though.

I actually didn't know the PEB used the Rating from the VA for conditions they deemed SNM unfit for so thank you for that info.

I thought you were saying that the overall rating form the VA would be what the PEB gave you which now I see isn't what you were trying to say.
 

brokenmonkey

Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
My PEBLO isn't always the most responsive but he doesn't seem like the type of person to make up a story because I keep asking for updates. I hope he is wrong about the PEB not having a medical officer but I've been CC'd on some of his emails to the PEB and I've seen their responses so I know he is legit talking to the PEB. I doubt he is taking me for a ride.
Just received an email from my lawyer and he says that your PEBLO isn’t really wrong. He claims that they might have one or two medical officers available right now. They have some that have already arrived or are arriving but they need to be trained before they can adjudicate cases. He said to expect a couple of weeks for a response to my Congressman’s inquiry and a result from the PEB could take 1 day to 6 more weeks. Who the F knows. All of that, after 16 weeks so far. I need to reach out to a counselor.
 

JoeUSMC

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Continuing to push all options in an attempt to have some sort of movement. Here is my latest:

More emails to PEBLO and PEBLO supervisor as well as legal counsel with the following information:

Today is 353 days since being referred to the MEB, and 91 days since my package was received by the PEB. By the guidance governing the IDES process my case has exceeded the overall timeline for the IDES process by 105 days and has exceeded the timeline for the by 26 days.

DoDM-1332.18 V2 - Disability Evaluation System (DES) Manual: Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES)

2. a of Enclosure 7 - IDES Timeline Goals

"no more than 295 days from the date of referral to the IDES to the date of return to duty or notification of the VA benefits decision."

2. c. (1) of Enclosure 7 - IDES Timeline Goals

(1) IPEB Stage. Complete the IPEB stage for AC Service members in no more than 65 days from the date the PEB receives the DES case file from the PEBLO to the date either the Service member requests an FPEB or (if Service member concurs with IPEB findings) when the Military Department approves the final results of the disposition decision. This timeframe includes the time allotted for the D-RAS to complete rating decisions and reconsider rating decisions to the PEB, which is part of the disposition.

might help, might not. Either way I will continue to push for accountability
 

Leggo11

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Continuing to push all options in an attempt to have some sort of movement. Here is my latest:

More emails to PEBLO and PEBLO supervisor as well as legal counsel with the following information:

Today is 353 days since being referred to the MEB, and 91 days since my package was received by the PEB. By the guidance governing the IDES process my case has exceeded the overall timeline for the IDES process by 105 days and has exceeded the timeline for the by 26 days.

DoDM-1332.18 V2 - Disability Evaluation System (DES) Manual: Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES)

2. a of Enclosure 7 - IDES Timeline Goals

"no more than 295 days from the date of referral to the IDES to the date of return to duty or notification of the VA benefits decision."

2. c. (1) of Enclosure 7 - IDES Timeline Goals

(1) IPEB Stage. Complete the IPEB stage for AC Service members in no more than 65 days from the date the PEB receives the DES case file from the PEBLO to the date either the Service member requests an FPEB or (if Service member concurs with IPEB findings) when the Military Department approves the final results of the disposition decision. This timeframe includes the time allotted for the D-RAS to complete rating decisions and reconsider rating decisions to the PEB, which is part of the disposition.

might help, might not. Either way I will continue to push for accountability
We are always held to a standard as Marines and accountability is extremely important, why should it be any different for the PEB and IDES process? Personally I hate teleworking, it's much harder to keep accountability and to actually get in contact with somebody, and only delay's processes, I hope it goes away soon.
 

BrokenVet

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Continuing to push all options in an attempt to have some sort of movement. Here is my latest:
More emails to PEBLO and PEBLO supervisor as well as legal counsel with the following information:

Today is 353 days since being referred to the MEB, and 91 days since my package was received by the PEB. By the guidance governing the IDES process my case has exceeded the overall timeline for the IDES process by 105 days and has exceeded the timeline for the by 26 days.

DoDM-1332.18 V2 - Disability Evaluation System (DES) Manual: Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES)

2. a of Enclosure 7 - IDES Timeline Goals

"no more than 295 days from the date of referral to the IDES to the date of return to duty or notification of the VA benefits decision."

2. c. (1) of Enclosure 7 - IDES Timeline Goals

(1) IPEB Stage. Complete the IPEB stage for AC Service members in no more than 65 days from the date the PEB receives the DES case file from the PEBLO to the date either the Service member requests an FPEB or (if Service member concurs with IPEB findings) when the Military Department approves the final results of the disposition decision. This timeframe includes the time allotted for the D-RAS to complete rating decisions and reconsider rating decisions to the PEB, which is part of the disposition.

might help, might not. Either way I will continue to push for accountability
This has gotten ridiculous. I really hope these guys get a fire lit under them from y’all’s efforts and start processing these boards in a timely manner. I’m about to hit my 4 month mark and it should not take this long.
 

JoeUSMC

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Continuing to push all options in an attempt to have some sort of movement. Here is my latest:

This has gotten ridiculous. I really hope these guys get a fire lit under them from y’all’s efforts and start processing these boards in a timely manner. I’m about to hit my 4 month mark and it should not take this long.
I'm hoping that it causes a positive change. I also filed an IG complaint today. My PEBLO has told me there is a backlog of 2,996 cases at the PEB because they aren't properly staffed. My also said "Currently none of the cases in the que are being worked because the PEB don’t have a Medical Officer" and
"I have been told not to expect any movement on cases anytime soon."

Figured that at this point an IG complaint was an appropriate course of action because this backlog and lack of progress for case processing at the PEB is having an adverse impact on the 2,996 Marines and Sailors waiting for answers as their military careers are in limbo. Going through an MEB is stressful. Concerns of being found fit/unfit are compounded by how the outcome of a PEB will affect a servicemember's military career, financial future, and potentially earlier than anticipated end to military service. All of these stressors are in addition to the stressors associated with the medical condition(s) that resulted in the service member being referred to the IDES process.
 

Garibay

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Dropped in on my PEBLO today to see if I could get a peek at their Tuesday snapshot. And apparently to my surprise my case was no longer with the medical officer and moved onto the VA-Disability Rating Officer which means I was found unfit. Should hear back from them this week or next week to review findings. I can not begin to explain the relief of finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Didn't really care about the findings (My EAS is right around the corner because this process takes so fucking long) I'm just glad its almost over!
 

Bbenny15

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Oh wow, that's great. Means they really ARE going through the easiest first
I mean technically it was sent up around the end of may, correct me if you I am wrong, and you are going by the MOL notification. Either way thats bounds and leaps from the speed its been at.
 

Garibay

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I mean technically it was sent up around the end of may, correct me if you I am wrong, and you are going by the MOL notification. Either way thats bounds and leaps from the speed its been at.
Yeah it was sent May 27th but accepted June 11th.

@POG yeah i guess mine is a pretty cut and dry case no MH or anything crazy.
 

Bbenny15

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Yeah it was sent May 27th but accepted June 11th.

@POG yeah i guess mine is a pretty cut and dry case no MH or anything crazy.
Mine is just about my knee, so pretty cut and dry, cant run at all and constantly in pain, cant do any physical requirements.
 

Kellog

New Member
Registered Member
E3 Marine
March 2021 referral
April 2021 Preliminary VA findings
May 2021 sent additional paperwork
October 2021 DOD and VA rating
October 2021 EAS date
 

Garibay

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
E3 Marine
March 2021 referral
April 2021 Preliminary VA findings
May 2021 sent additional paperwork
October 2021 DOD and VA rating
October 2021 EAS date
How many days did it take from when you signed your findings to when they gave you your new EAS?
 

spagooseti

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Mine is just about my knee, so pretty cut and dry, cant run at all and constantly in pain, cant do any physical requirements.
Mine is my hip, same thing can run/pass pt requirements or do my mos anymore
 

spagooseti

Well-Known Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I actually had a guy from my unit recently get unfit for his hip, he got severance pay tho, no retirement.
I've heard it is pretty hard to get retired for hip conditions unless you had a replacement. At this point I am honestly not even worried about ratings, I just want to see unfit on that paper lol
 
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