Unfit just because I'm a pilot?

RAZOR

RAZOR

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Just found out that I've been found unfit by the IPEB. I expect to go to the formal board. I've got 15.5 YOS and would like to make it to 20.

My contentions are: Polindromic rheumatism (New), GERD/hiatal hernia (New), Ganglion, right wrist (New), Scar, head, wrist (New), Dysphagia (New), Joint pain elbows, wrists, hands, back, hips, knees (New), Rhinitis (New), PTSD (New)

From the C&P, all ROMs were normal for the joint issues/arthritis. X-rays showed swelling in my knees and minor DDD in three places on my spine (one each in L, T, and C). I've got a slight sliding hiatal hernia. The GERD is controlled with waiverable meds. Dysphagia is controlled with waiverable meds. PTSD was written up to be moderate (right at the 30% scale in the VASRD).

Obviously, there is nothing there that is mind-shattering. I'm disappointed that I've been found unfit. I feel that the only reason I was found unfit was due to the fact that I'm a pilot. I plan on appealing and going to the FPEB. I will have exceedingly strong support from my chain of command. I know I won't be able to fly any more, but I don't see any reason why I can't serve in an administrative fashion.

Any thoughts, opinions?
 
maparker said:
What branch of service?
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Air Force

I found out that I was only found unfit for the arthritis. I believe this is because, when my NARSUM was written, I had just started a new medication. The NARSUM was written as if the condition is unstable. I have been on the meds for about 6 months now and have seen improvement.

If my logic is right, can the FPEB return me to duty?
 
What is the medicine? Have you looked into limited active service to remain on active duty despite being unfit? Are you eligible for a TERA retirement?

Mike
 
Mike, thanks for your questions.

I'm on methotrexate and humira.

I'm not eligible for TERA because of my Air Force specialty (11S).

I would be interested in limited active service, but I don't know if that is an option since I haven't met the FPEB yet.
 
In the past I have seen AF PEB's state that drugs like Humira are "incompatible with the rigors of military service" and use that as the basis for stating the condition is unfitting. I use Enbrel and my Army PEB (2005) stated I was fit and they refused to address the impact of Enbrel on my fitness. So, there is discrepancies on how the Services deal with TNF medications.

Mike
 
Humira is waiverable for pilots in the Air Force, but methotrexate isn't. I know I can't fly while on MTX, but I can certainly fill an adminstrative role.
 
Hey Razor, I'm a guard/reserve pilot and am just finishing up my PEB for Spondyloarthropathy. I am also on those same drugs along with meloxicam and prednisone on occasions. Like you said those drugs are non-waiverable for flying, but they also make you non deployable. The narsum in my peb package recommended retention but the PEB still found me unfit. Mike Parker's info paper about spondyloarthopathies and arthritis was very helpful. Good luck, pm if you have any questions.
 
RAZOR said:
Humira is waiverable for pilots in the Air Force, but methotrexate isn't. I know I can't fly while on MTX, but I can certainly fill an adminstrative role.
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Your fit/unfit is based solely upon your AFSC, the FPEB can return you duty with limitation codes and you could cross train from there if otherwise eligible, but the FPEB/PEB etc. cannot cross train you.

I am also curious as to the amount of medications your taking, where the ROMS done while medicated or without? how is your pain/ROM without medication? I would also recommend a FPEB just to get your PTSD rated as unfitting, because with the arthritis you may not make the 30% mark, I am unsure how the medication plays into that though, since if your being treated with Humira it should be 60%, but your range of motion rates 0%'s so maybe the lowest possible rating would be applied of 10% per major joint group I really do not know its interesting to be sure.
 
RAZOR said:
TA


This is exactly want I want them to do. How do I make it happen?
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You tell the FPEB that, and see if your command as high up as possible will support that and submit that paperwork to the FPEB and argue your case. That is the only way I know of. However if you cannot deploy in any AFSC or complete the pt test all components, then they may not find in your favor. Bottom line when it comes to that type of finding from what I have seen, it is almost entirerly based on the amount of support IN WRITING your chain all the way up, is willing to provide to you.
 
TSgt Twitch said:
You tell the FPEB that, and see if your command as high up as possible will support that and submit that paperwork to the FPEB and argue your case. That is the only way I know of. However if you cannot deploy in any AFSC or complete the pt test all components, then they may not find in your favor. Bottom line when it comes to that type of finding from what I have seen, it is almost entirerly based on the amount of support IN WRITING your chain all the way up, is willing to provide to you.
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What about people outside of my current chain. I've got a couple of O-6's that I used to work for that would write on my behalf in addition to every O-6 in my current chain.
 
RAZOR said:
What about people outside of my current chain. I've got a couple of O-6's that I used to work for that would write on my behalf in addition to every O-6 in my current chain.
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Some may say the more the better, others may not. I would lean towards those that are currently in your chain peers/leaders/subordinates, I would think there is a limit before the boards human nature takes over and just starts glossing over them. Also by no means is it still a guarantee, its just a way for to you back up your plea.
 
Razor, PM me as well if you like. I just had my FPEB and am now in the SECAF appeal. I'm also a pilot, a year ahead of you, although my med condition is different, and my appeal contentions are different than yours in part because I concede that I'm unfit for service. As much as I'd like to stay in, it's just not possible. (not to mention how the AF is freaking out about fitness, regardless of any performance reasons) Are you able to pass the fit test still? What you don't want is to be returned to duty, then admin separated because your sickness makes you unable to pass.

Sorry to say, what I have seen over and over again through the IDES process is a "fast and loose" interpretation of regulations and laws. The FPEB strongly emphasized to me that "anything can be waived", even though they refused to submit or grant any waivers. On that basis, the FPEB and other officials in the IDES process have chosen to stick to regs when they want to make an unfit decision, but yet ignored the same regs in order to deny appeal contentions they didn't want to grant. In some instances, they highly relied on my AFSC as a pilot to deem unfit, but then in others said my AFSC was unimportant in making determinations.

So you have an uphill battle to fight, but not insurmountable. I highly recommend getting good legal representation that will hold everyone in the IDES process to the regs they should be following, so they don't play fast and loose with you too.
 
Law prohibits the Services from administratively separating or denying reenlistment for a condition a PEB deems fitting.

Mike
 
maparker said:
Law prohibits the Services from administratively separating or denying reenlistment for a condition a PEB deems fitting.

Mike
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but, it does not prevent them from separating them if they fail PT tests multiple times. Even if good now, what will the next year or years bring?
 
If the fitting condition prevents passing of the PT test, one cannot be separated for not passing the test.

Mike
 
maparker said:
Law prohibits the Services from administratively separating or denying reenlistment for a condition a PEB deems fitting.

Mike
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What the law prohibits doesn't seem to matter to the AF in my opinion. I was told by my unit last week that two of my conditions were not LOD since I didn't aggravate them and my contention was not that I aggravated them but that they simply have never gotten better. The problem is they talk you in to returning to duty before you are actually better and then when you aren't better they say it's not on us. I had a person two years ago tell me that they needed to get me off of my profile and return me to duty and if I did so I could stay in and continue my career. It didn't matter to that person that I wasn't better and all they cared about was getting me off their IMR list. My whole career has been filled with B.S. like this. I will give you a great example. At my first duty station while on AD I injured my shoulder. I couldn't lift my arm above my shoulder and spent everyday in a tremedous amounts of pain. They gave me Motrin! They put me on a two week profile with no above head work, and no lifting over 10lbs. My unit made me mow grass with a push mower and I did it and suffered the whole time until I started doing it with one arm because I couldn't say no. When I returned to the doctor later in the week and told him about it he wrote on the profile NO MOWING LAWNS in 2" letters so then they gave me a short stool and made me take a screw driver and dig grass from between the brick paving stones since I couldn't mow grass anymore. Four months after injuring my shoulder I finally saw a PCM who referred me for an MRI and a month later I had the MRI. My results came back that I had torn my labrum, and a few other things were wrong too. They sent me to physical therapy two days a week for almost six months and then they returned me to duty after my symptoms improved and I just got to the point to where I was able to live with it. Fast forward 12 years and my hand is going numb and I can hardly dress myself. I went to my personal doctor since I am in the Guard now and he referred me for an MRI and I still have the same exact injuries. I have been told that I didn't aggravate the injury in the LOD. I look at it like this, if you have a leaking pipe under the sink and you wrap it with duct tape you really didn't fix the problem. If you also never look under the sink again to see if the duct tape is still doing a good job of stopping the leak then I guess it's fixed because you neverr look to verify if the problem was fixed and if it wasn't fixed and the pipe eventually ruptures then it's the pipes fault and not your since you half ass fixed it in the first place. I am the pipe in the analogy and the AF duct taped me by sending me to physical therapy and never did another MRI (looked under the sink) to see if the physical therapy made me better or just masked the problem and no by the definition of the law, as I read it, I incurred an injury while entitled to base pay and it never got better and I still have the injury but I will receive no compensation from the AF through the PEB because it's not in the LOD and all injuries listed on the MEB report have to have LOD's. I am going through the IDES process because I have an LOD for a knee injury and that's all that was listed by the MEB and that's all I will be compensated for and I have finally just accepted it and figured out it doesn't matter what I think that the AF is going to do what the AF is going to do. I really just want this whole IDES thing to end and it seems that it never will. Today is day number 304 in IDES and I don't have my proposed ratings yet.
 
Bobby,

I feel your pain. Since 2005 I have been on a quest to get the Services to follow well-established disability laws, regulations and policies. I have had some success but much work remains. I advise you to appeal and point out the law/regulation/policy that was not followed. You need to document their errors to be successful in future appeals/court actions.

Mike
 
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