IDES after 18 years of active duty

O

oldvet

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
I am a 46 year-old female O4 with 18 years of active duty and no combat deployments. I busted tape in May 2018 and got flagged for ABCP. In Oct, my boss sent me to my PCM to get a "memo" stating that I have medical conditions that are preventing me from losing weight, for him to put in my ABCP packet as he was preparing to administratively chapter me out of the Army. On Oct 3, instead of the memo, my PCM put me on a P3 profile for my neck and back, initiating MEB. My history: I have been in BH treatment for Adjustment Disorder since 2012 (over six years now!) and was diagnosed with Obstructive Sleep Apnea in June 2018 and finally started CPAP therapy on Oct 17. These are the two conditions that I believe have caused me to gain weight (especially chronic stress over the past six years due to toxic leadership during my attempt at completing a post-graduate Long Term Health Education & Training residency, which is documented with 15-6 investigation findings of a hostile work environment and triggered me to seek BH therapy starting in 2012, and depression and from being stuck in shitty jobs desk jobs as punishment for withdrawing from the toxic residency, instead of working as a medical professional, which is what I went to college and medical school to do). My referral to the MEB is based on diagnosis of Severe DDD with a bulging disc and kyphosis in my neck, and scoliosis and arthritis in my thoracic and lumbar spine, which prevent me from being able to wear combat helmet and body armor, rendering me non-deployable. I also have a history of femoral neck fracture from my first attempt at Airborne School in 1992, surgery on both feet for acquired hallux valgus deformity in 2011 & 2012. So far I've had two VA C&P exams - audiology with a diagnosis of tinnitus, and psychiatry with a diagnosis of adjustment disorder (which is supposed to be temporary but I've had for more than six years). My final C&P physical exam is on Nov 14. I am concerned about losing my retirement benefits if not found unfit with 30% by DoD and being separated with only severance pay. I know about COAD, but money can't buy happiness, so I am tempted to throw in the towel rather than fight for some extra money. To add insult to injury, my boss told me, in a written counseling statement because I missed PT formation because of my sleep problem (even as a field grade officer, I am required to show my face at 0620 accountability formation every day) that he can't recommend me for a retirement award because I am still flagged for ABCP (My PCM did finally give me a memo on Oct 25 stating that I am not medically cleared to participate in ABCP) I know that nobody on this forum can tell me what the outcome of my MEB/PEB will be at this point, but I just wanted to share my story in an effort to vent my frustration at being forced out like I'm nothing, after investing 26 years of my life into my military career (9 years Enlisted + 4 years ROTC Green-To-Gold + 4 years Health Professions Scholarship Program through medical school + 9 years as an Officer.) Feels like 26 years of my life wasted.
 
Hi Old Vet, Don’t be too hard on yourself, everyon can relate to having had toxic leadership to deal with at some point or another. Two thoughts come to mind (which is kids nd of a miracle at times for this old Chief’s brain after multiple injuries and a 39+ year career as an Army Aviator, l9l): one is that with your 18 yrs of AD, you should be in “sanctuary”, meaning, after 18 yrs, you can’t be forced out, but rather retained to complete your 20 for AD Retirement. The second is that you actually probably have more than 18 yrs AD credit, if your 4 yrs of Med School were similar to my brother’s in the Air Force, where he had to do usually a “summer tour” on AD while being a Reserve medical officer, with each summer tour being about 2 months long. That alone, would put you at close to 19 years AD (based on points), and another reason you could not (should not) be kicked out prior to your 20. That aside, you would really want to strive to complete your AD 20, because once you go thru the IDES process and the MEB/PEB boards, should they find you unable to perform your “Soldier skills” (based on your MOS), and assuming the PEB board recommends a medical retirement (quite likely, even at 30 percent), you will be Retired at the higher of your medical percentage or your AD retired rate (say 50 percent after completion of 20 yrs), PLUS you will then be legally entitled to receive “Concurrent Receipt” from the VA, in addition to your Army DoD Retirement Pay. I know it’s hard to think about all of these things, when you have “alligators biting your ankles “ (as in toxic leadership and poor staff treatment), but please try to keep a clear head and remember that this is the time to “think for yourself first”. The service is certainly not going to think of you first.
I wish you the very best, you deserve it. I spent 39 years as an Aviator, and all the Army Doctors, Nurses and Medics that treated me after my injuries were totally awesome, you all deserve the moon! And once you complete your AD 20 and are retired, after your PEB retirement, enjoy what you deserve, a DoD Retirement, supplemented by a Concurrent VA disability payment, tax free, and then, after you take some “me Time “, go find a private medical practice that will pay you well and treat you better that perhaps you have been treated. You deserve it, because you have cared for hundreds, if not thousands, of troopers out there. God Bless!
 
Get the best lawyer you can and fight. As said above, sanctuary protects you from being chartered out. There are as many as 6 levels of appeal. And at the end of each, you’ll get 10 days to sign the findings. Take all ten every time, this gets you and additional 60 days just for signing documents! If you have terminal leave that can buy you another 2-3 months.

I did these things and my MEB took around 14 months. I ended with 17.5 years. Had I made 20, I would be recieving and extra 1500 a month for life!!!

Fight to drag it out and fight for COAD!

Fight to have your psych doctor prescribe meds that will actually help with your anxiety and depression over this. Adjustment disorder for 6 years is absolute BS! Ask for a full neuropsych evaluation and real dignosis.

Read up on all of your referees conditions. Go to militarydisabilitymadeeasy.com and search each of your conditions to see how the VA will likely rate you.
 
oldvet said:
I am a 46 year-old female O4 with 18 years of active duty and no combat deployments. I busted tape in May 2018 and got flagged for ABCP. In Oct, my boss sent me to my PCM to get a "memo" stating that I have medical conditions that are preventing me from losing weight, for him to put in my ABCP packet as he was preparing to administratively chapter me out of the Army. On Oct 3, instead of the memo, my PCM put me on a P3 profile for my neck and back, initiating MEB. My history: I have been in BH treatment for Adjustment Disorder since 2012 (over six years now!) and was diagnosed with Obstructive Sleep Apnea in June 2018 and finally started CPAP therapy on Oct 17. These are the two conditions that I believe have caused me to gain weight (especially chronic stress over the past six years due to toxic leadership during my attempt at completing a post-graduate Long Term Health Education & Training residency, which is documented with 15-6 investigation findings of a hostile work environment and triggered me to seek BH therapy starting in 2012, and depression and from being stuck in shitty jobs desk jobs as punishment for withdrawing from the toxic residency, instead of working as a medical professional, which is what I went to college and medical school to do). My referral to the MEB is based on diagnosis of Severe DDD with a bulging disc and kyphosis in my neck, and scoliosis and arthritis in my thoracic and lumbar spine, which prevent me from being able to wear combat helmet and body armor, rendering me non-deployable. I also have a history of femoral neck fracture from my first attempt at Airborne School in 1992, surgery on both feet for acquired hallux valgus deformity in 2011 & 2012. So far I've had two VA C&P exams - audiology with a diagnosis of tinnitus, and psychiatry with a diagnosis of adjustment disorder (which is supposed to be temporary but I've had for more than six years). My final C&P physical exam is on Nov 14. I am concerned about losing my retirement benefits if not found unfit with 30% by DoD and being separated with only severance pay. I know about COAD, but money can't buy happiness, so I am tempted to throw in the towel rather than fight for some extra money. To add insult to injury, my boss told me, in a written counseling statement because I missed PT formation because of my sleep problem (even as a field grade officer, I am required to show my face at 0620 accountability formation every day) that he can't recommend me for a retirement award because I am still flagged for ABCP (My PCM did finally give me a memo on Oct 25 stating that I am not medically cleared to participate in ABCP) I know that nobody on this forum can tell me what the outcome of my MEB/PEB will be at this point, but I just wanted to share my story in an effort to vent my frustration at being forced out like I'm nothing, after investing 26 years of my life into my military career (9 years Enlisted + 4 years ROTC Green-To-Gold + 4 years Health Professions Scholarship Program through medical school + 9 years as an Officer.) Feels like 26 years of my life wasted.
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Welcome to the PEB Forum! :)

Indeed, all good feedback as provided above!

In retrospect, it took me 618 calendar days to complete the DoD IDES process when on military active duty due to invoking my IDES appeal opportunity rights. Then, upon placement onto the DoD military TDRL, it took 4 years & 17 days to finally get placed onto the DoD military PDRL four months ago from the DoD LDES PEB process due to invoking my TDRL appeal opportunity rights!

As such, please continue to be "positively proactive" throughout your ongoing endeavors while in the DoD IDES process; as a senior O-5 Officer end zone for O-6 promotion in the U.S. Army when previously on military active duty while in the DoD IDES process, I completely comprehend your ordeals. Previously, I too was awarded a 3-year Active Duty ROTC Scholarship when performing 5+ years of Enlisted active duty military service. If feasible, please try to make the necessary adjustments and continue pressing onward!

That all said, as I have posted innumerably in my threads & replies on the PEB Forum, "never default acceptance to any injustices; fight then continue to fight some more until receipt of your desired expectations supportive via all available medical evidence and/or medical documentation;" this is definitely my motto! Just four months ago, justice was finally served for myself and my family! You can definitely do it too! Take care!

Thus, I quite often comment that "possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer!"

Best Wishes!
 
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Can you tell me which date they use to determine your length of service for retirement purposes? Do they use Basic Active Service Date, Pay Entry Basic Date, or do they go by months of Active Federal Service? Mine are all different. Right now, my BASD is 20001110; my PEBD is 19990326, and I'm at 227 months of AFS (18.9 years) according to my SRB/ORB. The AFS includes two periods of Active Duty for Training during the summer of 2007 & 2008 while I was in Medical School (I can't find orders for the third 6-week period of ADT in 2009, so they won't give me credit for it).
 
oldvet said:
Can you tell me which date they use to determine your length of service for retirement purposes? Do they use Basic Active Service Date, Pay Entry Basic Date, or do they go by months of Active Federal Service? Mine are all different. Right now, my BASD is 20001110; my PEBD is 19990326, and I'm at 227 months of AFS (18.9 years) according to my SRB/ORB. The AFS includes two periods of Active Duty for Training during the summer of 2007 & 2008 while I was in Medical School (I can't find orders for the third 6-week period of ADT in 2009, so they won't give me credit for it).
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Indeed, that's a good question!

As based upon DA Form 7301-R (Officer Service Computation for Retirement) computed by TRANSPOC (e.g., Retirement Services Office), the total active federal service is used (e.g., enlisted service, warrant officer service, commissioned officer).

Also, your BASD should have already been previously adjusted due to ADT periods (as in my particular case due to SMP participation while in ROTC at MSU), and federal civilian service (as in my particular case when doing summer interns with U.S. Army while in ROTC at MSU).

Hmm, do you still have the military pay voucher for the 2009 ADT at this point in time? It would definitely validate the additional ADT dates for AFS credit from being on military orders in 2009. If not, maybe you can make an official inquiry with DFAS for a historical copy of the missing military pay voucher for the 2009 ADT 6-week period; just a thought! Take care!

Thus, I quite often comment that "possessing well-informed knowledge is truly a powerful equalizer!"

Best Wishes!
 
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After a successful MEB appeal to add a 2nd condition to be found unfit (in order to increase my chances of getting to 30% DoD if all else fails), my VA ratings are back as "Separate with severance" / 100% VA. I will find out the exact percentage this morning when I meet with the PEBLO.
  1. Should I request a Formal PEB to request to be found fit, in addition to requesting VA Rating Reconsideration for my two unfit conditions to try to get to 30%?
  2. If I request a FPEB to be found unfit, would they be able to admin separate me for being flagged for ABCP (too fat)? AR 600-9 says Soldiers over 18 years of service are exempt, but nobody seems to acknowledge this.
There is no way to stretch this process out over 18 months with the rapid rate that they are pushing these IDES cases through. My PEBLO has been advising me to request COAD since day 1, as it seems to be my only option to be allowed to stay until AUG 2020 when I will have 20 years AFS for CRDP eligibility. My command is unsupportive, since I am nothing but a "black eye" on their deployability numbers and they just want me out, but I know it is ultimately up to HRC as the approval authority. I think part of their lack of support has to do with the fact that I no longer dedicate my days to the unit, since I am freaking out about losing my retirement, have been spending my days creating resumes and cover letters to find a job since I may find myself without a paycheck in just a few months. I am in pain daily from arthritis in my back and neck that is only alleviated by swimming and yoga + ibuprofen and muscle relaxers, so I question my ability to even keep a full-time job as a civilian, especially since I have been stuck behind a desk doing the commander's Power Point slides for the past six years instead of practicing medicine.
THIS SUCKS. This feels like the ultimate betrayal for dedicating 26 years of my life to the Army (8.5 years enlisted +4 years ROTC Green to Gold + 4 years medical school through the Armed Forces HPSP scholarship program, and 10 years as Commissioned Officer) just to be thrown out as a useless piece of broken trash.
I try to stay positive and tell myself that for every door that closes, another one opens, but the thought of losing out on nearly $4000/month in retirement pay for the rest of my life, after working my ass off and giving 100% for the Army for the past 26 years just really pisses me off. :mad: I've never even been on profile, except after orthopedic surgery, until last year when I had to stop doing pushups because of the severe DDD in my neck, and I've passed every single APFT that I've ever taken. And now they are trying to put me out without even a retirement award.
 
oldvet said:
After a successful MEB appeal to add a 2nd condition to be found unfit (in order to increase my chances of getting to 30% DoD if all else fails), my VA ratings are back as "Separate with severance" / 100% VA. I will find out the exact percentage this morning when I meet with the PEBLO.
  1. Should I request a Formal PEB to request to be found fit, in addition to requesting VA Rating Reconsideration for my two unfit conditions to try to get to 30%?
  2. If I request a FPEB to be found unfit, would they be able to admin separate me for being flagged for ABCP (too fat)? AR 600-9 says Soldiers over 18 years of service are exempt, but nobody seems to acknowledge this.
There is no way to stretch this process out over 18 months with the rapid rate that they are pushing these IDES cases through. My PEBLO has been advising me to request COAD since day 1, as it seems to be my only option to be allowed to stay until AUG 2020 when I will have 20 years AFS for CRDP eligibility. My command is unsupportive, since I am nothing but a "black eye" on their deployability numbers and they just want me out, but I know it is ultimately up to HRC as the approval authority. I think part of their lack of support has to do with the fact that I no longer dedicate my days to the unit, since I am freaking out about losing my retirement, have been spending my days creating resumes and cover letters to find a job since I may find myself without a paycheck in just a few months. I am in pain daily from arthritis in my back and neck that is only alleviated by swimming and yoga + ibuprofen and muscle relaxers, so I question my ability to even keep a full-time job as a civilian, especially since I have been stuck behind a desk doing the commander's Power Point slides for the past six years instead of practicing medicine.
THIS SUCKS. This feels like the ultimate betrayal for dedicating 26 years of my life to the Army (8.5 years enlisted +4 years ROTC Green to Gold + 4 years medical school through the Armed Forces HPSP scholarship program, and 10 years as Commissioned Officer) just to be thrown out as a useless piece of broken trash.
I try to stay positive and tell myself that for every door that closes, another one opens, but the thought of losing out on nearly $4000/month in retirement pay for the rest of my life, after working my ass off and giving 100% for the Army for the past 26 years just really pisses me off. :mad: I've never even been on profile, except after orthopedic surgery, until last year when I had to stop doing pushups because of the severe DDD in my neck, and I've passed every single APFT that I've ever taken. And now they are trying to put me out without even a retirement award.
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I feel your pain and hope that some how you don't loose out on your much deserved retirement. I'm at 19.5 yrs and recommended disposition from the IPEB, FEB, and SAFPC is medical retirement for a spinal fusion because I can no longer perform helicopter flight engineer duties. Maybe "Sanctuary" Status works in some services, but it certainly doesn't look like the Air Force honors it. I hope your situation works out in your favor.
 
mjf114 said:
I feel your pain and hope that some how you don't loose out on your much deserved retirement. I'm at 19.5 yrs and recommended disposition from the IPEB, FEB, and SAFPC is medical retirement for a spinal fusion because I can no longer perform helicopter flight engineer duties. Maybe "Sanctuary" Status works in some services, but it certainly doesn't look like the Air Force honors it. I hope your situation works out in your favor.
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I think the “Sanctuary Status” is a myth now that we are in the “Deploy or Get Out” phase
 
Sanctuary doesn't apply for medical board in any service. It is the only status that sanctuary doesn't apply when you reach 18 years. They can kick you out with severance with 19.5 years if your are at the end of the process unfortunately.
 
Makes sense. Thankfully I received my retirement orders yesterday and will be retired at 20yrs and 11 days. I hope others have similar luck.
 
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