You Have to Make Sure Your 1405 Time Gets Added! Pirates!

Shanecameback

Shanecameback

PEB Forum Regular Member
PEB Forum Veteran
Registered Member
Per MyArmyBenefits.us.army.mil

The Department of Defense (DoD) compensates Soldiers who are retired for physical disability (Title 10, USC, Chapter 61). The Secretary of the Army (SA) may retire a Soldier of the Regular component who is found physically unfit to perform his or her duties due to a disability determined by the Army to be in the line of duty. To qualify for disability retirement, the Soldier must have completed at least 20 years of service creditable under Section 1208, Title 10, United States Code (10 USC 1208) or hold a combined disability rating of 30 percent or more for the disabilities determined to be unfitting for military duty.
The 20-year threshold of 10 USC 1208 includes Reserve "equivalent duty service" (the product of the Soldier's membership and Inactive Duty Training (IDT) points divided by 360). This service is applicable to Regulars with former Reserve Service.

7200 points is a 20 year retirement. Or, add your 1405 time after 20 years of AD and retire with a year or two extra - or again, chapter 61 members always get 1405 time if it applies. 61's get credit for all their service. Or, like in my case- chapter 61, 19yr, 2mos. I have 460 points in 1405 time. Puts me over 20 years, and allows me to get CRDP. I want everybody to know that I didn't ask for a 61. I was told and it was rolling. I've been pissed about it since I got the referral from state in September 2012.

BUT, pissed or not, I gotta deal with it, right? OK, so how do I take back my career? It's my career, not theirs!! Read everything, listen to everything, research, scratch my ass...try to put it back on my own plate. I was so elated when I found out about CRDP and that I qualified for it as of 28 June 2013. 20 years confirmed with 1405, verified by the AGR Office. Good to go?

This ain't no discussion anymore, Bob. The PEB flew their Jolly Roger this morning when I went to meet with my PEBLO.
I provided all of everything I was supposed to, including my latest NGB23. Hmm. what happened? The PEB and my PEBLO didn't know how or didn't know they were supposed to add my 1405 time, the bastards. really. I have 19 years, 2 months of active duty and 8 years of MDay time. Neither added my MDay time!!! I was offered $90k severance.
I was mad, hot, shaking, felt the red, cottonmouth. Peblo ran out and got his supervisor. They came in and tried to explain to me that there's nothing they can do, the 1405 doesn't count in a chapter 61...I argued very lightly and professionally, told the lady that I respectfully disagreed. My Peblo told me where the lawyers were and off I went. This old soldier almost came out of his glass case.
WOW, right? No. They were not right. I was. Lawyer said I was right, Retirement Services said I was right, even this little bitty E4 at finance said I was right. Went to the library, printed all my stuff they asked for and the DA1506 will be done in the morning and the 199 will go back to the PEBLO and PEB to get fixed - it's kinda like getting a 2-week AD extension. DA 1506...
DA 1506... KEEP THAT FORM IN MIND. MAKE SURE YOUR NARSUM PACKET GOING TO THE PEB INCLUDES THIS COMPLETED FORM IF YOU ARE AGR!!! MDays need to do it too. can't hurt. This is about that green leafy stuff you keep in your wallet...KEEP A COPY.

$800/mo ain't the freedom I had in mind, brother. What does a man do with $800/month? He gets a job. Whatever he can find that he can do, he gets SSD (I applied, was denied, got a lawyer), whatever he can. They even had me as single, didn't give me credit for wife or son, and damn, my son is hard to keep fed.

SIDEBAR: 20% DOD / 50% VA (Neck and lower back - ROM not too bad, just a lot of pain) and some small stuff. I consider it a fair rating. However, my kidney stones got zero. I read on the 199 that if the DR gives a special diet and meds, that zero can go up to a 30%, so it'll eventually get increased when I do the final rating thing...

OK, last bit. If the PEBLO -"AND"- his supervisor didn't know that the 1405 time is supposed to be added in a 61, how many soldiers have been literally violated and didn't know it? I'm embarrassed and ashamed of what all went down today. I was barely contained. Tons of service members have combination service.
I don't think I can walk away from it.
Americans, good people, soldiers injured protecting all our back yards. Don't they deserve a whistle?
I'm still pissed, but better now I've vented some...Pirate-assed PEB and PEBLO.
- p -
 
Shanecameback said:
Per MyArmyBenefits.us.army.mil

The Department of Defense (DoD) compensates Soldiers who are retired for physical disability (Title 10, USC, Chapter 61). The Secretary of the Army (SA) may retire a Soldier of the Regular component who is found physically unfit to perform his or her duties due to a disability determined by the Army to be in the line of duty. To qualify for disability retirement, the Soldier must have completed at least 20 years of service creditable under Section 1208, Title 10, United States Code (10 USC 1208) or hold a combined disability rating of 30 percent or more for the disabilities determined to be unfitting for military duty.
The 20-year threshold of 10 USC 1208 includes Reserve "equivalent duty service" (the product of the Soldier's membership and Inactive Duty Training (IDT) points divided by 360). This service is applicable to Regulars with former Reserve Service.

7200 points is a 20 year retirement. Or, add your 1405 time after 20 years of AD and retire with a year or two extra - or again, chapter 61 members always get 1405 time if it applies. 61's get credit for all their service. Or, like in my case- chapter 61, 19yr, 2mos. I have 460 points in 1405 time. Puts me over 20 years, and allows me to get CRDP. I want everybody to know that I didn't ask for a 61. I was told and it was rolling. I've been pissed about it since I got the referral from state in September 2012.

BUT, pissed or not, I gotta deal with it, right? OK, so how do I take back my career? It's my career, not theirs!! Read everything, listen to everything, research, scratch my ass...try to put it back on my own plate. I was so elated when I found out about CRDP and that I qualified for it as of 28 June 2013. 20 years confirmed with 1405, verified by the AGR Office. Good to go?

This ain't no discussion anymore, Bob. The PEB flew their Jolly Roger this morning when I went to meet with my PEBLO.
I provided all of everything I was supposed to, including my latest NGB23. Hmm. what happened? The PEB and my PEBLO didn't know how or didn't know they were supposed to add my 1405 time, the bastards. really. I have 19 years, 2 months of active duty and 8 years of MDay time. Neither added my MDay time!!! I was offered $90k severance.
I was mad, hot, shaking, felt the red, cottonmouth. Peblo ran out and got his supervisor. They came in and tried to explain to me that there's nothing they can do, the 1405 doesn't count in a chapter 61...I argued very lightly and professionally, told the lady that I respectfully disagreed. My Peblo told me where the lawyers were and off I went. This old soldier almost came out of his glass case.
WOW, right? No. They were not right. I was. Lawyer said I was right, Retirement Services said I was right, even this little bitty E4 at finance said I was right. Went to the library, printed all my stuff they asked for and the DA1506 will be done in the morning and the 199 will go back to the PEBLO and PEB to get fixed - it's kinda like getting a 2-week AD extension. DA 1506...
DA 1506... KEEP THAT FORM IN MIND. MAKE SURE YOUR NARSUM PACKET GOING TO THE PEB INCLUDES THIS COMPLETED FORM IF YOU ARE AGR!!! MDays need to do it too. can't hurt. This is about that green leafy stuff you keep in your wallet...KEEP A COPY.

$800/mo ain't the freedom I had in mind, brother. What does a man do with $800/month? He gets a job. Whatever he can find that he can do, he gets SSD (I applied, was denied, got a lawyer), whatever he can. They even had me as single, didn't give me credit for wife or son, and damn, my son is hard to keep fed.

SIDEBAR: 20% DOD / 50% VA (Neck and lower back - ROM not too bad, just a lot of pain) and some small stuff. I consider it a fair rating. However, my kidney stones got zero. I read on the 199 that if the DR gives a special diet and meds, that zero can go up to a 30%, so it'll eventually get increased when I do the final rating thing...

OK, last bit. If the PEBLO -"AND"- his supervisor didn't know that the 1405 time is supposed to be added in a 61, how many soldiers have been literally violated and didn't know it? I'm embarrassed and ashamed of what all went down today. I was barely contained. Tons of service members have combination service.
I don't think I can walk away from it.
Americans, good people, soldiers injured protecting all our back yards. Don't they deserve a whistle?
I'm still pissed, but better now I've vented some...Pirate-assed PEB and PEBLO.
- p -
Click to expand...


Thank-you very much for sharing this VITAL bit of information.

The DoD has countless SMs who have NG/Reserve time under their belts AND AD time, too.

Your info is very meaningful to all SMs who are undergoing Chapter 61 that fall into these categories.

Again, thank-you for sharing your experience. This gives many the details they need to move forward with their full and fair due.

V/R,
nwlivewire
 
Did the PEB find your kidney stones unfitting? Do you take medicine for them?

Mike
 
Not until this previous week, Mike. I had a hard time back in the spring, was given pain meds by the PA and sent on my way. That was in an ER in North Carolina and I was on my way back to Tennessee. There is no way they would have found them unfitting as everything subsided. I reported them to the MEB, provided the CT Scan and all that and the MEB doc reported them as resolved. I think I can get the zero upped to 30% since the diet and meds are now prescribed, but I don't know if I can get the diagnosis listed as unfit at this point to elevate the DoD 20%. I don't know how I would do it.

Right now, I'm fighting my 199. My 1405 time wasn't added as above. Also, as I just realized about an hour ago, the Title 10/1208 computation of time was quoted on the 199, but not all of it. In reading the entire law and chasing down the subs, I clearly qualify for Med Retirement. My state AGR office told me this morning that I may have to go after COAD to get my retirement. More later, I have to make an appointment, a briefing and go see my JAG lawyer. He is all over this, and he agrees with me. Thanks, Mike. and thanks to Cornell.Edu for making laws easy to confront.

-Shane
 
Shane
I have been flowing you for the last culpa weeks. Looks like you are going to have to take off the gloves and go bare knuckle and fight for what you deserve . I have read your post several times trying to figure out what 1405 time is. I know how to read a RPAM.
 
I'll have to PM you later. It is really easy. Right now, I'll just say that it is national guard points that are added point-for-day to your retirement. You can't use them to make a 20 year retirement unless you are being medically retired and they only count in a regular retirement after the 20 years of AD has been confirmed. Get your NGB-23 out and when I reply later, you'll be able to see how many points you have. If you aren't NG, you won't have the -23. More later.

- p -
 
I have one point to add, when the PEBLO begins the process, they typically do not update your points and or pay grade into your estimated calculations. Look over everything with a fine tooth comb for accuracy.
 
Thanks i have a lot of points and i dont wont to donate them back:)
 
Gf, you're right, mine didn't. Now I'm shoulder to shoulder to shoulderconfirm with two JAG lawyers, 1Lt, a Major, and soon, a Ltc. They're taking off with my case, running. I'm impressed. But then what else could they do when I showed up here with my case complete, evidence, and the law quoted?

- p -
 
I have no faith that my stuff will get done right so can you tell me where you went to get your information. So when it happens to me I will have some firepower.
Thanks B
 
Lots to cover, I'll try to keep it short.
GSFowler, you are exactly right. Your input is excellent.
MAParker, I had the same thought and I would like to find a way to have an internal review of cases initiated. Probably
spitting in the wind, but the least I can do is run it by my JAG lawyer.
P.S. - My case exploded. Peaceful sleep tonight.
EBateman, I told a young soldier on here not so long ago that he might need to go see his post IG, but before he got
there, have evidence of the wrong-doing, and have a copy of the reg to back up his claim. There are unwritten rules
when it comes to challenging any person that can affect your career. 1. Be 100% truthful and be able to show that
you are 100% right - 99% is a good fight, but be prepared to lose. 2. Be able to back up your claim with written
rules, regulations, or law. You will be immediately given the eye-roll if you show up with "I figure, I thought, or don't
ya think" and you will not be taken seriously. What does Warrior have at the end of every post? It's true. Have it
in your heart, your head, and on paper in your hand. 3. Be the one to show the most respect, whether you like that
person or not. Respecting and liking are not the same. 'Nuff said.
Ebateman, for every minute you spend with IG, JAG, or even your unit commander, 1SG or even your squad leader, spend and hour doing research. Administrative battle is the most mind-numbing thing in the world. I would invite you to do some reading. It won't take long, maybe an hour or two - no it's not easy reading. Go to USGPO.gov, top left under the banner are some red letters to click on, screen changes and a search box appears.
Type in- Title 10 USC 1201
(highlight text, right click and copy) -and hit the enter key. Read 1201, back up, paste and change the 1 in 1201 to 1202 and read that. Again for 1203 and on through 1208. Don't be judging early; this is good stuff and will relieve all your fears. You might think, hey? Really? This is Title 10!! Yep. And yep again, national guard is.....Title 32. I think you'll be happy with what you find. Do this first (this is your base of knowledge). Second, (and I'm using my favorite here) go to Cornell.edu.
Look up the same stuff. A lot is abbreviated, references become hyperlinks, but it's not the actual law. It sets your base of knowledge in a concrete foundation that you can understand better and share. As time goes, share the references and knowledge, but don't be someone's lawyer unless you have passed the bar exam. Trust an older guy there...
Do you want to know more, there, Starship Trooper? Try just a search for Title 32... Good Luck in your endeavors.


- p -
 
Very short version, very true:
Retirement Services did an off-the-charts crawdad move. Mr. H. at retirement services decided that he was not going to do the DA Form 1506, put it on my AGR office who didn't want to do it either. One of my best friends ever called SFC M. at our AGR Office and told her that I had been working on my own case for months, just in case, that he believed me, he knew I was right. Bad weather in West Tenn, she took her work for Friday home and all of it was about studying my retirement. Too late, maybe.
I stopped by and saw my JAG lawyer this morning before leaving for home. My case had gone from FT Campbell to FT Gordon, and there was a call in to FT Sam PEB. "Awesome," I said. And they were all on my side so far. Between Campbell and home my phone rang from Campbell. Good news!! Per a LTC at the PEB at FT Sam, the 199 will be immediately redone to reflect your 1405 time. Any problems... and some more stuff will happen... that I can't talk about on here, BUT
MY RETIREMENT WILL HAPPEN JUST LIKE IT IS SUPPOSED TO.

My case is extremely rare. You cannot use 1405 time to make a 20 year retirement unless you are Chapter 61.
I didn't make the 30% DoD cut-off for chapter 61 medical retirement, only 20%
I am medically unfit to continue service
I have less than 20 years of active duty - that's why I was offered severance, but they forgot the rest
I had to fight for my 1405 time (and won(am winning))
19 yrs 2 mos AD
1 yr 3 mos 460 points 1405 time
3 mos leave

Note from knowledge base: If you get retirement, every month counts (not the days, increments of 30 days). 20 years and a month is 20 years and 1/12th.

If any of you reading this ever has anybody tell you that your reserve or national guard time doesn't count, very calmly ask the question, "Have you read Title 10 United States Code 1201 through 1208?" When they give you the eye-roll, just smile. [Input Warrior's Salutation here] I would add that knowledge is more than an equalizer when the person you are talking to refuses to take off their side blinders and learn something new. Knowledge can be and is power.

- p -
 
I have more... I found out today, should have been told yesterday:
My 199 did get immediately redone, was finished yesterday. But now, I can't have it. It is still being reviewed...
at Ft Sam, Ft Gordon, Ft Campbell, and USPDA-Pentagon. Hopefully will have it in hand tomorrow. It reminds me of how many does it take to change a light bulb. The amount of reviewers and time consumption might be my own fault. My lawyer really did tell me that the more folks that know what is going on, the better... So, I wrote a brief and emailed it to my County Representative, my District Representative (Senator), my congressman at D.C. and my Senator at D.C.
Tomorrow, I am going to chase the 199 down. Leaving me in the dark isn't a good thing for them. I want it, I want my retirement, I want to go home. It's almost 1700, haven't heard a word since 0900. Is it so hard to let someone know what's going on?

-Shane P-
 
Shanecameback said:
I have more... I found out today, should have been told yesterday:
My 199 did get immediately redone, was finished yesterday. But now, I can't have it. It is still being reviewed...
at Ft Sam, Ft Gordon, Ft Campbell, and USPDA-Pentagon. Hopefully will have it in hand tomorrow. It reminds me of how many does it take to change a light bulb. The amount of reviewers and time consumption might be my own fault. My lawyer really did tell me that the more folks that know what is going on, the better... So, I wrote a brief and emailed it to my County Representative, my District Representative (Senator), my congressman at D.C. and my Senator at D.C.
Tomorrow, I am going to chase the 199 down. Leaving me in the dark isn't a good thing for them. I want it, I want my retirement, I want to go home. It's almost 1700, haven't heard a word since 0900. Is it so hard to let someone know what's going on?

-Shane P-
Click to expand...

Shane,

I have read your comments word for word. I will be sure to pass these on to others who need them. It is so good you shared your information here. As you know, many Soldiers get screwed everyday, you may have just helped that number decrease by a few more. BAM! GOOD JOB!
 
Shanecameback said:
Very short version, very true:
Retirement Services did an off-the-charts crawdad move. Mr. H. at retirement services decided that he was not going to do the DA Form 1506, put it on my AGR office who didn't want to do it either. One of my best friends ever called SFC M. at our AGR Office and told her that I had been working on my own case for months, just in case, that he believed me, he knew I was right. Bad weather in West Tenn, she took her work for Friday home and all of it was about studying my retirement. Too late, maybe.
I stopped by and saw my JAG lawyer this morning before leaving for home. My case had gone from FT Campbell to FT Gordon, and there was a call in to FT Sam PEB. "Awesome," I said. And they were all on my side so far. Between Campbell and home my phone rang from Campbell. Good news!! Per a LTC at the PEB at FT Sam, the 199 will be immediately redone to reflect your 1405 time. Any problems... and some more stuff will happen... that I can't talk about on here, BUT
MY RETIREMENT WILL HAPPEN JUST LIKE IT IS SUPPOSED TO.

My case is extremely rare. You cannot use 1405 time to make a 20 year retirement unless you are Chapter 61.
I didn't make the 30% DoD cut-off for chapter 61 medical retirement, only 20%
I am medically unfit to continue service
I have less than 20 years of active duty - that's why I was offered severance, but they forgot the rest
I had to fight for my 1405 time (and won(am winning))
19 yrs 2 mos AD
1 yr 3 mos 460 points 1405 time
3 mos leave

Note from knowledge base: If you get retirement, every month counts (not the days, increments of 30 days). 20 years and a month is 20 years and 1/12th.

If any of you reading this ever has anybody tell you that your reserve or national guard time doesn't count, very calmly ask the question, "Have you read Title 10 United States Code 1201 through 1208?" When they give you the eye-roll, just smile. [Input Warrior's Salutation here] I would add that knowledge is more than an equalizer when the person you are talking to refuses to take off their side blinders and learn something new. Knowledge can be and is power.

- p -
Click to expand...


I was wondering -- What makes the Chapter 61 med board different from a regular med-board?

I am assuming the 1405 is the RPAM statement, is that correct?
 
I know of only one medical board...well, for Mday's there's a state board prior to MEB, but it is all tied together.

The laws are very easy to read and understand, but might take a little bit to get used to. Odd to say, but true.

Go to gpo.gov. click on red letters on the left side under the banner, type in search bar: Title 10 usc 1405
and hit enter, top hyperlink...and then 1208. These are often times thought of as being the same. The laws are easily confused. I'd really like it if you'd do me a favor that won't take long, and it's easy. See if you can tell me the difference between 1405 and 1208. You'll see, and be amazed.
Also, please, if you have time, read title 10 usc 1414.

Quick, easy read.
(title 10 USC 1201, 1208, 1405, 12731, 12732, 12733.....Happy reading!!
 
Have a soldier that was medically permanently retired from Active Duty on 9 July 2013. Individual was granted 50% disability from Active Duty and 90% from the VA. SM cannot received both of these payments at the same time so he had to waived the 50% disability. SM qualifies for CRSC and just recently HRC awarded him CRSC at 50% disability. The issue is that they used his active duty time to compute his CRSC which was 9 years, 6 month and 17 days. His section 1405 active duty years is 12 years, 8 months and 28 days. Trying to figure out how we can address HRC so that they should have used the latter of 12 years 8 months and 28 days. Any suggestions? The SM is a National Guard soldier with active duty guard time and title 10 active duty?
 
Shanecameback said:
Very short version, very true:
Retirement Services did an off-the-charts crawdad move. Mr. H. at retirement services decided that he was not going to do the DA Form 1506, put it on my AGR office who didn't want to do it either. One of my best friends ever called SFC M. at our AGR Office and told her that I had been working on my own case for months, just in case, that he believed me, he knew I was right. Bad weather in West Tenn, she took her work for Friday home and all of it was about studying my retirement. Too late, maybe.
I stopped by and saw my JAG lawyer this morning before leaving for home. My case had gone from FT Campbell to FT Gordon, and there was a call in to FT Sam PEB. "Awesome," I said. And they were all on my side so far. Between Campbell and home my phone rang from Campbell. Good news!! Per a LTC at the PEB at FT Sam, the 199 will be immediately redone to reflect your 1405 time. Any problems... and some more stuff will happen... that I can't talk about on here, BUT
MY RETIREMENT WILL HAPPEN JUST LIKE IT IS SUPPOSED TO.

My case is extremely rare. You cannot use 1405 time to make a 20 year retirement unless you are Chapter 61.
I didn't make the 30% DoD cut-off for chapter 61 medical retirement, only 20%
I am medically unfit to continue service
I have less than 20 years of active duty - that's why I was offered severance, but they forgot the rest
I had to fight for my 1405 time (and won(am winning))
19 yrs 2 mos AD
1 yr 3 mos 460 points 1405 time
3 mos leave

Note from knowledge base: If you get retirement, every month counts (not the days, increments of 30 days). 20 years and a month is 20 years and 1/12th.

If any of you reading this ever has anybody tell you that your reserve or national guard time doesn't count, very calmly ask the question, "Have you read Title 10 United States Code 1201 through 1208?" When they give you the eye-roll, just smile. [Input Warrior's Salutation here] I would add that knowledge is more than an equalizer when the person you are talking to refuses to take off their side blinders and learn something new. Knowledge can be and is power.

- p -
Click to expand...
I believe I may qualify for 1405 time. Are you still active in this forum?
 
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