C&P Exam notes pure fiction

J

jspowell99

PEB Forum Regular Member
I was just reading the c&p exam notes included with the NARSUM and they are mostly made up by the doctor. The exam for my physical issues (8 total) lasted about 30 minutes before I was sent off for X-rays.

However, reading the notes, it would give the impression that he performed all kinds of tests that he did not.

Now most of the tests I really don't care if he performed or not, since they don't concern my MEB issues. However, the ROM tests for my back and knee do concern me. Although he did do a full line of tests for my back, he didn't use a measuring device... he just "eyeballed" it. And for my knee, he didn't do an extension test... yet on the notes he put that I had full range of motion (I'm currently 10% SC for right knee... so I can say goodbye to that rating if I let it stand).

Anyone else had this problem? Any advice?
 
Talk to your PEBLO and MSC and let them know your physical was not completed correctly. Ask for an IPR and appeal your NARSUM on the basis your exam was not done correctly. Specifically mention the fact the Dr did not use a genometer.
 
My ortho doctor was a POS. Even tho he used a genometer, he BS'd on the exam results. I am going thru the fight right now.

The PEBLO, MSC and Legal are still trying to figure it out. Bottom line is let it be known, because if they have a track record, they pop up on a radar screen.

Draco
 
jspowell, I'm in the same boat...C&P exam was a wash. My examiner wasn't very in tune with my issues and my ROM measurements seem to have doubled since my Physical Therapist did them even though my condition has worsened. The C&P measurements she put down would be a bit high for Gumby.

I'll be interested to see/follow your posts to see how it plays out. Any advice on how to get an indepenent review would be appreciated...my package is at AFPC for adjudication now so once it comes back I'm assuming that is when my real fight will begin.
 
I have the same problem. The doctor I saw in Augusta GA for my C&P never did half of the stuff she put on the NARSUM. I appealed it but it was still denied even though I have a VA rating for it already. She never used the Ganometer to measure my ROM but put in the report that there was a full eval done for ROM and it was all within normal limits. Of course I have been in the MEB process for 4 years now and not one thing has been done right yet. The JAG officer that is assigned to me is not much help either.
 
Funny...most places have "Comment Card" boxes on the check in windows. I bet a study would find that there are ZERO Customer Satisfaction Comment Cards in ANY of these offices, world wide. :mad: I just wish these people could take the personal bias out of it and look and treat us like machines going in for repair. This part is broken, that part is broken. I can't say all, but most seem to have a personal grudge about SMs getting the benefits that we deserve. UGH...this is killing my normally high Christmas Spirit. Time to let it go until after the new year.

Best wishes to all...
 
CrackedBack, this is why there is the ICE comment system. You can do it at a kiosk in the MTF or do it from home. Believe me, ICE comments work. They are routed through the whole supervisory chain and are a big deal for the GS civilians. A couple bad ICE comments get's then fired.

When I worked at ACS during my transition, I saw grown men to the point of tears and saw workers panic. When a dime is dropped there, they get called on it.

On the flip side, that's why you need to do good ICE comments too. This again goes through the whole supervisory chain and get's kudos to the work. It is really amazing how every supervisor then brags via email about how good their worker is. It's a good system and really works.
 
Ranger...good call. Didn't think about that. I was under the impression that the ICE system was for a different type of service...like the Gym, golf course and rec center. If that's the case, I'll certainly look into it.

Cheers,
Tim
 
ICE is for everything. I put it good comments for my PEBLO and NCM. It was good for them, they got some good kudos out of it and were very happy. It's a big deal for all of these guys. I can see how a bad comment would blow up on them.
 
I've used ICE complaints to great effect when dealing with AAFEE$ price gouging - good to know that system covers the VA as well. I also gave my PCM & his tech a good ICE report after they took real good care of me the day I had injections in my back and gave one to the referral management gal that worked my appts to get checked out off base.

I can also vouch for the level of attention that the ICE reports get. Last year I started a ICE "letter writing" campaign about issues with the on base ISP. I got a response from the head of the Pacific region AAFES TELECOM guy and they held a "townhall" meeting to respond to all the complaints. I literally had the AAFES TELECOM guy begging me to call off the letter writing campaign because each letter that came in he "had to do an investigation" and "all I've been doing all week is answering complaints"
 
usaf1 said:
I've used ICE complaints to great effect when dealing with AAFEE$ price gouging - good to know that system covers the VA as well. I also gave my PCM & his tech a good ICE report after they took real good care of me the day I had injections in my back and gave one to the referral management gal that worked my appts to get checked out off base.

I can also vouch for the level of attention that the ICE reports get. Last year I started a ICE "letter writing" campaign about issues with the on base ISP. I got a response from the head of the Pacific region AAFES TELECOM guy and they held a "townhall" meeting to respond to all the complaints. I literally had the AAFES TELECOM guy begging me to call off the letter writing campaign because each letter that came in he "had to do an investigation" and "all I've been doing all week is answering complaints"
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The ICE will cover the VA MSC on post, but does not extend to VA care outside the military system. It's a catch all for on base services, but doesn't cover anything outside. I am glad it worked favorably for you as well. As you can see, it is a very powerful tool that very few know about.
 
Thanks for the tips...I've got some good words for some if the folks that have worked hard for me ans my case. I certainly don't mind helping them out with praises as they've moved me along quite nicely. Cheers and enjoy the new year. Hopefully it'll be a good year for ALL of us
 
My doc didnt use a goneometer either. I appealed but it was denied at the MEB level. Their argument was that I would have failed to meet retention standards with or without a goniometer. They also said that there was no evidence to suggest that a goniometer was not used. I was 50% of the people in the room but I guess in my word vs. his, he won.
 
jspowell99 said:
I was just reading the c&p exam notes included with the NARSUM and they are mostly made up by the doctor. The exam for my physical issues (8 total) lasted about 30 minutes before I was sent off for X-rays.

However, reading the notes, it would give the impression that he performed all kinds of tests that he did not.

Now most of the tests I really don't care if he performed or not, since they don't concern my MEB issues. However, the ROM tests for my back and knee do concern me. Although he did do a full line of tests for my back, he didn't use a measuring device... he just "eyeballed" it. And for my knee, he didn't do an extension test... yet on the notes he put that I had full range of motion (I'm currently 10% SC for right knee... so I can say goodbye to that rating if I let it stand).

Anyone else had this problem? Any advice?
Click to expand...


What base did they do this c&p at ?
 
The doc who did my ROM used one on me but he made me keep going even though I was obviously in pain. I'm thinking of doing a reconsideration because I had my civilian physical therapist do them several times and came up with way different numbers. Plus on my little grip test they do the guy at my C&P exams used his fingers!?!?!!? And not the machine that measures grip strength. Seems like they are really trying to stick us. Too bad we can't claim all the anal raping they've done to us as a condition. I got 70% DoD and 80% va but all my ROM tests got me a bunch of 10%'s when they should be 20's at least.
 
I think that it varies from place to place. My evaluator used the device to measure and stopped me when i felt pain...which was good...however, the numbers that came back were way beyond my "pain point." You are correct that there are differences and that there are some folks out there who seem to almost have a chip on their shoulder when doing these evals. The gudiance says that:

§ 4.23 Attitude of rating officers.​

It is to be remembered that the majority of applicants are disabled persons who are seeking benefits of law to which they believe themselves entitled. In the exercise of his or her functions, rating officers must not allow their personal feelings to intrude; an antagonistic, critical, or even abusive attitude on the part of a claimant should not in any instance influence the officers in the handling of the case. Fairness and courtesy must at all times be shown to applicants by all employees whose duties bring them in contact, directly or indirectly, with the Department's claimants.

Just wish that everyone could follow the above guidance. Best of luck to you all.
 
some of these c&p doc's are nothing more than fiscal guardians, and sadly, most PEBLOs are so run down with case to case of nonstop soldiers, they don't care much half the time and just want the case complete in time.
 
Armydan said:
My doc didnt use a goneometer either. I appealed but it was denied at the MEB level. Their argument was that I would have failed to meet retention standards with or without a goniometer. They also said that there was no evidence to suggest that a goniometer was not used. I was 50% of the people in the room but I guess in my word vs. his, he won.
Click to expand...

My first supervisor always said to "look out for number one." 23 years ago and still going by that saying. I have requested a second set of measurements for my back ROM as I didn't agree with what was put down originally. Thankfully, they have agreed to a second session with a witness in the room. I am sorry, Armydan, that you seem to have gotten screwed...however, look out for number one!!! Keep pressing the issue and request that there be a second measurement with a witness to verify that your measurements are noted at point of pain. Good luck to you...hope it works out for ALL of us.
 
Redstripe101 said:
some of these c&p doc's are nothing more than fiscal guardians, and sadly, most PEBLOs are so run down with case to case of nonstop soldiers, they don't care much half the time and just want the case complete in time.
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A true shame, Redstripe101...but I think you're right. You'd think that with the number of cases open and opening, some of these agencies would put a little more effort into manning in the PEBLO offices. I see folks in the hospital sitting around doing nothing and these folks could help take some of the pressure off of these PEBLOs by filing, calling people, researching case statuses??? I've been blessed with a good PEBLO but have read a lot of horror stories. As for the C&P folks, that is a different story...not so much on the care and bedside manner. It seemed like hearding cattle to get us in and out.
 
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