I lost my GI bill and here's how..

H

HowWeThankOurServiceWomen

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Registered Member
I'm going to start at the very beginning. When I was 16 years old I was in a very abusive relationship. After the relationship, only a few times, I cut myself, and was very traumatized. I had nightmares and flashbacks consistently. Over time, these diminished. But I wanted to be strong and do something to overcome it. So I joined the Air Force. I didn't report my depression because I didn't feel I was depressed. I thought it was a phase I could overcome.
Fast forward 6 months in the Air Force, and my command has me go to mental health after the loss of a teacher. When I go to mental health I explain that I am struggling slightly, but because of the relationship I ent through as a teenager. I am put on anti depressant meds, and for another 6 months, I am doing very well in the Air Force. I am a very successful airmen. After that 6 months, the bipolar symptoms begin to emerge. I experience severe mood swings and mania. I get in such a depressed state I don't shower, I don't clean my room, I get in a relationship during this time. And I'm not sure if it was the man I was with or the symptoms, but he, too, exhibits behaviors similar to my last abusive relationship.
I break up with him, and I go over the edge. I decide that night I'm going to kill myself.
But- I call for help instead. This is my first hospitalization.

The next three months are a series of struggling with severe symptoms of mania and depression. I'm put on all sorts of meds- a lot of sleeping pills and they really affect my sleep state. I had constantly overslept. I was getting in so much trouble at work for this. The more I got in trouble, the worse I got. I failed 4 room inspections- but 3 of these room inspections were done while I was in the hospital. I was hospitalized for 6 weeks and came straight back to a PT test which I predictably failed. All the stressors from my unsupportive command at work really affected my work production. I failed my CDC's and was pulled from pt care.

My supervisor wrote me an EPR because of all of this and rated me at 1.


Fast forward another 4 months and my MEB has come to a close. The VA rated me at 70% service connected... And the Air Force doesn't rate me simply stating my condition existed prior to service and that my recommended discharge was 'under other than honorable conditions'...

And it hurts. A lot. I've done so much and tried so hard. I've went through so much just like anyone else in the military. And instead of standing behind me, my command turns their back on me. My commander even told me once that his hands were tied and the reason all this disciplinary action came was because of military rules and I wasn't a bad airman.. So why did all this happen to me? Why am I being punished for seeking help? After getting the help I've needed I have become so much better and people notice. But I don't think the incident that happened when I was a child was a precursor of mental illness.. It was traumatic. And the symptoms that occurred while I was in the Air Force was nothing like I had experienced as a teenager.. Or ever.

My question was I can't change the AF's ratings. But after I'm out, how good of a chance do I have of upgrading my discharge? There are people who have had the same discharge as me that have done so much worse. I'm just at a loss and so frustrated.
 
I'm glad you are getting the help you need but why do you feel entitled to any VA or AF money for something that happened before you came into service. If you were ill before you came in why is it the AF responsibility to fix you. If you would of disclosed and been honest when you were trying to get in there is no way they would of let you enlist and now you want to be spoon fed. not how it works. Please keep getting help and take good care of your self.
 
Its important for them to note the difference between the state of the condition before entrance and what the military actually causes. The VA rating at 70% suggests there is at least some evidence that the military was an factor, even if the story as presented doesn't really seem to spell it out.

Each branch has a discharge review board where you can argue that the method they choose to discharge with was inappropriate. It sounds like they choose a misconduct discharge, for what was basically a failure to adapt or a non-service connected disability. Getting it upgraded to general under honorable should be pretty easy, however this likely won't qualify you for the GI Bill. Possible for an honorable, but that can be hard with those routes. The VA service connecting you I feel is evidence the MEB came to the wrong conclusion. The same standard for EPTS exists between the VA and DoD as far as I know. I think getting them to acknowledge their role in it by fighting the EPTS is the route to go so that the discharge would be upgraded to a disability discharge which would qualify for full GI Bill benefits. The likelihood of that being successful is hard to say. I would research the BCMR.

I don't think its fair to say you were punished for seeking help. I think you obviously failed to meet the standards, which happens, its not the same thing as being a bad person. There was an attempt for them to explain it as a MH problem, but it sounds like the docs gave them a negative view of that explanation and so the military refused to acknowledge their role in it.
 
If I was you, take the 70% and run with it. You are shooting your own self in the foot, the more you try and justify things. Be thankful, with the short amount of time in service, and you are receiving a good rating. I recommend to focus on your transition and take advatage of those classes and programs available to you right now. It is not the end of the world without that GI Bill. VA has a vocrehab program, look into it if you want to go back to school. You are way better of than my uncle who served 19 yrs and 10 mos, but only got 30% from VA, no DOD .
 
T-man said:
If I was you, take the 70% and run with it. You are shooting your own self in the foot, the more you try and justify things. Be thankful, with the short amount of time in service, and you are receiving a good rating. I recommend to focus on your transition and take advatage of those classes and programs available to you right now. It is not the end of the world without that GI Bill. VA has a vocrehab program, look into it if you want to go back to school. You are way better of than my uncle who served 19 yrs and 10 mos, but only got 30% from VA, no DOD .
Click to expand...


http://www.benefits.va.gov/vocrehab/eligibility_and_entitlement.asp


"....
Veterans are eligible if they:
  • Have received, or will receive, a discharge that is other than dishonorable
  • Have a service-connected disability rating of at least 10% from VA
  • Apply for VR&E services
Basic period of Eligibility
The basic period of eligibility ends 12 years from the date of notification of one of the following:
  • Date of separation from active military service, or
  • Date the veteran was first notified by VA of a service-connected disability rating...."

All is not lost.

Thank the man upstairs the VA came through!

You will at least be able to get meds and treatment through the VA.

And get a shot at education through the VAs Voc Rehab.

Please become very familiar with VA Voc Rehab. Read up all you can about it.

It can do a lot! But like any big organization, many folks who work inside the org don't always tell you what all it can do.

You are responsible for making sure you become your best advocate.

There is a GREAT e-book out there written by Benjamin Krause - all about the VocRehab.

He's a lawyer now - he was a disabled Vet who used VA Voc Rehab to help him fund his entrire law degree.

He only charges $19.xx for his e-book.

And this e-book is worth it's weight in gold!

Go here to read more about it...

I suspect you will be able to go very far once you become grounded on how to best utilize VocRehab....

http://www.disabledveterans.org/

nwlivewire




nwlivewire
 
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Caution flags here! If the VA finds out you have an UOTHC discharge they will terminate your VA pension.

The UOTHC discharge is probably for Fraudulent Entry, concealment of medical disqualification. They have the option of voiding your service under this authority as well.
 
Ed Mercanti said:
Caution flags here! If the VA finds out you have an UOTHC discharge they will terminate your VA pension.

The UOTHC discharge is probably for Fraudulent Entry, concealment of medical disqualification. They have the option of voiding your service under this authority as well.
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Do you know for a fact you are being discharged for fraudulent Entry or Enlistment?

Do you have a copy of your DD- 214?

What does it say at the bottom?

What enlistment/re-enlistment codes are also on your DD 214?

nwlivewire
 
Ok.. Calling me ungrateful because I'm not happy about the 70% rating is not necessary. What I really want is no rating. I don't want to be bipolar. And I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I'm just insinuating that obviously, I had none of these symptoms before joining the military. Yes- I cut. But after a traumatic event. How do you KNOW you have depression? News flash- you don't. If everyone knew spot on the moment they had depression, things would be a lot less complicated about mental health.

Also. It wasn't a bad conduct discharge. It was a general discharge.. Two different things. ._.

And my behavior in the Air Force wasn't even bad. I didn't party, rack up millions in debt, or smoke a joint and go out for a joyride. I overslept when I was out on, like, 18 different meds that I wasn't even aware would CAUSE that.

I didn't fraudulently enlist. WTF would I enlist thinking I was messed up in the head? I enlisted because I knew I was strong enough to overcome it. And I DID. I was an amazing airman my first year in. Then- the symptoms emerged out of nowhere. Was it linked to the cutting in high school? Maybe. Maybe not.

Trauma affects different people in different ways.
 
Given the VA and DoD are suppose to follow the same standards For deeming a condition EPTS w/o aggravation, something is wrong.

Was the VA rating for the same issues that the PEB found unfitting? I presume you had a PEB that found you unfit? If not, we're you dual processed?

Was your unfitting condition noted on your entrance physical. If not, did the PEB provide clear and unmistakable evidence to overcome the presumption you condition incurred while entitled to basic pay? Did the PEB provide clear and unmistakable evidence that the condition was aggravated by service?

Were you given the option for a formal board?

What was the basis for the discharge not being honorable?

I don't understand why Ed above talks about a VA pension when the VA is giving you disability compensation which is a different animal.

Lots to wonder about if your case was properly adjudicated. Answers to the questions above may lead to better advice.

Mike
 
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/l/aadischarge1.htm

General is the type of discharge, other than honorable is the characterization of your service. A bad conduct is from a court martial and is always other than honorable. The VA will see the uoth on the dd214 and may, but may not decide against compensation

With that discharge they are basically saying by hiding your symptoms present at 16 you put people at risk.

I think it is hard to say cutting yourself is a non-event. I think any reasonable person could see how that is a good indicator of mental health problems, that doesn't take special training.
 
How do we know why the AF gave her the discharge that they did? Seems like some are speculating that is was based on her entry. Maybe, maybe not. It could be the PEB screwed this up like they have in so many other cases. I wonder how she got a VA rating unless she was found unfitting by a PEB. If given a PEB, if dual processed, it was determined her condition led to her issues.

Bottom line: PEBS have continually screwed up EPTS determinations and they continue to ignore law and policies on making such determinations. Given the VA service connected the condition, I suspect this may be what is going on in this case as well.

Mike
 
I recommend that you consult an attorney about the nature of your discharge.

As for your mental health, I hope that your AF experience will not prevent you from getting the help you need with your bipolar disorder. The manic side of bipolar disorder tends to get people into trouble if they don't take an active role in their treatment. Good luck.

Mike
 
My State Surgeon's Office tried that same BS and they tried saying I knew I had crohns... Well... my physical and mental evaluation came back all good and I swore in. Go file for a correction if possible because an OTH is ridiculous. If you finished training... then the Air Force should consider that you finished training and at least give you General Under Honorable Conditions or... Honorable.
 
HowWeThankOurServiceWomen said:
Ok.. Calling me ungrateful because I'm not happy about the 70% rating is not necessary. What I really want is no rating. I don't want to be bipolar. And I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Click to expand...

"Your perception may not be my reality" Aprova Kala.
My intent was to address all issues presented. Preferably to get you out of the situation you find yourself in, esp. with your chain turning their backs on you. Then go through AFBCMR post retirement, seeking for a better chance to upgrade your discharge. While you're at it, utilize Voc rehab in lieu of GI bill. Oh well, as the SMEEs above advice and presented other courses of actions, I can only tag along and pray for the best to work in your favor.

Good luck

T-man
 
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I read your stuff T-man and that's why I reiterated filing for a correction. You lose voc rehab most of the time with an OTH. I processed MANY separations and one where the POS should be in prison... only got probation and TRIED getting benefits. He got compensation but not voc rehab or his GI bill. I even told him he wouldn't get either with his type of separation. A committee may grant her voc rehab, but that is a long shot in appealing the decision.
 
maparker said:
Given the VA and DoD are suppose to follow the same standards For deeming a condition EPTS w/o aggravation, something is wrong.

Was the VA rating for the same issues that the PEB found unfitting? I presume you had a PEB that found you unfit? If not, we're you dual processed?

Was your unfitting condition noted on your entrance physical. If not, did the PEB provide clear and unmistakable evidence to overcome the presumption you condition incurred while entitled to basic pay? Did the PEB provide clear and unmistakable evidence that the condition was aggravated by service?

Were you given the option for a formal board?

What was the basis for the discharge not being honorable?

I don't understand why Ed above talks about a VA pension when the VA is giving you disability compensation which is a different animal.

Lots to wonder about if your case was properly adjudicated. Answers to the questions above may lead to better advice.

Mike
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Title 38 prohibits VA benefits (other than treatment for service connected conditions) for veterans who are dishonorably discharged. VA considers a Bad Conduct Discharge, an UOTHC Discharge, and an Undesirable discharge to be dishonorable. These types of discharges can be appealed to the VA thou. They will then determine whether the individual circumstances of the discharge render it dishonorable for the purpose of Title 38.
 
My understanding is that the VA does an independent review to determine if the member's service qualifies for VA benefits.

The dicotmy is that the member apparently went through a PEB. Something is funky if the condition that went through the PEB resulted in an UOTHC discharge. The UOTHC could be from something different. The OP will have to clarify.

Given The VA apparently service connected the conditioN, coupled with the historical inability of PEBs and review boards to properly adjudicate these types of cases, I suspect that PEB error may be an issue in this case as well. Again, the OP needs to provide deeper details.

An option for her is to appeal to the PEB if she has not separated yet. I would be asking the PEB for the clear and unmistakable evidence they used to overcome the presumption of service connection and service aggravation as PEBs continue to be ignorant of this requirement. Post separation she can also appeal the EPTS determination to the Disability Review Board under 10 USC 1554.

Mike
 
scoutCC said:
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/l/aadischarge1.htm

General is the type of discharge, other than honorable is the characterization of your service. A bad conduct is from a court martial and is always other than honorable. The VA will see the uoth on the dd214 and may, but may not decide against compensation

With that discharge they are basically saying by hiding your symptoms present at 16 you put people at risk.

I think it is hard to say cutting yourself is a non-event. I think any reasonable person could see how that is a good indicator of mental health problems, that doesn't take special training.
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T-man said:
"Your perception may not be my reality" Aprova Kala.
My intent was to address all issues presented. Preferably to get you out of the situation you find yourself in, esp. with your chain turning their backs on you. Then go through AFBCMR post retirement, seeking for a better chance to upgrade your discharge. While you're at it, utilize Voc rehab in lieu of GI bill. Oh well, as the SMEEs above advice and presented other courses of actions, I can only tag along and pray for the best to work in your favor.

Good luck

T-man
Click to expand...


Maparker raises many important key questions for the original poster of this thread. I hope the original poster will respond with answers so maparker (and others) can provide assistance with her situation.

Without clarification from the poster, there's not a lot to be rendered here other than framing solutions or courses of actions through the hopeful lens of all of us "shooting in the dark".

About three years ago, I met an AF retiree at a social function. The retiree did their 20 full AD years - and had a couple of kids during that time of service.

During the course of our conversation, the retiree mentioned to me that one of his kids (now a young adult) had been recently discharged from the AF under some type of Fraudulent Entry Discharge.

He explained that when his child was growing up, his kid was diagnosed and periodically medically treated for asthma by the military Doctors on the various AF posts he had been stationed at.

When his kid got old enough and graduated from high school, the kid joined the AF (like Father - like Son).

Mid-way through AF basic training, his kid had to go to hospital for asthma-like symptoms.

Somehow, the Doctors confronted this Airman Recruit with information that they found in his pre-military medical records that he had already been diagnosed with asthma in his youth - and what was he doing in uniform?

His Dad told me that his Son never put this information down on his MEPS physical paperwork (no paper trail). But his Dad told me the Doctors found this all out (asthma) because he had had his Son treated under Tricare at military bases (paper trail).

Apparently, when the military hospital took this Airman Recruit in for treatment, all his previous medical information popped up from his youth. (I do not know the veracity of this remark - that's just what the Dad stated to me).

So the Dad said the AF booted his kid out of Basic Training and gave his kid a Fraudulent Entry discharge. Dad stated to me his kid got zero benefits from military and zero from the VA. Zip. Zero. Nada. And a lousy discharge to boot.

I'm just passing along this Dad's story as I was surprised to hear this retiree claim that it was through Tricare medical records his Son's juvenile and pre-military diagnosis/treatment of asthma was discovered.

nwlivewire
 
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Well that kid would be uncharacterized by law. Even for fraudulent entry being a trainee separation. If the OP completed training, then the burden rests on the unit to show outside of the withholding, whether deliberately or not, that the SM'S record of service was less than satisfactory. If they cant, if anything she should have a general, under honorable, which would allow her to receive voc rehab without a need to appeal based on service record.
 
Being officially diagnosed and treated with an objective condition is one thing. Not reporting a subjective condition you have never been diagnosed with, nor are qualified to self diagnose, is another. I did not see anything from the OP that she was ever diagnosed or treated for any MH condition.

Mike
 
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