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Read This if You Have Been Denied LOD Initiation or Had NGB Find Your Condition NILOD!
- Thread starter nomad_romad
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Good information here, thank you. My LOD is sitting with AFRC and has been since April. Does anyone know how long it would take to get through the MEB portion if it comes back unfit? Three months at AFRC seems like a long time for just the LOD really.
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The LOD and MEB are 2 separate things. With the LOD, you will either receive a In the Line of Duty (ILOD) or Not in the Line of Duty (NILOD) determination. The LOD in an of itself is not a determination of fitness. The resulting determination of the LOD, ILOD OR NILOD, can be a triggering event for your MDG/MTF to refer you to the Initial Review-In-Lieu-Of (IRILO). The IRILO is an initial review of medical records in lieu of a full medical examination. This referral is made if you have condition(s) that may render you unfit for continued military service, or you are found to be unable to deploy. If you have duty limiting condition which has resulted or will result in a mobility restriction of 365 days or longer will also trigger an IRILO.
The IRILO will either recommend a MEB or Return to Duty. If a MEB is recommended, you will only be recommended based on the condition that is unfitting although your entire medical record/conditions will be taken into consideration. This is where the LOD will come into play. Let's say that your referral to the MEB is based on an unfitting ILOD condition. The MEB will confirm or deny that the condition is unfitting. If unfit, the MEB will recommend full IDES processing. During the IDES processing you would be assigned a PEBLO. You would then go through the Informal Physical Evaluation Board (IPEB). The IPEB in conjunction with the VA would assign your DOD disability rating recommendation. If the IPEB determination is favorable, you can accept the result. If the IPEB findings are not favorable, you can challenge the results in the Formal Physical Evaluation Board (FPEB). Pending the results of the FPEB, you can appeal those results. If you lose the appeal, then you next available option for recourse is the AF BCMR.
If the LOD was a NILOD unfitting condition. The MEB would determine if the condition is fit or unfit. If found unfit, the MEB would recommend DES processing. With a NILOD condition though, you would be processed in the Non-Duty Related DES (NDDES). The NDDES will only render a determination of fitness. Being found unfit in the NDDES would mean separation without DOD Disability Rating. If you are eligible for retirement, then you would be offered the option to retire.
This is a very generic and condensed overview of the LOD/MEB/DES process. I would encourage you to take a look at DAFMAN 48-108. Without an ILOD LOD determination, you more than likely will not walk away with a DOD Disability rating. Right now the LOD process is under extreme scrutiny. My SAF IG case manager has told me that they have stood up several teams over issues of corruption that I and many others have brought to light through whistleblower complaints. The standing up of teams has come at the direction of Sec. Kendall.
With all that said, I have had LOD determinations come back in under 6 months, and I have had other LOD's take nearly a year for processing. Any published timelines do not matter as the AF doesn't follow them, and nobody holds them accountable if they don't. You are at the mercy of the process, and it will be imposed on you. Be prepared for the decision makers to violate law and regulation. They will be allowed to do this to you, and the decisions are just accepted as being correct/lawful. These decisions will be immediate, and the effects to you will be immediate. Trying to fight against these unjust decisions will take literal years in the IG system. The wrongdoers will be afforded rights and protections that you did not receive when they made decisions/determinations that affect your livelihood. The IG system works for the DOD and the AF. Their interests lay with they DOD/AF. So far, they have twisted everything in a preponderance of evidence shell game to NOT SUBSTANTIATE evidence backed violations of federal law. I have been in this process for over 4 years now. Their tactics are to wear you down and hope you go away.
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Sir,
Thank you for the explanation and the timeline. I really had no idea how this was going to work out. With that being said, after having over 20 years and meeting my retirement age for military pay, I think I'm just going to hit the button for retirement. There is zero incentive for me to carry through with this possible MEB.
Thanks again,
Chiefs Fan
Thank you for the explanation and the timeline. I really had no idea how this was going to work out. With that being said, after having over 20 years and meeting my retirement age for military pay, I think I'm just going to hit the button for retirement. There is zero incentive for me to carry through with this possible MEB.
Thanks again,
Chiefs Fan
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Definitely, if you are at retirement age for your pension then there is little to gain from the MEB. If you haven't already, you should file your VA claim. If you have a retirement date, you can submit a BDD VA claim. The idea behind the BDD is that you will know your VA percentage/compensation at retirement. Also you should schedule a VA Gulf War Registry Exam if you have been deployed. This is different than the Burn Pit Registry. You actually go in for a full physical to include chest x-ray, blood work, and 1 on 1 physician meeting. Although this is not a compensation exam, it is added to your VA record and can be used to verify/validate VA claims. The exam covers all toxic exposure. When I had mine done they asked a ton of questions as to what I was exposed to, ie nerve agents, depleted uranium, toxic smoke, and so on. If you don't know if you were or were not exposed to the things they ask, the answer is "unknown." I instinctively gave this answer, and the doc seeing me told me this is correct bc we have no idea what was in the air and dust we were breathing. To schedule this exam, you need to contact your local VA hospital and schedule with the VA Environmental Health Coordinator.
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While deployed in 2014 with the Alabama Army National Guard I injured my back and initiated an LOD. When I finally came off orders I received a letter from the state administratively closing my LOD due to my back injury being, “MINOR INJURY WILL NOT CAUSE A LONG TERM EFFECT NOR WILL REQUIRE ADDITIONAL MEDICAL TREATMENT.” I still have hard copies of the memo closing my LOD as well as the flight doc slip for being seen in country.
Since then I have been rated at 100% P&T from the VA with a combined rating of 120% solely from that back injury.
Since then I have been rated at 100% P&T from the VA with a combined rating of 120% solely from that back injury.
@nomad_romad
Well my formal PEB board was today as I suspected I was found unfit and recommended separation. I do have 25yrs in and I will get NG retirement at 58. I do have one last appeal which I am probably going to try. Because why not. What I did learn from my lawyer is that my Chrons my actually approved as LOD all the way till it got to NGB and they denied it. Then reviewed it a year later with Jag. Way to support the soldiers NGB. Cause it hurts them so much to provide a little support. Guess I will try and put togther some new evidence. My lawyer thinks o should put some more ptsd stuff in since I have an approved LOD for that.
Well my formal PEB board was today as I suspected I was found unfit and recommended separation. I do have 25yrs in and I will get NG retirement at 58. I do have one last appeal which I am probably going to try. Because why not. What I did learn from my lawyer is that my Chrons my actually approved as LOD all the way till it got to NGB and they denied it. Then reviewed it a year later with Jag. Way to support the soldiers NGB. Cause it hurts them so much to provide a little support. Guess I will try and put togther some new evidence. My lawyer thinks o should put some more ptsd stuff in since I have an approved LOD for that.
Man, reading all of this doesn't give me hope at all! I definitely appreciate all of the stories and the candor here. This information obviously helps and will help lots of veterans.
So my story (I'll try to be short)- 48 years of age, 29 years all Louisiana Air Guard, prior 'E' O-5, multiple deployments including the sandboxes, DD-214s (about 12 of them), medals and ribbons awarded for the AOR including Air Medals for combat flights, dual-status technician, 100% P&T w/VA including 50% for "other stressor related disorders" and other physical ailments, medical retirement process officially initiated with NGB 2 Jan 2024. along with my packet, I provided my VA explanation of benefits so the reviewers could easily read how the VA decided my disabilities. Commander wrote Impact Statement (1185) 28 Sep 2023 to not retain. Director of Psychological Health did the mental health NARSUM 8 Nov 2023. He marked it "Not in the line of duty not due to member's misconduct". When I asked about that, he said it didn't matter. I had a feeling then that it did, but I went with it. I'm getting a feeling that I should've fought that more then...
Since then, I've been seen by VA and non-VA psychiatrists, been prescribed mental health meds by both (and pain meds by the VA docs) and been through physical therapy sessions.
I received a "return without action" on 11 Mar 2024 asking to provide paperwork (I provided them hundreds of pages relevant to what they wanted) and haven't heard anything since. I'll admit that reading these comments have dampened my somewhat 'upbeat' feeling that I would walk away with a DoD medical retirement of at least 50% by July of 2025 and then work on my federal disability retirement being that my federal job is tied to my Guard commitment. My target date to have that completed was before I turned 50 since after 50, the federal disability retirement (FDR) would only pay about half of what I would receive if I was to get the FDR before 50.
Now, I don't know what to think. I feel like I'm trapped here until indefinitely. All I can do is wait for the NGB process to be done. Medical says the Prior Service Connection (PSC) is what I need in order to go forward to big AF for the DES process. Obviously, I will select LDES if given the option since I have a 100% VA rating.
Thank you for your service.
So my story (I'll try to be short)- 48 years of age, 29 years all Louisiana Air Guard, prior 'E' O-5, multiple deployments including the sandboxes, DD-214s (about 12 of them), medals and ribbons awarded for the AOR including Air Medals for combat flights, dual-status technician, 100% P&T w/VA including 50% for "other stressor related disorders" and other physical ailments, medical retirement process officially initiated with NGB 2 Jan 2024. along with my packet, I provided my VA explanation of benefits so the reviewers could easily read how the VA decided my disabilities. Commander wrote Impact Statement (1185) 28 Sep 2023 to not retain. Director of Psychological Health did the mental health NARSUM 8 Nov 2023. He marked it "Not in the line of duty not due to member's misconduct". When I asked about that, he said it didn't matter. I had a feeling then that it did, but I went with it. I'm getting a feeling that I should've fought that more then...
Since then, I've been seen by VA and non-VA psychiatrists, been prescribed mental health meds by both (and pain meds by the VA docs) and been through physical therapy sessions.
I received a "return without action" on 11 Mar 2024 asking to provide paperwork (I provided them hundreds of pages relevant to what they wanted) and haven't heard anything since. I'll admit that reading these comments have dampened my somewhat 'upbeat' feeling that I would walk away with a DoD medical retirement of at least 50% by July of 2025 and then work on my federal disability retirement being that my federal job is tied to my Guard commitment. My target date to have that completed was before I turned 50 since after 50, the federal disability retirement (FDR) would only pay about half of what I would receive if I was to get the FDR before 50.
Now, I don't know what to think. I feel like I'm trapped here until indefinitely. All I can do is wait for the NGB process to be done. Medical says the Prior Service Connection (PSC) is what I need in order to go forward to big AF for the DES process. Obviously, I will select LDES if given the option since I have a 100% VA rating.
Thank you for your service.
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One comment. Don't choose LDES. It paints you into a corner where if anything is screwed up you have limited options to remedy it. Every time choose IDES. It has more protections and is better. Simply choose IDES and in the comments of the application for VA claims state that you want unfitting conditions rated for DOD purposes only. The one question I would want clarification on is what conditions to list. I assume you would only list conditions that were unfitting and not bother on listing all of them since you only need the rating for DOD purposes. That will allow you to have the more beneficial system and protect your VA ratings. If you have any questions about this make sure to search this forum on this topic.
So you say don't choose LDES, but the retired O5 Medic who also now trains MSCs (and one of the folks who's advice I followed that got me 100% P&T) tells me to file LDES (I also sent him my VA explanation of benefits,the CIS, and the form 4 I attached here). I've been dealing with him for 5 years and I wouldn't think he would do me dirty...
And you're right- I would only want the conditions listed to be deemed unwittingly (especially since none of them are VA rated anyways). Doc told me that if I select IDES, I open ALL of my conditions up to be re-rated amd we know the VA looks for ANYTHING to take away our 100.
And I mean absolutely no offense as I appreciate your response and knowledge.
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Your retired O5 Medic isn't trying to deceive you. 99% of the people that deal with this have no idea that you can choose IDES and not have your conditions reviewed again for VA purposes. That has changed only recently. Search this forum and you can see others that have done it already.
Rog, and copy all. I was just curious as to why. I have read what you stated and have been splitting hairs with this.
Dont forget to add to the retired O5 Medic the fact that he trains Medical Service Providers, the ones that evaluate our claims in the MEB/PEB phase... lol!
Again, thank you for your insight...
Can u join you on this I have been denied several LODS even being hospitalized.Join us and file the reprisal complaint. Were you given the "clear and unmistakable evidence" used by NGB to reach their determination? Was your LOD approved as ILOD at a lower level, and then overruled by NGB? What is the name of the Medical Reviewer on your LOD that recommended NILOD? Who was your appellate authority? What reason did the appellate authority put in the appeal denial memo?
Sorry for all the questions, I am just trying to see if your case is like all the others I have seen. I have been battling IBS-C since returning from Iraq in 06 also. Have you started your VA claim yet? Luckily, the VA did service connect my IBS. Have you joined the Burn Pit Registry, and have you scheduled yourself for a Gulf War Registry Exam? If not I highly recommend that you do so.
Airborne Hazards and Open Burn Pit Registry
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Hello brother. I haven't even made it out of the NGB part of the house yet. My paperwork has been there since January of this year (2024) and I see on my IMR "AAC 31/DAV 41" and "AAC 37/DAV 42" but I don't know what that specifically means. All I know is one means it's temporary and the other means "we're gonna send you to get MEB'd"
I plan on calling Medical this week and ask them if they've heard anything. The last they they told me in May was that NGB was backed up with these types of cases and it could be 5-6 months before mine was completed.
So short answer, I'm not there yet, brother. I'm sorry. I wish I was though!
Thanks for the update! Good luck sounds like I’ll be right behind you with the same issue.
Same to you, bro. Of course, I will advise of what happens next for me...
I got my PSC determination letter back dated 2 December 2024 and it says "PSC not applicable." also recommends me for "further processing through the Physical Evaluation Board via the Non-Duty Disability Evaluation System." Of course, Col Lisa Weeks, MD signed it. She sites things that are just simply not true in the memo. For example, she states that I was deployed four times in my AFSC (MOS for you Army brains) since 1996. I joined the Air Guard in 1995 as an E1 and didn't commission until 2008. She states that my "illnesses started in 2001 (no orders were reviewed before 2011)", so she's outright admitting that she didn't look at my orders of DD-214s from 2001 or 2005. To be honest, I don't think she looked at my orders or DD-214s from 2019 or 2021 for that matter...
I spoke to a JAG with the Office of Disabilities Council and he stated that he has great success with getting her findings overturned, so that makes me feel better. He told me to wait for the "Informal Physical Evaluation Board (IPEB) for a Fitness For Duty (FFD) evaluation". I just feel like an entire year was wasted on her screw-ups...
I spoke to a JAG with the Office of Disabilities Council and he stated that he has great success with getting her findings overturned, so that makes me feel better. He told me to wait for the "Informal Physical Evaluation Board (IPEB) for a Fitness For Duty (FFD) evaluation". I just feel like an entire year was wasted on her screw-ups...
Col Lisa Weeks...
I also received a reversal of my wing recommended LOD as Prior Service Condition (PSC) from that outstanding officer!
My MDG carelessly or purposely informed me that my only recourse was to appeal to the AFBCMR so I did and was determined ILOD. I also have a 70 percent rating from the VA for the same condition as the LOD.
With turnover since my wing/cc recommended LOD, the new leadership treats me like I am trying to get away with something. I could write a novel, but won't here.
The most egregious is that since I have well over 20 years, 4 from T-10, ~3600 points they tried to administratively put me into reserve awaiting retirement due to non-retention letter and in midst of MED/DES processing after the approved SECAF ILOD determination.
I also received a reversal of my wing recommended LOD as Prior Service Condition (PSC) from that outstanding officer!
My MDG carelessly or purposely informed me that my only recourse was to appeal to the AFBCMR so I did and was determined ILOD. I also have a 70 percent rating from the VA for the same condition as the LOD.
With turnover since my wing/cc recommended LOD, the new leadership treats me like I am trying to get away with something. I could write a novel, but won't here.
The most egregious is that since I have well over 20 years, 4 from T-10, ~3600 points they tried to administratively put me into reserve awaiting retirement due to non-retention letter and in midst of MED/DES processing after the approved SECAF ILOD determination.