CRSC/CRDP, the decision between Medical Retirement and a 20 Retirement.

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armyflyer7

armyflyer7

PEB Forum Regular Member
I am medically retired from the Army and was completely frustrated with the process of the MEB and how little information was available to me through the entire process. I am now a CSO for the DAV and want to assist others going through the MEB process to lighten the stress the process creates. If you are in the MEB process and in the position of deciding between a Med Retirement and 20 Year retirement and you're being medically retired because of combat related injuries, I have developed a worksheet that will calculate the what your CRSC entitlements would be compared to your CRDP (To receive CRDP your disability(ies) must exceed 50% from the VA) entitlements. This will help you decide wether to continue on active duty or medically retire. (Usually for individuals over 15 years of service)

I have helped a lot of soldiers and work directly with a PEBLO here and have found that the dollar amount is very similar either way. The major difference being CRSC is tax free. Having numbers does help with the stress of making the decision.

Here is the information that I will need to assist you with your calculations:

1. High three base pay. (last 36 months base pay divided by 36)
2. Medical retirement percentage. (if your are in the process of the MEB, give disability that you are being retied for. I will be able to get a percentage from that)
3. Time in service. (# of years, months and days)
4. Combat related injuries (must link to combat or combat related training) (to get a estimate of percent from VA)
5. Disabilities you plan to claim from the VA (list all disabilities)

I have attached a worksheet to help you with the above figures and information.

Once I have these figures I can give a fairly accurate estimate of both CRSC and CRDP. Both of these are estimates because DFAS does the actual calculation of your high three, but these will be very close.
 

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I just completed my MEB at Fort Knox, the process for me was rather smooth. My Question: I am currently mobilized on COADOS orders (5th Year) I have been on active duty orders of some type since September 2000. I am a reservist, the MEB determined that I have issues that make me non-eligible for retention. Will they medically retire me with medical disability compensation or will they tell me to go to the VA and collect until I can start receiving my pension at age 60 (approx.)???
Additionally I have 27 years of reserve service with the last 10 full time. I have approx. 5100 reserve points.



armyflyer7 said:
I am medically retired from the Army and was completely frustrated with the process of the MEB and how little information was available to me through the entire process. I am now a CSO for the DAV and want to assist others going through the MEB process to lighten the stress the process creates. If you are in the MEB process and in the position of deciding between a Med Retirement and 20 Year retirement and you're being medically retired because of combat related injuries, I have developed a worksheet that will calculate the what your CRSC entitlements would be compared to your CRDP (To receive CRDP your disability(ies) must exceed 50% from the VA) entitlements. This will help you decide wether to continue on active duty or medically retire. (Usually for individuals over 15 years of service)

I have helped a lot of soldiers and work directly with a PEBLO here and have found that the dollar amount is very similar either way. The major difference being CRSC is tax free. Having numbers does help with the stress of making the decision.

Here is the information that I will need to assist you with your calculations:

1. High three base pay. (last 36 months base pay divided by 36)
2. Medical retirement percentage. (if your are in the process of the MEB, give disability that you are being retied for. I will be able to get a percentage from that)
3. Time in service. (# of years, months and days)
4. Combat related injuries (must link to combat or combat related training) (to get a estimate of percent from VA)
5. Disabilities you plan to claim from the VA (list all disabilities)

I have attached a worksheet to help you with the above figures and information.

Once I have these figures I can give a fairly accurate estimate of both CRSC and CRDP. Both of these are estimates because DFAS does the actual calculation of your high three, but these will be very close.
Click to expand...
 


I went to http://www.dfas.mil/Calculator.htm and I my projected information. It came out with a pretty accurate total.


You may be shocked at how little you MAY or MAY NOT receive for your CRSC (Combat Related Special Compensation).

As for myself, when I input 50% for the CRSC qualified percentage, the DFAS calculator came up with ZERO CRSC award dollars for me.

Results will vary from person to person. Be sure to only input your Combat/Combat-related percentage in that block - not the service-connected.

Please let us know if your calculation will award you some/any amount CRSC. Amounts will vary from a portion of your maximum CRSC to zero CRSC.

Hope this helps and please let us know.

v/r,
nwlivewire
 
As I understand it, you already have your DA Form 199 from the PEB, San Antonio. Have you been given a percentage from the board at this time? When you came onto active duty, did personnel adjust you active duty date for retirement purposes to include your reserve time? If so, this will be taken into considerations when the PEB was conducted.

5100 reserve points equates to 14.16 years of active time plus your 10 years of active duty time should put you over 24 years total active time. For pay purposes you should be over 26.

The Medical board could do one of three things during the board:

Return the member to duty (with or without assignment limitations, and or medical re-training)
Place the member on the temporary disabled/retired list (TDRL)
Separate the member from active duty, or
Medically retire the member

With the number of years that you have in service, you can't be separated from active duty. Regulations protect you. If your disability diqualifies you from military service, you can't be returned to duty, so that leaves you being either retired to one of two options. 1. TDRL (temporary disabled retired list) or 2. PDRL (permanent disabled retired list). Here is a link to help you understand the difference:

http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/woundedwarriorpay/disabilityretirements.html

Once the board has made it's decision, you still have the option of the COAD/COADOS.

If you are medically retired your medical retirement payments start immediately. Your reserve points should be calculated into active time and awarded as such by DFAS. One thing you must be aware of is that by Federal law you are not allowed to draw two diasability checks at t he same time. (i.e. medical retirement and VA compensation) If you COAD you may retire and draw full VA compensation IF your VA disabilities are over 50% rating. If they are not over 50% rating your VA will offset your retirement. (i.e. if your retirement is $3000 and your VA compensation is $500, your retirement would become $2500 and you would receive $500 the VA totally $3000. You can't ever get more than your retirement.) If you disability is combat related, you are eligible for CRSC. (A DFAS offset for the VA disability offset from your retirement amount.) This amout varies depending on the figures I posted earlier.

abrn1234 said:
I just completed my MEB at Fort Knox, the process for me was rather smooth. My Question: I am currently mobilized on COADOS orders (5th Year) I have been on active duty orders of some type since September 2000. I am a reservist, the MEB determined that I have issues that make me non-eligible for retention. Will they medically retire me with medical disability compensation or will they tell me to go to the VA and collect until I can start receiving my pension at age 60 (approx.)???
Additionally I have 27 years of reserve service with the last 10 full time. I have approx. 5100 reserve points.
Click to expand...
 
You are right when it comes to figuring CRSC, but when compared to CRDP in the long run there is very little difference. With a 20 year retirement you will have to report that to the government every year on taxes and have it included in your income and medical retirement is not. That will put you into a whole different tax bracket.

Each person is differrent when it comes to the decision of CRSC or CRDP. Just need to look at the dollar amount closely, and get help if there are any questions about it. DFAS will not help you at all. They won't even tell you the exact calculations they use.

nwlivewire said:


I went to http://www.dfas.mil/Calculator.htm and I my projected information. It came out with a pretty accurate total.


You may be shocked at how little you MAY or MAY NOT receive for your CRSC (Combat Related Special Compensation).

As for myself, when I input 50% for the CRSC qualified percentage, the DFAS calculator came up with ZERO CRSC award dollars for me.

Results will vary from person to person. Be sure to only input your Combat/Combat-related percentage in that block - not the service-connected.

Please let us know if your calculation will award you some/any amount CRSC. Amounts will vary from a portion of your maximum CRSC to zero CRSC.

Hope this helps and please let us know.

v/r,
nwlivewire
Click to expand...
 
Let me clear up the details a little:

1. Have not received a DA Form 199.

2. Career History:
July 1983 to August 2000 TPU (drilling reservist)
Sept 2000 - May 2001 Tour in Bosnia
July 2001 - April 2005 AGR
May 2005 - May 2007 Mobilization Orders
May 2007 - May 2008 COADOS Orders
May 2008 - May 2009 Mobilization Orders
May 2009 - Present COADOS Orders

3. I never entered into active duty service unless on Mobilization orders or COADOS Orders both Title 10 orders.

4. My points are a combination TPU and what active I have served so:
Last ten years active plus time active for schools etc... 4065 points
TPU over 27 years - 1035

5. I have completed my medical evaluations by the VA and I am looking at somewhere around 70-80 % disabled by VA.
 
Ok, got it. you have a total of 14.16 years of credible service. Now you have decisions. I am going to research wether or not you will get medical retirement immediately upon retirement or around 60ish. I am leaning towards the latter though. You should check with your local PEBLO and retirement liason to find out exactly when ou will be drawing you retirement pay. Your medical retirement will only be based on the disabilities that disqualify you from military service. The remainder of your disabilities may be claimed through the VA. If your VA disabilites exceeds your medical retirement your VA compensation will become your retirement pay. This is some funny math that the military and VA use to do this, but it will all work out in the end. Are any of your disabilities related to comabat. If so, you can file for CRSC and recoup some of the offset.
 
No combat related injuries. What makes me not retainable is planter faciitis (feet hurt, walk at own pace, no running), chronic neck pain (can't wear combat gear, no push-ups), sleep apnea and high blood pressure.
 
abrn1234,

If medically retired, you draw retirement pay immediately (this is true of active duty and reservists). If you have more than 20 years of service as a reservist, your eligibility for CRDP begins at age 60 (or, if you had overseas service, this may be reduced 90 days per 90 days served under recent changes to the law...the trigger for CRDP eligibility is, except for the fact that you are medically retired, would you be eligible to receive non-disability retirement pay).
 
With the injuries that you have listed, did you have surgery on the plantar flaciitis? I ask because I have not seen this get rated as a disqualifying disability before. That is the same with sleep apnea and high blood pressure. I am sure that you are using a CPAP. Have you had heart problems, such as heart attack or stints?

The neck pain and not being able to wear combat gear, rucksack or do push-ups is a disqualifying factor. Depending on the extent of the injury/pain they may even say that your are fit for duty or reclass you to another MOS.

I am not saying that the others are not, just make sure that your PCM eloborates in your NARSUM very well. If not, these will not be considered disqualifying from military service.

I would seek the assistance of a service organization during your MEB. Any one will do. I am partial to the DAV and they will represent you for free and without you being a member. They will guide you through the entire process and make sure that you are taken care of.
 
No foot surgery. I have yet to receive my MEB results so that I can sign and then go before the PEB, once I receive it I will probably have some more questions. I will get in touch with the DAV.
 
abrn1234,

Good luck and I wish you all the best. I am also going to bring this up to my fellow CSO's to see if they have input for you. I want you to have all the information you can for this process.

abrn1234 said:
No foot surgery. I have yet to receive my MEB results so that I can sign and then go before the PEB, once I receive it I will probably have some more questions. I will get in touch with the DAV.
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Gent’s, not sure if I’m on the right thread or not but I need some info. Just been diagnosed with PTSD (and major depressive disorder) combat related, and recommended for MEB. I have 19 years 8 months in service (14 years enlisted and 5 years 8 months officer).
My question is related to time in service determination. Will my time in service be determined when the MEB or PEB makes the final determination? Or do they look at when the diagnosis was made.
Thanks
Jim
 
Jim,

Your time in service will be calculated after your MEB/PEB is completed, based on the date you select to retire. Depending upon all of you disabilities on top of PTSD, I would sit down with a local service organization representative and discuss all the options of MEB/PEB vs. COAD (contnuation on active duty). You may find it eye opening and this is a free service to you always. If I can answer any questions, let me know.
 
That's good news. I'm still early in the process. Just had the diagnosis a few days ago. I was just pretty worried about my time in service.

Thanks for the quick response.
 
ArmyFlyer7 I am trying to decide between medical retirement and a regular 20 year retirement. I have 19 years active duty and 21 years for pay. I was diagnosed with Ulcerative Colitis in 2007. I also have back problems and knee problems. I have one deployment under my belt. Been having some issues with my UC and just not sure if it would be beneficial to put in for MEB or just retire and then put in for VA disability. I heard the MEB process is time consuming but in your opinion would it be beneficial? I have been reading that several branches have beend discharging soldiers with UC. What are my options at this point in my career?

Chris
 
Chris,

I recommend that you take the 20 year (regular) retirement versus the MEB. If you take the MED, you will not be entitled to VA compensation and the Medical retirement concurrently. Federal Law prohibits you from receiving two disability checks at the same time.

If ALL your disabilities are COMBAT related, then the MEB would be a better way to go and I would still recommend trying to get over 20 years prior to the MEB retirement. You would receive CRSC and that is different than what is considered two disability checks. If all you disabilities are not combat related, then take the first paragraph and file with the VA 6 months prior to retirement to ensure that you are under the BDD (Benefits Due at Discharge) program. This option will probably gain you the most money.

To be sure which is the best for you, I recommend seeing a local DAV (Disabled American Veteran) representative. You can find the closest one to you at Disabled American Veterans.

Overall, from what you put in your post, I would recommend the regular retirement and filing for the VA prior to retirement over the MEB.

Hope this helps,

James
 
I don't think you should look at it as an either/or proposition. That is, getting to 20 years has definite advantages in terms of CRDP eligibility. But, say you get referred to MEB/PEB with 20 or more years, then you have the possibility of a higher percentage than your LOS retirement, while still retaining CRDP eligibility. Depending on the members retired base pay and disability picture, this scenario may maximize chances of highest possible financial outcome.

Remember, a combat related finding from the PEB will also have significant tax advantages (making military retirement pay tax free).

I recommend that you take the 20 year (regular) retirement versus the MEB. If you take the MED, you will not be entitled to VA compensation and the Medical retirement concurrently. Federal Law prohibits you from receiving two disability checks at the same time.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, if you qualify for CRDP or CRSC, then you can get concurrent military and VA compensation. I think this was implied by the next paragraph, but wanted to make sure this point was clear. If you make it to 20 years and are referred to MEB/PEB, you do not lose out on CRDP eligibility by being medically retired.

If ALL your disabilities are COMBAT related, then the MEB would be a better way to go and I would still recommend trying to get over 20 years prior to the MEB retirement. You would receive CRSC and that is different than what is considered two disability checks. If all you disabilities are not combat related, then take the first paragraph and file with the VA 6 months prior to retirement to ensure that you are under the BDD (Benefits Due at Discharge) program. This option will probably gain you the most money.
Click to expand...

It is not necessary that ALL conditions be combat related. You can get CRSC with a single combat related compensation. And, as mentioned above, remember to consider combat related finding tax advantages on military pay as a result of MEB/PEB.

Another thing to consider, in terms of absolute military compensation, the longer you stay in, the more money you will receive. It is almost always better to get to 20 years, but you should consider whether you want to stay longer than 20...and/or consider what your likely compensation may be after retirement from civilian employment (that is, do you make more money ultimately by remaining in the military additional years or do you do better by getting out earlier (as soon as you are retirement eligible) and then beginning a civilian career).
 
Thanks for some of the clarification Jason. He will qualify for either CRDP or CRSC if he exceeds 20 years. With CRSC associated with combat related injuries and if he goes through a MEB/PEB, and only has one or two injuries that rate CRSC, then they may not calculate as high as receiving CDRP (combination of all disabilities incurred while on active duty), even after taking into account the amount it would be reduced due to taxes.

If Chris elected for the MEB/PEB, he would not be entitled to CRDP, even if exceeds 20 years of service and would have to apply for CRSC. The MEB may give a higher percentage for retirement versus the 20 year retirement, but it will be deducted from any CRSC pay (Method A offset) prior to any payments being made.

Here is an example: You did 20 years 0 months active duty (YOS). Your High three base pay = $4386.00 and you get 70% for a chapter 61 (Medical retirement). This would give you $3070 a month for your retirement pay.

A 20 retirement based off the same high three base pay would be $2193. The difference between your chapter 61 ($3070) and YOS ($2193) is $877. The $877 becomes you Method A offset and is deducted from any CRSC amount prior to payment. If you are awarded a VA rating of 90% ($1837.00 with dependent) and 70% ($1409.00 with dependent) is found to be Combat Related, then you would receive: $532 ($1409-Method A offset of $877) for a CRSC payment. With that offset only 60% (single rate) rating or higher combat related disabilities would give any amount of monies. The VA does not establish which disabilities are combat related unfortunately. This is done by DFAS (CRSC section) based off paperwork that you submit. Any CRSC amount would be tax free and all CRSC disabilities must be combat related. Total monthly pay = $3602.00 (Tax free)

A YOS retirement based off the same High three ($4386) would give you $2193 for retirement and then you can file for VA disability and IF you exceed 50% you will receive CRDP. If you VA rating is 90% ($1837.00 with dependent), you would receive $1805 for you CRDP + your YOS retirement. If your VA disabilities are 40% or lower, your VA check will become a VA waiver and be offset from your retirement as tax free. Total monthly pay = $3998.00 (Taxable) Assuming an 18% Tax bracket you would end up with $3604.00

As you can see they come out to almost the exact same dollar amount once taxes are taken out.

You may only have one or the other.. CRSC or CRDP (must exceed 50% from the VA for this), but not both.

Without knowing a complete list of your disabilities you should see any service representative to assist you in making the correct decision and help you work through either the MEB or retirement and with filing VA paperwork.

I hope I cleared up things with this post.
 
James, just one point of clarification:

armyflyer7 said:
If Chris elected for the MEB/PEB, he would not be entitled to CRDP, even if exceeds 20 years of service and would have to apply for CRSC.
Click to expand...

Not sure if you mean something else or if I am misunderstanding what you are saying. But, take a look at this: Section 642

Members with 20 years or more can get CRDP (if otherwise eligible, i.e., having VA rating of 50% or more) whether they are length of service or military disability retirees. And if the military disability retirement is otherwise non-taxable, then the CRDP is also non-taxable (though, if the member is getting non-taxable income, they are going to almost certainly be eligible for CRSC).

In many cases, after getting to 20 years, it may well be the case that there will be no additional money benefit to getting a military disability retirement vice a length of service retirement. However, there are some members who will benefit greatly by having a PEB award greater than a length of service calculation award. The other thing to keep in mind is that getting a high PEB award can help smooth the way for later VA compensation award. (Which raises a whole other issue- in some cases, VA compensation goes smoothly and is awarded in a timely manner. But othertimes, it can take a long time to get the VA award and to go through appeals...and having a PEB rating in hand can, in some cases, make things go smoother at the VA; of course, further changing the landscape is the Integrated Disability Evaluation System/Pilot Program).

Again, in some cases, it will make no difference for members with 20 or more years of service to be retired for length of service or for disability retirement. But, you do not lose out in any way by being medically retired if you have 20 or more years. And in some cases, you will do better. Taking that into account, I think I would generally lean towards going through MEB/PEB process in these types of cases. The caveat being to consider 'opportunity cost" of continued military service versus potential civilian income post-retirement.
 
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