Promotion upon medical discharge

Please, I need help to understand this.
I was E4 since 2021. I was never promoted before being Medborded out from Active Duty in February 2024.
Today, I got mail from DAFS states that I'm E-5. I'm confuse.
 
God'sGrace said:
Please, I need help to understand this.
I was E4 since 2021. I was never promoted before being Medborded out from Active Duty in February 2024.
Today, I got mail from DAFS states that I'm E-5. I'm confuse.
Click to expand...
I just replied in another thread. It has no bearing on anything other than being able to say you are retired at a higher rank.
 
Provis said:
I just replied in another thread. It has no bearing on anything other than being able to say you are retired at a higher rank.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your response... I was confuse... Before I was never promoted and did not even now about until DFAS sent me the letter for SGT... I am Air Force.
 
I was medically retired 60% (PDRL) June 10 2019. Retirement orders cut 6 May 2019 with separation on 10 June 2019. On 15 May 2019 an amendment was added changing retired rank from E7 to E8. I was on a NG promotion list and not flagged. My NGB22 (DD214 equivalent) does not reflect E8. My retired ID card does reflect E8 currently, but gets taken away from me every time I use it to enter government spaces because when scanned the rank is no longer loaded in government systems, it’s says I’m an E7 which is frustrating when all I have are the retirement orders. I am under the high 36 retired pay formula and understand the E8 doesn’t change pay. DFAS has me as E7 in MYPAY.

My Questions:

Is something not loaded correctly in the government systems?

Are DFAS systems supposed to reflect E8 or E7? They have requested DOR and high 36 multiple times since my retirement but no one is answering?

I’m pretty sure my NGB22 should reflect E8 but not 100% sure.

Where is the new rank used?
Orders, ID Cards, NGB22’s/DD214’s
DFAS?
 
SFC H said:
I was medically retired 60% (PDRL) June 10 2019. Retirement orders cut 6 May 2019 with separation on 10 June 2019. On 15 May 2019 an amendment was added changing retired rank from E7 to E8. I was on a NG promotion list and not flagged. My NGB22 (DD214 equivalent) does not reflect E8. My retired ID card does reflect E8 currently, but gets taken away from me every time I use it to enter government spaces because when scanned the rank is no longer loaded in government systems, it’s says I’m an E7 which is frustrating when all I have are the retirement orders. I am under the high 36 retired pay formula and understand the E8 doesn’t change pay. DFAS has me as E7 in MYPAY.

My Questions:

Is something not loaded correctly in the government systems?

Are DFAS systems supposed to reflect E8 or E7? They have requested DOR and high 36 multiple times since my retirement but no one is answering?

I’m pretty sure my NGB22 should reflect E8 but not 100% sure.

Where is the new rank used?
Orders, ID Cards, NGB22’s/DD214’s
DFAS?
Click to expand...
While I did not have the same problem, my recent issue sounds similar. Due to some systems showing me PDRL retired and some incorrectly showing me separated, it forced me to trace out the issue as I could not get a retirement ID.

Being NG like you, I found some duplicate systems that were not matched up. The National Guard DPO may be your issue as that was mine. The regular army side DMDC, iPERMs and IPPSA had me correct. However DEERs, DFAS and NG DPO all had me as separated. What's strange is I was told DEERs feeds IPPSA. Regardless, it now appears corrected, but I will confirm tomorrow.

If you go to your DEERs office, you can ask for a "site security manager". They are the upper level DEERs employee. They have access to direct emails that they will not give out to the SM/veterans. These email addresses will reach these different departments and possibly be able to at least tell you which area is not matching. And from there you can have the site security manager scan in your orders as I did and send them to all these various departments via those special NGB emails. Have them include your personal email or any professional one you have available still so that way you can be on the email chain as I am. It helps immensely as I can now view the communications.

I'm not sure if this will resolve your problem but it's worth a try.
 
Last edited:
You are correct that my rank is not loaded correctly across all systems. Some system managers are unwilling to talk or assist with this, I’m not sure if they don’t act on the SM word alone. Thus far I know the E8 rank is not loaded in HRC, DPO, DFAS and DEERS.

This what I think happened. Retirement orders were signed 2 May 2019 and promotion amendment was received 15 May 2019. I believe the main retirement order was sent to the perspective systems without the amendment order which came 13 days after the fact. I have reached out to USAPDA, HRC, DPO, Virginia G1, Virginia HRO and RSO and all can’t seem to know how to correct this mess.

Some managers explain I need a promotion order in addition to the retirement order, remember this is a DES retirement so 10 USC 1372 says a higher grade is authorized with 10 USC 1410 explaining my retirement is calculated off high 36 months and not base pay or BRS, so no pay increase is authorized.

Who is responsible for correcting this, do they resubmit the paperwork with an explanation. I have a DFAS retired pay account with E7 pay even though it’s waived. Very frustrated.
 
I hear ya. When I realized the problem I was in, I reached out to the NG RSO. However, he could not do anything and just passed me back to deers. Unlike having a chain of command, it feels like there is no one or entity in place to help. The Deers office really was confused on a course of action. I just refused to leave till messages/emails were sent out.

I would say keep pressing these various departments. And in a worse case file an ABCMR.

Good luck!
 
I’m tracking. My retirement orders have been loaded in DEERS at least three times in the past six years. My ID will get taken until I produce the orders. So DEERS or someone is removing them for some reason at a later date. The problem lies in which department or section sends said orders out to the other departments for updates because the SM can’t update this information. And my RSO said exactly what you said, they kicked the can to my state G1 which doesn’t know how to correct the situation. I was told by HRC that I may have to file for an ABCMR that could take a couple years.

Where or who does the PEBLO send the signed DA199 and orders to?
 
SFC H said:
Where or who does the PEBLO send the signed DA199 and orders to?
Click to expand...
That's actually what I started to wonder upon dealing with my problem. I do not know, but would guess NGB. Maybe someone here can chime in.
 
I feel like it has to be HRC that does this transaction. With you being retired and no longer in IPPS-A it likely has to be a manual transaction in HRC’s IWS-SMS that updates TAPDB so other connected systems populate. I know IWS-SMS holds Veterans records. The problem is finding someone with access to update rank. You’d think someone from HRC promotions branch would be able to assist. I’m actually going through a grade determination board currently for my retirement rank, I’ll post my results when I find out, but unlike you, my rank will be determined by the ABCMR.

Here is a link I found that has a list of IWS-SMS contacts that might be able to help.

 
PolloxTroy08 said:
I feel like it has to be HRC that does this transaction. With you being retired and no longer in IPPS-A it likely has to be a manual transaction in HRC’s IWS-SMS that updates TAPDB so other connected systems populate. I know IWS-SMS holds Veterans records. The problem is finding someone with access to update rank. You’d think someone from HRC promotions branch would be able to assist. I’m actually going through a grade determination board currently for my retirement rank, I’ll post my results when I find out, but unlike you, my rank will be determined by the ABCMR.

Here is a link I found that has a list of IWS-SMS contacts that might be able to help.

Click to expand...
I may end up in the same board for retirement rank. Any details you share would be appreciated upon results. Thanks.
 
I called HRC mid 2024 and received sympathy and was told to create a ticket in DPO. DPO followed up with contact my branch USAPDA. USAPDA said contact your RSO that said to contact your G1.
 
Last edited:
This may actually be one of the few times a congressional actually nets positive results, have you written one yet? You shouldn’t be referred to an ABCMR as this is not a case of proving justification, you have the retirement orders with amendment showing the correct rank. A congressional would make the NGB explain the process for this action, identify which agency failed you, and then task them with completing it.

If you were active duty, I don’t think you would have had this issue, but sounds like one of those situations that’s rare enough (especially in the ARNG) that they either don’t know how to do it or are incorrectly adding an additional requirement like having actual promotion orders.

Where did you transition out of? Who cut your retirement orders? Virginia HRO/G1? On active duty, I believe the responsible agency would have been the installation transition processing officer (TRANSPROC). This is who the PEB/PEBLO send your medical retirement findings to; your state should have the equivalent. I believe they are the ones should have made sure your DD214 was updated and the promotion transaction was completed in IWS-SMS to reflect in other systems.

Incidentally, before IPPS-A this happened all the time with all the Army components having different HR programs since none of them talked (it may still happen a lot). I went from being a Reserve MAJ to an AD SSG and was showing up in DEERS as a MAJ (even though my CAC showed SSG) until I had a baby 3 years later and someone at the installation caught it and updated it. Even funnier, I was already a SSG for 5 months when I was notified of my promotion board to LTC, and it wasn’t just being included on a wrong email, the system showed I was in the board and I could look at my board file and everything.
 
Wow, first thing, thank you!
- I had a congressional by my local congressman into DFAS. They said it was honorably and no rank change. They fired off two letters asking for DOR & high 36 cal. Never heard anything until honorary letter.

- I was NG when I went through my MEB 6 yrs ago, I don’t remember right where, Kentucky, I was told all DES cases are processed through active duty.

- My orders are from DOA USAPDA

- Being NG I received a NGB22 w E7 rank

This what I speculate happened, my DA199 is signed and dated 2 May 2019 by all parties with a PDRL 10 June 2019. My amendment order is dated 15 May 2019 with the same PDRL date.

I speculate my DES package was sent way before the amendment order. This why DFAS, HRC, DEERS and others have me as E7.

Finally, I was told recently that a ABCMR may be the only option. This was the supervisor of my RSO. Which in turn >G1>USAPDA>CONGRESS>DFAS>HONORABLE>

My congressman is still willing to help but which direction to point them and one would think the Army could fix its own problems.

I appreciate you and hope you received back pay!
 
Last edited:
Forgot to include this link to HRC’s TRANSPROC page. I know you contacted someone at HRC, but I’d try this office again and hope that someone is smart/willing enough to actually help you because ultimately, HRC absolutely has the authority and ability to help you.

 
I will try but I already forecast a congressional inquiry into HRC.
 
Last edited:
I would contact the HRC TRANSPROC office first and see if they can help you or at the very least advise you of the correct process without having to go through ABCMR. If that doesn’t work, I’d write your congressman back and point your finger at HRC or NGB to respond and fix. It makes some sense DFAS wasn’t helpful because your retirement pay isn’t affected and they’re not the ones to fix the issue. It may also not be a bad idea to shoot a couple of emails off to some active duty installation TRANSPROCs with your issue to see if they can identify what went wrong and how it should have gone/can be fixed.

I’ve been reading through some of the other stuff you’ve posted about the issue. Do you believe that the promotion should be “honorary?” From your research, is that how medboard promotions are classified? From first glance, it would seem to me that an honorary promotion is different then being promoted as a result of a medboard because you’re on a promotion list.
 
No the promotion shouldn’t have been honorable, per 10 USC 1310 tells me I am authorized a DES promotion because I was promotable. 10 USC 1472 tells me my retirement pay is under the high 36. Pay is awarded but offset via VA comp. The E8 pay is not. As long as receive VA I won’t get any military pay. I was at the top of our promotion list the year I went PDRL. So to me I earned a regular promotion with out pay, not post, not tomestone or honorable. I believe I earned that. And I believe DFAS upper management has made a decision and aren’t going to make any changes unless told by HRC, I hope.

If you have a chance
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1023.png
    IMG_1023.png
    687 KB · Views: 8
  • IMG_1020.png
    IMG_1020.png
    857.4 KB · Views: 11
Last edited:
Example of an honorary promotion
 

Attachments

  • IMG_3891.png
    IMG_3891.png
    839.2 KB · Views: 6
SFC H said:
No the promotion shouldn’t have been honorable, per 10 USC 1310 tells me I am authorized a DES promotion because I was promotable. 10 USC 1472 tells me my retirement pay is under the high 36. Pay is awarded but offset via VA comp. The E8 pay is not. As long as receive VA I won’t get any military pay. I was at the top of our promotion list the year I went PDRL. So to me I earned a regular promotion with out pay, not post, not tomestone or honorable. I believe I earned that. And I believe DFAS upper management has made a decision and aren’t going to make any changes unless told by HRC, I hope.

If you have a chance
Click to expand...
I definitely think you are correct. Not sure why DFAS is saying it's "honorary" when it seems clearly you were promoted IAW 10 USC 1372(3) and AR 600-8-19, 1-24. I know the only proof of your promotion you have is the amendment to your retirement orders; does it by chance state what authority you were promoted on it? I really wonder how DFAS "determined" this and it's a shame they didn't include the reasoning; it may be worth you contacting them through that email and asking. It'd be really obtuse, but I wonder if they just saw you were promoted on the last day of your service and assumed it was honorary.

Now that I think about it, it would probably be useful to submit a IG complaint to your state's IG office. One thing IG offices are at least good at doing usually is determining what Army policy is and the process that should be followed. Their investigation may help push the responsible office to fix the mistake. Even if it doesn't, it will provide you more evidence to put in a congressional to try to force their hand or for the ABCMR board if it comes to it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top