Torn Meniscus, Bone Marrow Edema

B

builtgypsy

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
I tore my meniscus. It was a discoid meniscus and the tear was bad. There was also evidence of bone marrow edema. From what I've gathered, that means something along the line of arthritis.

After a year of unsuccessful therapy, a second MRI found something was missed on the first surgery, or somehow something grew back, and there was a second surgery. Now there's evidence of bone-on-bone contact. An interesting note is the resident who I've been dealing with on and off for the last year showed me all the bad things from the photos of my surgery, the bone-on-bone contact area, the arthitis, and tried to politely tell me my Navy days were over. Then the surgeon came in, took two seconds to say "Yep, you're great and you'll be back on the boat in a month!" I must say, I don't like him.

I can't take a step up starting with the bad knee, there's just no strength. Running is out of the option as well. Squatting, kneeling, things of that nature, are immensely painful. Life in pain sucks.

Will they try to lump together the weakness, instability, pain, and loss of ROM in to one rating, since it's all relevent to the knee, or will it all be seperate and result in a higher rating?
 
Builtgypsy,

Sorry I didn't see your edit until now.

I suspect they will lump it all together as arthritis. Remember, they do not separate out the limitations, they separate different conditions. But oftentimes, you run into an issue with "pyramiding," a condition. They will not combine conditions for the same body part, under this rule. It does not sound like this is an issue in your case.

However, you can get rated for the same body area, in some instances. Example, you have a broken ankle with bone fusion, and nerve injury that causes ankle weakness. In that case, you would argue that there are two different conditions affecting different body parts (bone and nerve). The PEB often has a hard time discerning what is causing what and so they often opt for the more serious condition. Sometimes this is appropriate (and/or better for the Servicemember), othertimes it may be an issue you would want to appeal.

Even so, if you get them to rate conditions affecting the same area, you may run into issues with the amputation rule, which says the most you can get rated for an extremity is the rating for amputation of that extremity.
 
Gotta love Navy medicine...I am going through the same crap with my Navy Neurologist...hang in there builtgypsy.....

best wishes
 
Jason that's fine, I completely forgot I edited this to add a question!

It seems like even if they lumped everything together for the knee, and wrapped up what they could together under the wrist, and it's starting to look like the back may be included soon to that list, it would mean around 30+%. Maybe.

Being an E-4, and having hoped to get in 20 years (I wanted to try to beat my father in years to get to E-9 :p) my hope is to wind up on TDRL, move on to PDRL, while getting an equal or higher tax-free rating from the VA.

sfxer02 said:
Gotta love Navy medicine...I am going through the same crap with my Navy Neurologist...hang in there builtgypsy.....

best wishes
Tony
Click to expand...

I hear that. It's luck of the draw though. For example, my wrist surgeon is an amazing guy, very helpful, very friendly, eager to answer all my questions even if it takes me a while to think them up.

My knee doctor? I had two. The first one was an ex-SEAL who took his time with me and answered all my questions. He even let me do a second MRI when I was concerned I would have a discoid meniscus in that one as well. But he retired. The second one? Hell bent on getting me back to full duty. Always rushing through the answers to my questions and asking if I feel I'm ready to get back on the boat.

Sfxer02, I hope everything turns out in your favor. My hope for all of us, really.

-Guy
 
Guy,

By the way, I am going to see a Navy Neurologist at Great Lakes Chicago (where you went to boot camp)

Do you know how the medical staff is there? Or any experiences with them there?


Thanks and best wishes to you as well
Tony
 
I actually wound up at the Naval hospital in Great Lakes when the clinic at RTC managed to forget to give me painkillers after they ripped my wisdom teeth out. That's a story in itself.

The people that I dealt with were helpful. I really hope you have the same experience I did. I think new recruits who wind up with actual medical issues in boot camp (mostly seemed like broken bones or respiratory problems, like someone lying about not having asthma to get in, when I went there) wind up at the Naval hospital.

I've been to military hospitals in San Diego, Great Lakes, Charleston, and one in Northern California (I think Lemoore?). Overall, all the staff had been very friendly, the nurses were kind, and the doctors were nearly all helpful.

One key thing that I'm going to expand into a more detailed post soon is the advise I got from an old girlfriend who was an occupational therapist and former head of the entire rehab department.

She told me doctors will always try to rush through your appointment because they have so many other people to see. They give off this vibe that you should try to hurry up as well. DO NOT. Take a deep breath when they come in, calm yourself down, and don't let them rush you. Make a list of everything you want to talk about. Make sure every issue on your list is talked over until you are satisfied.

Do some research into available treatments for what your medical issue is. After you find out how they want to treat you, make sure they tell you why that way is better than any of the other options.

Press them. Don't let them press you.

Good luck, man! I went to boot camp this month three years ago. Eight feet of snow. Fun times.

-Guy
 
Guy,

Thanks, well when I go see him it is an examination that my Command wanted done to see if I was "fit for duty", which in their eyes I am not, and in my eyes I am not either. The amount of work I miss is crazy an my SgtMaj is not happy with me getting paid for not reporting for duty.

As far as th treatment plans available, I have been seeing a civilian neurologist since early September and have tried almost 10 different meds, did a MRI with a discovered "Venous angioma and "Gliotic Scarring" on my brain, a normal EEG. So it is pretty much going to be a clear cut decision for the military neurologist, MEB or more limited duty (which I already spent 8 months on). I am geussing from all the treatment I have had the past 5 months with no results he will probably fwd me to a MEB.

He probably won't be happy with having to do a NARSUM though..
 
Everything sounds pretty cut and dry then. If I've gathered anything from the many doctors I've visited, I would hazard to say since what you're going to see him for is mainly for administrative purposes, he'll do a quick exam, see how you feel about staying it or getting out, and then recommend an MEB.

I just hope this process isn't wearing you down too bad. It's so easy to get stressed out and depressed.

-Guy
 
Oh it is wearing me down big time, not only do my migraines cause me to be depressed and have anxiety. My SgtMaj isn't happy nor is my command happy. I just wish I wouldn't have sucked it up for as long as I did, I would probably be either out by now or able to control my migraines.

However, you and everyone else on this board keep me going...much love :)


Thanks
 
My command wasn't happy. It's been so long now they've either forgotten about me or just don't care. I don't feel like I'm very useful to my command, which is depressing. I'm determined to be useful wherever else I can be. This forum is one example.

It seems to me people need to fill that they have a purpose, a goal to achieve, a dream to pursue, what have you. It also seems to me that I can either be in pain sitting infront of the television feeling depressed all day, or I can be in pain getting out and doing the things I love. It aggravates the pain, sure, but I refuse to live under a rock for the rest of my life because of the cards I was delt.

-Guy
 
Well, I have just been reading your post as it pertains to myself. I am further along in the process. I have bilateral discoid meniscy, total of 3 surgeries now. I have already been threw the informal med board and recieved 10%. So, just a heads up of what to expect. I am fighting the infomal decission wether it is for not. Gathering my info, getting my cane perscribed here shortly and working on mew scans and all.

The navy is big on getting you back to the boat. You figure I have been in 13 years now an E-5 in the Navy. My first surgery was 7 years ago and they have worked to keep me in. Mind you at my request. After my third surgery and being the first on the left knee I decided it was time to let it go. Mainly when I tried to simply dig a hole in my yard and I fell flat on my butt.

I too have migraines and deal with the whole depression thing. Especially feeling like I have been slapped by them with their decision. Time will tell for me as well as you. Good luck, at least you are here now so you can get smart abou tall of this.
 
Hyenaboy, welcome to the forum! I'm two surgeries in, and the doctor and I both agree no more. I just got sideswiped by the MEB office, they're overlaying my second LIMDU halfway past my first LIMDU, so I'm getting about 10 months instead of 12. I'm happy with that, it means this will be end two months sooner than it could have.

I don't even know how to begin with trying to go to my command to discuss trying to see a psychologist. I'm thinking about taking some leave and going to an MTF sick call and telling my command after the fact.

I really appreciate the heads up. I'm not even about to trust the military to get it right, so I'm hiring outside representation to help. I'm not bitter against the Navy, I've enjoyed the time I've been in, it's just administrative and military are two words that should rarely ever be used in the same sentence.

How long did it take you from the MEB board to getting a decision from the informal PEB?
 
My informal came back with in 2 and a half weeks fromthe time they recieved it in DC. I just today got a call from my JAG in DC with my formal date of April 24th. So, time will tell for me. The Lawyer could not say anything yet but I hope to hear from them soon. Atleast I have some time with the lawyer unlke the night mares I have been reading about on here. Hopefully things work out for both of us.
 
That really doesn't sound like a bad time frame at all. It blows my mind how random these dates are between different people.

There's only been one study I've been able to find on the long-term after effects of discoid meniscus repair. If I remember, nearly everyone the study followed over the years wound up with arthritis, a permanent limp, soreness, increasing pain with activity. That lack of blood supply to the area makes it a PITA to get healed.

Good luck at the formal!
 
I have had fun researching all kinds of things. Now, the informal coded me as a 5003 of degenerative arthitis. Reading my medical record shows the three surgeries and there finding boils down to runners knee. Which in researching that comes back as runners knee in the younger but the same diagnosis in older equals arthritis. So a fun play on words.

They of course for me included my over weight status. My first surgery was 8 years ago and since then I have been restricted from running. I recently found out as well that the likely hood of me having a bad gallbladder is also the case. Waiting on word from the gastorenterologist on that still. With researching the gallbladder I find that affects the way the body deals with fats and storage of fats. May not help much at the board but worth a look anyways.

Atleast I was able to get a lawyer with some decent amount of time before the board. I am hoping that helps. I figure if I don't hear back in 2 weeks I will be calling again. Good luck on your case as well. I will let you know more when I do.
 
Well, my formal is scheduled for the 29th of april. I have talked to my lawyer a few times so far, going to call again today. She is trying to get me out of the 5003 code and into one of three others that I also fit into. They did new MRI's and found that I have another lateral meniscal tear. Go figure right. So not sure what is going to happen yet. Hope is going well for the rest of you.
 
Actually a little of both. The lawyer requested it because mine were over a year old. The doctor also did a Lachman's test prior to the MRI and I failed the test for possible lateral meniscal tear again.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top