Had an admin board decide honorable discharge after many failed pt tests.....put on hold after due to MEB. MEB came back w 20 percent for Diabetes....VA rating of 80 total for knees, blood pressure, feet, misc others. My Pueblo first told me legal was dropping the admin discharge....but I get an email hours later stating they are still pursuing dual action case. My question is......how often does the MEB take presidence over the admin if the only paperwork I have is failed PT tests....and how long before I know? Thanks in advance.
Dual Action Process
- Thread starter yooper2001
- Start date
Was this your IPEB or FPEB? Did you accept the 20% findings?
I accepted the findings (which will give me a 120k severance) but am concerned that the dual action will continue and the SecAF will choose the admin discharge...giving me nothing. (and having to sell 68 days of leave instead of terminal...and have to pay back some SRB) which wont happen If I get the medical discharge
APFT failure does not carry a possible discharge UOTHC. As such, you cannot be administratively separated unless someone changes your PEB's findings to fit for duty. My guess is they are continuing the admin processing in case the PEB's finding are changed.
So since I accepted the PEB discharge...it trumps the admin discharge for PT and stops the dual action ? No need for SecAF?
Your PEB has to be approved by the appropriate authority. But your case WILL NOT go to the SecAF for determination of whether you will receive the discharge for physical unfitness or the admin discharge. That would only have occurred if you were being considered for discharge UOTHC.
So are you saying if a individual has a dual action process one for admin charge for PT failures and a MEB then if the PEB finds you unfit and you receive retirement then they automatically go with retirement. If that is what you are saying I'm currently going through this process and I was told that AFPC will still have to decide which one to go with and this decision takes around two months for a decision. The MEB lawyers at Lackland told me this and he said there is know guarantee that I would get retirement. I received 60% AF (PDRL) and 100% VA
I am also being told this.
jdjohnson, yooper 2001
Ed is correct in what he is saying. What you are being told is wrong. You guys need to tell you PEBLO to produce documentation showing by what authority your retirement is being held up. Again, retirement takes precedent over possible non-UOTHC admin seps. In other words, the only way they can hold up you retirement or separation would be if you are facing a possible dishonorable discharge.
Ed is correct in what he is saying. What you are being told is wrong. You guys need to tell you PEBLO to produce documentation showing by what authority your retirement is being held up. Again, retirement takes precedent over possible non-UOTHC admin seps. In other words, the only way they can hold up you retirement or separation would be if you are facing a possible dishonorable discharge.
Ceilingfan,
I know we have talked about this in the past but everything I'm hearing is that AFPC will have to pick. this came from my first shirt, PEBLO and MEB lawyers. Do you have AFI's that says they can't hold up my retirement.
I can give you the Army regulation. But that comes from DoDIs (Department of Defense Instructions) which ALL services have to follow.
I'm in the Air Force but I will take the DODI
Im not facing retirement...just separation w/severance....but legal is stating they are sending up the dual action to Sec AF.....so any reg will help. They are the ones that wont let the peblo finish the separation....
Jason Perry
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I think the AFI is ambiguous- especially given that what Ed stated is correct and is stated in several places in DoDI's. Here is what AFI 36-3212 says:
"1.4.4. Dual Action. Process as dual action, disability cases on members with an unfit finding
who are also pending administrative separation (including Second Lieutenants being processed for
"not qualified for promotion"), or who apply for nondisability retirement or discharge in lieu of
CM action according to AFIs 36-3203, Service Retirements, 36-3206, Administrative Discharge
Procedures, 36-3207, Separating Commissioned Officers, 36-3208, Administrative Separation of Airmen
or 36-3209, Separation Procedures for Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve Members. SAFPC
makes the final disposition. If SAFPC does not accept the retirement or discharge in lieu of CM
action, the CM will proceed. If the sentence does not result in punitive discharge, then the
disability case can be processed. NOTE: Administrative action continues in any disability case that results in a fit determination."
I doubt the outcome will change no matter how they process the finalization of your case. Likely, nothing that can be done until some final action takes place (if your disability separation is approved, you have the result you want...if they disapprove and process you for admin separation based on PT failures, then you will have to appeal to AFBCMR or in Federal Court). I would be shocked if your disability separation is not approved.
"1.4.4. Dual Action. Process as dual action, disability cases on members with an unfit finding
who are also pending administrative separation (including Second Lieutenants being processed for
"not qualified for promotion"), or who apply for nondisability retirement or discharge in lieu of
CM action according to AFIs 36-3203, Service Retirements, 36-3206, Administrative Discharge
Procedures, 36-3207, Separating Commissioned Officers, 36-3208, Administrative Separation of Airmen
or 36-3209, Separation Procedures for Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve Members. SAFPC
makes the final disposition. If SAFPC does not accept the retirement or discharge in lieu of CM
action, the CM will proceed. If the sentence does not result in punitive discharge, then the
disability case can be processed. NOTE: Administrative action continues in any disability case that results in a fit determination."
I doubt the outcome will change no matter how they process the finalization of your case. Likely, nothing that can be done until some final action takes place (if your disability separation is approved, you have the result you want...if they disapprove and process you for admin separation based on PT failures, then you will have to appeal to AFBCMR or in Federal Court). I would be shocked if your disability separation is not approved.
The last update that I have been given...is that legal...and the base commander is considering dropping the admin discharge due to an eight month backlog at the secAF office....and the probability the medical discharge going through anyway.......so I am crossing my fingers...should find out this week.
The actual loophole they are taking is that they are REVERSING my admin board decision and granting me probation/rehabilitation. This effectively changes the whole dual action so I can do the medical discharge.....I sign the paperwork today.
They are doing this because they are instructed to by DoD. lol. I mean, when I was going through, it was med board 101 that medical separation/retirement take precedent over admin seps. I don't know where the disconnect is coming from now. Especially, the MEB legal offices...they should be aware of DoDI's. I mean, the overview packet I was given from my MEB legal office, when I first started my MEB, included a copy of the DoDI's regarding IDES. Seems to me that SM's are being tormented unnecessarily when not being told about this. Never mind the fact that probably the majority of admin sep cases against SM's, started after initiating of MEB, are merely witch hunts
I get that anything is possible and could happen, but, bottom line...I don't get why MEB legal is not providing you guys with the DoDI's. Weird.
Anyway, sounds like things are going to work out for you, yooper2001, correct?
I get that anything is possible and could happen, but, bottom line...I don't get why MEB legal is not providing you guys with the DoDI's. Weird.
Anyway, sounds like things are going to work out for you, yooper2001, correct?
I am getting pretty nervous myself. I accepted a medical retirement in January (40% unfit, 90% VA). I also have an unfitting back condition and a Cat I: Deep Vein Thrombosis which is currently awaiting a ruling. I expected to be on terminal leave by now (February), but I found out the a CC outside my organization intervened so that I wouldn't receive a retirement date. The CC wants me to take and fail my 5th PFT (4 Failures occurred while under IDES/MEB) so that they can draw up administrative actions and attempt a Dual Action Process. I currently have an Abdominal Circumference only profile. Really difficult to cut waist when I am on a no "high impact" profile that instructs that I walk no more than 1/2 mile, because life threatening blood clot is located in vein under the knee.
Has anybody experienced or seen such activities? Do you believe I will be administratively separated for 5 PFT failures or will the Medical retirement that I accepted stand?
Has anybody experienced or seen such activities? Do you believe I will be administratively separated for 5 PFT failures or will the Medical retirement that I accepted stand?
Yeesh . . . I will tell you I have NEVER seen a case where someone is processed for an administrative separation ILO a disability separation unless an UOTHC could be given for the nature of the separation. And I've been giving out the discharges and correcting the discharges for 31 years . . .
AR 635-40
4–3. Enlisted Soldiers subject to administrative separation
a. Except as provided below, an enlisted Soldier may not be referred for, or continue, physical disability processing when action has been started under any regulatory provision which authorizes a characterization of service of under other than honorable conditions.
b. If the case comes within the limitations above, the commander exercising general court-martial jurisdiction over the Soldier may abate the administrative separation. This authority may not be delegated. A copy of the decision, signed by the General Court Martial Convening Authority (GCMCA), must be forwarded with the disability case file to the PEB. A case file may be referred in this way if the GCMCA finds the following:
(1) The disability is the cause, or a substantial contributing cause, of the misconduct that might result in a discharge under other than honorable conditions.
(2) Other circumstances warrant disability processing instead of alternate administrative separation.
c. A Soldier being considered for separation because of unsatisfactory performance (AR 635–200, chap 13), must be referred for disability processing upon approved recommendation of a MEB (AR 635–200, para 1–35(a).
AR 635-40
4–3. Enlisted Soldiers subject to administrative separation
a. Except as provided below, an enlisted Soldier may not be referred for, or continue, physical disability processing when action has been started under any regulatory provision which authorizes a characterization of service of under other than honorable conditions.
b. If the case comes within the limitations above, the commander exercising general court-martial jurisdiction over the Soldier may abate the administrative separation. This authority may not be delegated. A copy of the decision, signed by the General Court Martial Convening Authority (GCMCA), must be forwarded with the disability case file to the PEB. A case file may be referred in this way if the GCMCA finds the following:
(1) The disability is the cause, or a substantial contributing cause, of the misconduct that might result in a discharge under other than honorable conditions.
(2) Other circumstances warrant disability processing instead of alternate administrative separation.
c. A Soldier being considered for separation because of unsatisfactory performance (AR 635–200, chap 13), must be referred for disability processing upon approved recommendation of a MEB (AR 635–200, para 1–35(a).