Excellent point maparker.
Hope the female that started this thread comes back with some information to the questions you have raised in your posts.
nwlivewire
I lost my GI bill and here's how..
- Thread starter HowWeThankOurServiceWomen
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Excellent point maparker.
Hope the female that started this thread comes back with some information to the questions you have raised in your posts.
nwlivewire
Yup. I think a lot of her wording expresses it as a non-event and its completely unreasonable to be judged for it. No, I think its reasonable to be judged for it, and if they had known about it, she definitely would have been evaluated for it before being cleared to join. So just discounting it and her unacceptability for service isn't wise. I think she has a very good case for it to be a general under honorable, and I think if she got competent help she'd be evaluated more fairly for disability discharge.
I don't think its blatantly unfair that she was discharged in a way that put her benefits in serious jeopardy. I suspect she got some pretty unfair medical evaluations that led leadership to some wrong conclusions. I think her story needs some serious help to be presented in a way to correct the problems, because her story has some holes in it.
I do think that its rough that when we are at our most vulnerable is when we are least fit for service and also least able to mount a fair defense to attempts to run rough shod over our benefits. This is what makes the MH and TBI discharges turn out so bad. My reading of this seems to suggest it was the MEB that gave them the info that turned it from a disability discharge to a UOTH. A medical doc puts out an opinion that it might have been from before service and they treat it like gospel, which isn't the right standard.
Misconduct, Fraudulent Entry, and court-martials generally do not give uncharacterized separations for people in entry level status.
Ed, thanks for the details. As I understood, the VA makes their own assessment for eligibility. The VA has rated her at 70%. Perhaps this is only a proposed rating and the type of discharge will be addressed post separation.
Her past MH issue do come into play. The issue is if these incidents provide clear and unmistakable evidence that here unfitting condition preexisted service and was not permanently aggravated by service. There is a very high standard to overcome these presumptions. Dollar to bet a doughnut that the PEB failed to provide clear and unmistakable evidence needed to make an EPTS w/o aggravation determination. Again it is very compelling that the VA, following the same presumption standard, stated her condition was service connected. Either the VA is correct or the PEB is correct. Given the fact PEB's historically get this wrong, my money is that the VA got it right.
In terms of the fraudulent enlistment, that centers on if she was ever diagnosed or treated for a MH condition prior to entry. We don't know that and the OP will have to clarify.
Mike
Her past MH issue do come into play. The issue is if these incidents provide clear and unmistakable evidence that here unfitting condition preexisted service and was not permanently aggravated by service. There is a very high standard to overcome these presumptions. Dollar to bet a doughnut that the PEB failed to provide clear and unmistakable evidence needed to make an EPTS w/o aggravation determination. Again it is very compelling that the VA, following the same presumption standard, stated her condition was service connected. Either the VA is correct or the PEB is correct. Given the fact PEB's historically get this wrong, my money is that the VA got it right.
In terms of the fraudulent enlistment, that centers on if she was ever diagnosed or treated for a MH condition prior to entry. We don't know that and the OP will have to clarify.
Mike
Misconduct in IADT is uncharacterized. Fraudulent Entry:
Fraudulent entry is the procurement of an enlistment, re-enlistment, or period of active service
through any deliberate material misrepresentation, omission, or concealment of information
which, if known and considered by the Army at the time of enlistment or re-enlistment, might
have resulted in rejection. A Soldier discharged under the provisions of this chapter will be
furnished a DD Form 256A or assigned a character of service of under other than honorable
conditions. If in entry-level status, service will be described as uncharacterized, as appropriate.
Soldiers separated for fraudulent entry may receive an honorable, general, OTH, or
uncharacterized discharge (if eligible) (see paragraph 7-23, AR 635-200).
VI. Separation Pay. Separation pay is not authorized.
Fraudulent entry is the procurement of an enlistment, re-enlistment, or period of active service
through any deliberate material misrepresentation, omission, or concealment of information
which, if known and considered by the Army at the time of enlistment or re-enlistment, might
have resulted in rejection. A Soldier discharged under the provisions of this chapter will be
furnished a DD Form 256A or assigned a character of service of under other than honorable
conditions. If in entry-level status, service will be described as uncharacterized, as appropriate.
Soldiers separated for fraudulent entry may receive an honorable, general, OTH, or
uncharacterized discharge (if eligible) (see paragraph 7-23, AR 635-200).
VI. Separation Pay. Separation pay is not authorized.
Entry level soldiers RARELY receive a characterization. You about have to commit a serious offense to land in federal prison or... get hurt enough to be disabled.
Mike, you're right. It does sound like a service aggravation which I'm sure wasn't looked at by the PEB. A formal hearing is definitely in order!
I've had a LOT of people ask to get their UOTHC discharge they got while in entry level upgraded while I was on the ABCMR. More than likely I didn't see the ones that were uncharacterized.
I've had a LOT of people ask to get their UOTHC discharge they got while in entry level upgraded while I was on the ABCMR. More than likely I didn't see the ones that were uncharacterized.
Jason Perry
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I am disappointed by several of the comments in this thread.
(We need more info from the OP to get to the bottom of the issues; Know why lots of people get bad outcomes? They get "told" by someone who may have no idea about the facts, issues, or law, and they go away without even trying. It is bad enough when the government does not follow its own rules and screws people. It is also really bad when others weigh in without basis or opinion and give either irrelevant or unwarranted criticism. People can "feel" how they want about the laws and regulations in place. What matters are the actual laws and regulations.
Now, after getting the feedback she did maybe the Original Poster decides not to come back because she already feels crappy, then others piled on.
I won't be putting up with a lot of this type of commentary here).
(We need more info from the OP to get to the bottom of the issues; Know why lots of people get bad outcomes? They get "told" by someone who may have no idea about the facts, issues, or law, and they go away without even trying. It is bad enough when the government does not follow its own rules and screws people. It is also really bad when others weigh in without basis or opinion and give either irrelevant or unwarranted criticism. People can "feel" how they want about the laws and regulations in place. What matters are the actual laws and regulations.
Now, after getting the feedback she did maybe the Original Poster decides not to come back because she already feels crappy, then others piled on.
I won't be putting up with a lot of this type of commentary here).
Very possibly Mike. She was diagnosed as bipolar while on active duty. Unless there is evidence of her receiving that diagnoses prior to enlistment, it would not be EPTS. Situational depression or anxiety would not establish that the bipolar condition preexisted service.