Medical Discharge Upgrade with CRSC

OsaRedLegg

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Hello Everyone,

I am looking for advice concerning a medical separation to a medical retirement. I was discharged medically in 2018 by the MEB/PEB from the Army and I am appealing their rating; I believe it should be upgraded. The Army awarded me a 20% rating while the VA awarded me a 50% rating for the same injury. My lawyers through NVLSP (who gratuitously put together a great packet/case file) believe there is a strong chance that I will have my discharge upgraded. I received severance pay upon discharge; however there is a strong chance that I will qualify for CRSC at the 100% rate. My question is will I have to pay back my severance or will it offset because of CRSC? If it won’t, is there an algorithm on how much I will have to pay back and when I will have to pay it back?

Any help is greatly appreciated! I looked in the threads and didn't see this question but if it exists and I missed it please point me in the right direction.
 
Hello @OsaRedLegg

Reference: DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 4, RECOUPMENT OF SEPARATION PAY

041001. Members Affected
Service members who received separation pay, nondisability severance pay, readjustment pay, or DSP [Disability Severance Pay] under any provision of law based on service in the Armed Forces, or a member awarded disability retirement from the PDBR, as described in paragraph 040602, who subsequently qualify under Titles 10 or 14 of the U.S.C. for retired or retainer pay will have deducted an amount equal to the total amount of separation pay, nondisability severance pay, readjustment pay, or DSP, without regard to any withholding for taxes. The DFAS will make such deductions from each payment of retired or retainer pay until the total amount recouped is equal to the total amount of separation pay, nondisability severance pay, readjustment pay, or DSP. The member may authorize a deduction in an amount greater than that required by law.

040602. Recoupment of DSP
2. The DFAS will first apply the entire amount of any retroactive retired pay and/or Combat-Related Special Compensation (CRSC) entitlement to any required recoupment of disability severance pay without regard to the percentage limitations specified in section 0410. In determining the retroactive entitlement to retired pay, service members must be treated as though they were retired on the original date of separation, without regard to any disability severance payment received or any reduction in the VA disability compensation to recoup previously paid disability severance pay. In order to determine the amount subject to recoupment, as well as any amount payable to a member, the DFAS will determine the amount of retired pay that would have been available had the member originally been retired instead of separated. The total amount to recoup will be the full gross amount of disability severance pay originally paid to the member.

---
Ron

Edited to Add

Comment regarding CRSC: As a disability retiree with less than 20 years active duty, your CRSC will be the lesser of
a. Longevity portion of retired pay--
active duty equivalent years x 2.5% x average high three base pay (2% will be used instead of 2.5% if in Blended Retirement Program)
or
b. The amount associated with the approved CRSC percentage. The amount is found in the VA compensation tables.
 
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Hello Everyone,

I am looking for advice concerning a medical separation to a medical retirement. I was discharged medically in 2018 by the MEB/PEB from the Army and I am appealing their rating; I believe it should be upgraded. The Army awarded me a 20% rating while the VA awarded me a 50% rating for the same injury. My lawyers through NVLSP (who gratuitously put together a great packet/case file) believe there is a strong chance that I will have my discharge upgraded. I received severance pay upon discharge; however there is a strong chance that I will qualify for CRSC at the 100% rate. My question is will I have to pay back my severance or will it offset because of CRSC? If it won’t, is there an algorithm on how much I will have to pay back and when I will have to pay it back?

Any help is greatly appreciated! I looked in the threads and didn't see this question but if it exists and I missed it please point me in the right direction.
Hi, I can share with you my experience so you can be prepared. I served honorably from 1976 to 1993. I was injured in line of duty during physical training. My back started hurting and suddenly one day, my legs gave out.
I sought emergency room treatment where I was also the NCOIC. I had been there three years prior and was commended for all my work done on that prior assignment.

This time however, ran into a witch which was the Chief Nurse Light Colonel. For some reason she didnt see me with great spirit and we always had conflicting issues but I never ever, disrespected anyone.

I was treated and my pain never went away. My journey began to end my career. She would move me around and always set me up for me to fail by moving my peopke around and together with the Medical NCO in charge, he never looked out for me. I suppose was one of those instances, where you know that something does not drive and is best to look for an exit.

I had volunteered for an assignment to Korea to get away from it all, imagine how bad the situation was and how desperate I was.

To make a long story short, but for some reason, I suddenly could not work in deep pain, and they took this as if I was making things up. I had never ever had any health issues at all and everyone knew me as hard working and actually I believe I was always discriminated in the service.

I was sent to all types of clinics to get a consensus from all doctors who knew me well, and my nightmare began as she even thought I was trying to get away from military orders, so everything that was done medically, was with a purpose of trying to charge me for dereliction of duty.

I was humiliated in the process, as I was never given a medical profile, and placed in my own emergency room on third shift while my subordinates replaced me and inspected my work in the mornings. This was done because patients could not understand how was I working, and my condition worsened. As a result, after many visits to all types of clinics, they all put the same diagnosis, Mechanical low back pain, so this intrigued them and so I demanded to get MRIs, x-rays and be sent to Walter reed. I was also placed on physical therapy but they never took me away from working and never relieved me from my official duties as the NCOIC because I never gave them the possibility of making any mistakes of loosing my head to create a disciplinary problem.

MRIs came back showing herniated discs in my spine, but they had thought it would be negative in order to get me military disciplinary action of my doing my work and I assume faking an illness. More tests showed the same problem even in ER the internal medicine doctor showed diagnosis of radiculopathy condition on left leg and arm.

Here is the result to cut my story short>

Walter reed said to stay behind for therapy and that was in reality the documents that should had stopped my orders byt that chief nurse sent me anyway to Korea against doctors orders.

Returned medevac from 2 ID where the trip really worsened my condition.

At Fitzsimons's medical center, the chief nurse was there when I arrived, even though I chose in Korea the return place to be treated.

90 day hospitalization, worked after 30 days at blood bank as part of rehabilitative Therapy, 2 months short of locking in my retirement. Colonel at blood bank wrote letter to keep me there but peb was only 10 %, overlooking cervical spine issues, and nerve problems. No mental health physicals. Told I had ten days to concur or get new medical evidence when I couldn't walk and was hospitalized.

At that time, they would put so much pressure and mistreated you that we chose to sign and fight from outside, as that was the advise from First Sergeant to me.

I was put out with 17 years and 7 months active fedral service without a brake in service.

In 1998, I was given 100 per cent due to unemployability and since then, the severance pay they gave me lying to me it was for service years, they have taking it back ever since. Today there are a couple of payments left. I also have my case with all medical evidence and recertified by VA in 2018 that everything they did was wrong nd all evidence is service connected including my PTSd which at the time it was not even thought about as I did not get a mental health evaluation and I am a former medical NCO.
 
Generally, like Ron said they do recoup the severance pay if you're granted a retroactive retirement. I'm also waiting on post-service appeals and it looks like I'll be granted retroactive retirement as well. I've been looking into this and found this case that was posted by Jason (McCord vs. U.S.). They were suing for several things related to backpay and tricare premiums but in the court's opinion, the judge mentioned that they hoped the DOD would not force repayment of the severance which would create an additional debt on the service member. Jason mentioned it wasn't a binding decision but potentially strong evidence to argue that you shouldn't have to repay severance when granted retroactive retirement.

 
Generally, like Ron said they do recoup the severance pay if you're granted a retroactive retirement. I'm also waiting on post-service appeals and it looks like I'll be granted retroactive retirement as well. I've been looking into this and found this case that was posted by Jason (McCord vs. U.S.). They were suing for several things related to backpay and tricare premiums but in the court's opinion, the judge mentioned that they hoped the DOD would not force repayment of the severance which would create an additional debt on the service member. Jason mentioned it wasn't a binding decision but potentially strong evidence to argue that you shouldn't have to repay severance when granted retroactive retirement.

Hello @robins

It is not a regulation that prescribes the recoupment; it is a law. A regulation can prescribe how it is done.

In my opinion, this is wishful thinking: "...the judge mentioned that they hoped the DOD would not force repayment."

DoD 7000.14-R Financial Management Regulation Volume 7B, Chapter 4 (the pertinent laws are listed at the end of each chapter)

040603. Collection of DSP – Board for Correction of Military Record Cases
The Secretary concerned may change a military record pursuant to the authority at 10 U.S.C. § 1552 in order to award military disability retirement to a member who has previously received DSP. If this occurs, any DSP previously paid to the member must be established as a debt and collected from the member. The DSP amount must first be offset from any military retired pay or CRSC payments due the military retiree as a result of the record correction. If the DSP debt cannot be fully collected from retroactive amounts due, then collection of the remainder of the debt must be made pursuant to the authority under Volume 16.

Ron
 
Ron, I agree that it is a bit of wishful thinking as they are required to recoup and would probably take more judicial opinions to change the law but it was interesting that the judge referred to some regulations around DFAS ability to waive the debts.

Here's the excerpt from the judge regarding the recoupment of severance pay after a retroactive retirement is granted. Again, it doesn't seem binding but seems interesting.

It is therefore unclear how the method of repayment contemplated by § 1174(h)(1) could be effected. But in any event, the issues of whether or how the erroneous severance payment might be recouped are not ripe for review. Although DFAS has stated an intent to establish a debt, the government represents that it has not yet done so. Further, even if it decides to establish such a debt, and to initiate collection proceedings, the Department of Defense possesses the discretion to waive collection of the debt under Financial Management Regulation Vol. 16, Ch. 5, § 040805, whose purpose is “to provide relief as a matter of equity when warranted by the circumstances of the individual case.”4 Of course, it is up to the Department of Defense whether to exercise its discretionary waiver authority in any particular instance. Nonetheless, the standard for doing so at least arguably appears to have been met here. As reflected in the Court’s initial opinion in this case, a disabled veteran, spent several years navigating his way through the confusing bureaucracies at both the Army and the VA and then pursuing judicial review, all in order to obtain the 30% disability rating to which he was entitled. Numerous errors were made at the administrative level along the way. See McCord, 131 Fed. Cl. at 347–49. The veteran obviously believed in good faith that he would improve his lot if he secured a correction of his records to reflect the appropriate disability rating. It was not until he had succeeded in his efforts that he discovered that, as a result of the correction, he had potentially incurred a debt of almost $26,000 and secured only $37.60 in back pay. David Sonenshine, a senior staff attorney at the National Veterans Legal Services Program, observes that “most veterans do not understand the interplay between a military severance payment, medical retirement benefits, and disability compensation from the Department of Veterans Affairs.” Decl. of David Sonenshine ¶ 5, ECF No. 64. Further, he notes that “[t]he interplay is especially confusing” where, as here, “there is an award of retroactive medical retirement to a veteran who years earlier received a severance payment from the military and is currently entitled to monthly disability compensation from the Department of Veterans Affairs.” Id. Indeed, “n [Mr. Sonenshine’s] experience, veterans are not informed about the negative implications of a grant of retroactive medical retirement until after the decision granting this benefit is issued by the BCMR, BCNR, or PDBR.” Id. ¶ 6. Mr. Sonenshine states that he has A member who has received . . . severance pay . . . and who later qualifies for retired or retainer pay under this title or title 14 shall have deducted from each payment of such retired or retainer pay an amount, in such schedule of monthly installments as the Secretary of Defense shall specify, taking into account the financial ability of the member to pay and avoiding the imposition of undue financial hardship on the member and member’s dependents, until the total amount deducted is equal to the total amount of . . . severance pay . . . so paid. 4 Available at https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/current/16/16_04.pdf. 7 “seen many cases . . . in which veterans granted a retroactive military medical retirement are rendered worse off or no better off financially, due to the offset against VA compensation.” Id. In short, in the event that the Department of Defense establishes a debt, it appears to the Court that Mr. McCord will have strong arguments in favor of securing a waiver of that debt. As Mr. Sonenshine aptly observes, “[d]isabled veterans should not be put in a worse financial position when correcting a wrong that was due to no fault of their own.” Id. ¶ 10. The Court would expect that if the issue arises, the Department of Defense will take that principle into consideration when determining whether to grant Mr. McCord a waiver.
 
Hello @robins

Thank you for providing the information above. I once submitted a packet of around 50 applications for Cancellation or Remission of Indebtedness for a group of enlisted soldiers who had received erroneous payments of Foreign Duty Pay. I wrote the cover letter that accompanied the packet. It was approved en masse for the active duty soldiers. This occurred circa 1974.

The info you posted is quite interesting. I hope the veteran succeeds.

Unrelated, but in the same area of Germany for the FDP issue: An newly assigned individual arrived one day in the uniform of an Army enlisted soldier, but he was wearing 2LT bars on the jacket. He did not last long... It was the HQ for a NATO unit having special weapons capability. Although working in finance, I had a TS clearance.
Just a memory forgotten until now.

Ron
 
Hello Everyone,

I am looking for advice concerning a medical separation to a medical retirement. I was discharged medically in 2018 by the MEB/PEB from the Army and I am appealing their rating; I believe it should be upgraded. The Army awarded me a 20% rating while the VA awarded me a 50% rating for the same injury. My lawyers through NVLSP (who gratuitously put together a great packet/case file) believe there is a strong chance that I will have my discharge upgraded. I received severance pay upon discharge; however there is a strong chance that I will qualify for CRSC at the 100% rate. My question is will I have to pay back my severance or will it offset because of CRSC? If it won’t, is there an algorithm on how much I will have to pay back and when I will have to pay it back?

Any help is greatly appreciated! I looked in the threads and didn't see this question but if it exists and I missed it please point me in the right direction.
How did you get in contact with NVLSP. I have been trying to get in contact with them for about 12 years and no one has contacted me.
 
Hello @tayawllms

Re: National Veterans Legal Services Program (NVLSP)--Contact Information

Internet---->LINK NVLSP


Individual Representation
Phone: 202.265.8305
Email:
[email protected]

Volunteer Lawyer Network
Phone: 202.265.8305
Email:
[email protected]
(same as for individual representation)

Mailing address:
National Veterans Legal Services Program
P. O. Box 65762
Washington, DC 20035
Phone: 202.265.8305
Email: [email protected]

========================================

Jason Perry of this board is an attorney and has experience with cases such as what yours might involve.

Ron
 
Generally, like Ron said they do recoup the severance pay if you're granted a retroactive retirement. I'm also waiting on post-service appeals and it looks like I'll be granted retroactive retirement as well. I've been looking into this and found this case that was posted by Jason (McCord vs. U.S.). They were suing for several things related to backpay and tricare premiums but in the court's opinion, the judge mentioned that they hoped the DOD would not force repayment of the severance which would create an additional debt on the service member. Jason mentioned it wasn't a binding decision but potentially strong evidence to argue that you shouldn't have to repay severance when granted retroactive retirement.

How long did it take for restorative retirement
 
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