Medical Retiree: Does "waiving" military retired pay for purposes of Fed Gov Retirement affect other benefits? (insurance, base privileges, etc)

[DaveK]

@DaveK - Yes I am learning all of this real time trying to navigate it. DFAS had me on hold talking with multiple different supervisors, and they all came back with that answer - once you waive MIL PAY for purposes of FERS Credit - someone who is fully entitled to CRSC / receiving CRSC would then forfeit that eligibility. Which is odd to me because I explained to them my Ret. MIL PAY is $3688 pre-waiver and $0 post-waiver, so "waiving" $0 / month (what is even being waived?) forfeits all CRSC eligibility....

It was also disappointing to hear about the timing of the action. DFAS told me that you forfeit CRSC immediately once the request is processed, NOT when you finally hit your FERS retirement date and begin to collect those FERS payments...

This is totally separate from MRSA - but again another example of how medical retirees are short-changed.

Thank you WaitingonPeblo... This is definitely feeling like fly by the seat of ones pants as few in the positions seem to have the answers. For me as I'm likely to not get any CRSC based on the numbers, I'm doing my best to understand the interactions of the rest of the various pays. Retiring from Fed service and then military seems to be backwards compared to most and that's apparently confusing. As an example it appears I cannot by back any new military time.

And thanks Mr. Ron.

 

[maronedp]

I am a medical retiree (100% VA & 60% DoD) and I am now employed by the federal government. All of my DoD retirement is waived by the VA waiver. I am now looking into the process of buying back my military time and due to my medical retirement, I am not able to get straight answers from HR....Currently all of my DoD Retiree Pay is waived for my VA disability anyways, so I am considering "waiving" my DoD Retiree Pay through the GOV in order to buy back my time. I am currently earning leave at 4 hours per pay period despite 7.5 years of active duty time. If I am able to stick it out and make it to retirement with FedGov, it would be nice to be able to earn that pension with my military time finally factored in somewhere for retirement.


Question 1

1 - If I "waive" the retired pay (which I technically already did when I accepted VA over DoD when I was medically retired) through HR / Admin at Fed Job, would any other benefits be affected? (ie - my tricare)

For retirement:

An employee must waive military retired pay to receive any credit for military service unless the retired pay is awarded based on a service-connected disability incurred in combat with an enemy of the United States or caused by an instrumentality of war and incurred in the line of duty during a period of war as defined by 38 U.S.C. 301, or awarded under 10 U.S.C. chapter 1223 (previously chapter 67).

Link - VA for Vets: All Things Veterans – Vet Chats


Question 2

2- I am waiting on my CRSC claim to come back. When it does - Is a CRSC finding of (Instrumentality of war) sufficient for allowing credit of military service towards a FedGov retirement?

2a - Is CRSC considered totally seperated from Military Retired Pay? As in, if I fully waive DoD Pay for the FedGov retirement, am I eligible for CRSC?


Credit for a period of military service is not allowed if the employee or Member is receiving military retired pay for such period awarded for reasons other than—

(1) Service-connected disability incurred in combat with an enemy of the United States;

(2) Service-connected disability caused by an instrumentality of war and incurred in the line of duty during a period of war (within the meaning of chapter 11 of title 38, United States Code);


Link - Federal Register :: Request Access



Has anyone dealt with this or similar issues in working for federal government post military medical retirement? Any insight would be much appreciated! Additionally, could MRSA (if it ever passes) make this even more confusing if say in a few years that passes? Thanks!

Have you received an answer on this yet? I’m a fed with 7 years now. Just received my retro CRSC and my estimated military earnings for service credit buyback. My Chapter 61 retirement WAS for the service connected condition that I’m now receiving CRSC for and which was due to an instrumentality of war so the the way I understood this is that once I pay for the military time, I can continue to collect my military retirement pay and FERS retirement (including military years) once I hit MRA.

 

[WaitingOnPEBLO]

Have you received an answer on this yet? I’m a fed with 7 years now. Just received my retro CRSC and my estimated military earnings for service credit buyback. My Chapter 61 retirement WAS for the service connected condition that I’m now receiving CRSC for and which was due to an instrumentality of war so the the way I understood this is that once I pay for the military time, I can continue to collect my military retirement pay and FERS retirement (including military years) once I hit MRA.

I have not yet received a clear answer. DFAS told me over the phone it would be a no - as in, you cannot collect CRSC if that time is also being credited for FERS retirement purposes.

Made me wonder if you can collect CRSC for however many years working for the GOVT and then at the very end of GOVT service go ahead and waive military retirement, which would turn off CRSC, and thus allow you to do the buyback and have the MIL time added to the FERS retirement. I asked DFAS about that scenario while on the call and they said they thought that could potentially trigger a significant debt scenario where you'd have to pay back all the CRSC that was paid out to you over the time you were in GOVT service since that retirement was now being "waived" for a different retirement.

 

[maronedp]

I have not yet received a clear answer. DFAS told me over the phone it would be a no - as in, you cannot collect CRSC if that time is also being credited for FERS retirement purposes.

Made me wonder if you can collect CRSC for however many years working for the GOVT and then at the very end of GOVT service go ahead and waive military retirement, which would turn off CRSC, and thus allow you to do the buyback and have the MIL time added to the FERS retirement. I asked DFAS about that scenario while on the call and they said they thought that could potentially trigger a significant debt scenario where you'd have to pay back all the CRSC that was paid out to you over the time you were in GOVT service since that retirement was now being "waived" for a different retirement.

Why would you waive your military retirement. Was your chap 61 retirement not for the service connected condition you are or will receive CRSC for? The OPM guidance says you don’t have to waive the military retired pay if you were retired for that service connected condition and the condition was combat related or instrumentality of war.

 

[WaitingOnPEBLO]

Why would you waive your military retirement. Was your chap 61 retirement not for the service connected condition you are or will receive CRSC for? The OPM guidance says you don’t have to waive the military retired pay if you were retired for that service connected condition and the condition was combat related or instrumentality of war.

I'm still waiting to see how CRSC board is going to code things. Was trying to get answers from OPM/DFAS ahead of time so I could know which decision to make when the results come back. Ideally, I won't have to waive it if it comes back coded correctly. But also, have you looked at the OPM guidance on this?

• "Due to a service-connected disability either incurred in combat with an enemy of the United States or caused by an instrumentality of war and incurred in the line of duty during a period of war..."

So it appears it needs to be BOTH caused by an instrumentality of war AND during a period of war. Periods of war according to VA:

How do I know if I served under an eligible wartime period?​

Under current law, we recognize the following wartime periods to decide eligibility for VA pension benefits:

• Mexican Border period (May 9, 1916, to April 5, 1917, for Veterans who served in Mexico, on its borders, or in adjacent waters)
• World War I (April 6, 1917, to November 11, 1918)
• World War II (December 7, 1941, to December 31, 1946)
• Korean conflict (June 27, 1950, to January 31, 1955)
• Vietnam War era for Veterans who served in the Republic of Vietnam (November 1, 1955, to May 7, 1975)
• Vietnam War era for Veterans who served outside the Republic of Vietnam (August 5, 1964, to May 7, 1975)
• Gulf War (August 2, 1990, through a future date to be set by law or presidential proclamation)

From OPM:

"Both title 5 and title 38 use many of the same terms, but in different ways. For example, service during a "war" is used to determine entitlement to Veterans' preference and service credit under title 5. OPM has always interpreted this to mean a war declared by Congress. But title 38 defines "period of war" to include many non-declared wars, including Korea, Vietnam, and the Persian Gulf. Such conflicts entitle a veteran to VA benefits under title 38, but not necessarily to preference or service credit under title 5. Thus it is critically important to use the correct definitions in determining eligibility for specific rights and benefits in employment"


Thoughts? Doesn't mention GWOT time frame / era.

 

[maronedp]

The CFR says it is title 38 under 842.306 para b2

Copy the OPM verbiage directly into google and you will find the statutory information governing the regulation. Bottom line is if you are receiving CRSC for the condition(s) you were medically retired for and your codes are AC or IN, you should be good to collect military retirement pay + CRSC AND buyback your military time

 

[RonG]

The CFR says it is title 38 under 842.306 para b2

Copy the OPM verbiage directly into google and you will find the statutory information governing the regulation. Bottom line is if you are receiving CRSC for the condition(s) you were medically retired for and your codes are AC or IN, you should be good to collect military retirement pay + CRSC AND buyback your military time

Hello,

Re: “…should be good to collect military retirement pay + CRSC AND buyback your military time”

CRSC replaces waived retired pay (when receiving VA compensation that is approved by a service CRSC board as combat related ) .

There are some cases, where the VA offset is less than the full amount of retired pay and the retiree receives CRSC plus residual retired pay. Example: My first VA rating was 20% and it was approved by the Army CRSC board at 20%. The result:
—VA paid VA comp at 20%
—My DFAS retired pay was reduced by the same amount, leaving residual retired pay
—I received CRSC and residual retired pay plus VA comp

More often, in disability retirement cases, all the retired pay is waived due to the large amount of VA comp and the retiree ends up VA comp and CRSC (in some cases). This comment is based on my observations on this board and another while computing CRSC since circa 2008.

Ron
cc: @RetiredColonel-MikeT

 

[WaitingOnPEBLO]

The CFR says it is title 38 under 842.306 para b2

Copy the OPM verbiage directly into google and you will find the statutory information governing the regulation. Bottom line is if you are receiving CRSC for the condition(s) you were medically retired for and your codes are AC or IN, you should be good to collect military retirement pay + CRSC AND buyback your military time

Unrelated - but did your SCD reflect all of your military time for leave earning purposes? I initially was at 4 / pp but it’s under review to see if I can earn 6/pp due to it being a medical retirement not a traditional retirement.

 

[maronedp]

I negotiated 5.5 years based on my experience and was credited 2 years for deployments, but nothing separately for being a chapter 61 retiree

 

[WaitingOnPEBLO]

I negotiated 5.5 years based on my experience and was credited 2 years for deployments, but nothing separately for being a chapter 61 retiree

You were able to negotiate the rate in which you earn annual leave for a federal job? I've heard of negotiating grade/step at hiring but didn't even know it was option to ask to earn leave at a faster rate than the 4/6/8 per pay period rates depending on SCD.

 

[maronedp]

You were able to negotiate the rate in which you earn annual leave for a federal job? I've heard of negotiating grade/step at hiring but didn't even know it was option to ask to earn leave at a faster rate than the 4/6/8 per pay period rates depending on SCD.

Yes. I originally asked for a higher step and they countered with more leave accrual. Basically, they credited me for 5 1/2 years of SCD for general military time and 2 years for deployments so I started with 7.5 years of SCD

 

[WaitingOnPEBLO]

Yes. I originally asked for a higher step and they countered with more leave accrual. Basically, they credited me for 5 1/2 years of SCD for general military time and 2 years for deployments so I started with 7.5 years of SCD

Incredible. Good for you!

 

[fnreinhart]

All, I want to contribute here because OPM does not always know the law and their knee jerk reaction is to say you can't waive something you already waived (They are wrong in this case).

NOTE: I am medically retired and not eligible for CRSC so can't speak to that.

I currently receive $0 AF retired pay because of my VA compensation waiver. I am about to voluntary retire under FERS after 32 years (18 years FERS plus my 14 year buyback) at the end of this month. OPM is now trying to tell me I will have to waive my VA compensation. I of course googled the regs and they are wrong and I am currently fighting this. The ONLY time you have to waive VA compensation is for a FERS disability retirement (that would be like dual disability and I think that is fairly new). Here are the relevant regs because as noted above I am having to "Hand hold" them through this (My case is currently with the OPM liaison to the AF and if they come back with anything but credit for these years with no VA waiver I will be calling my congressman):
See https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/publications-forms/csrsfers-handbook/c022.pdf See section 22a4.1-1 B2 (which is about CSRS but the FERS section says all of 22A4 also applies).
see also https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/current/07b/07b_12.pdf (latest version para 3.4.3).

Note that earlier versions of DoDFMR had some very squirrely language that OPM will "interpret" full waivers as VA retired pay and that language has been removed (probably they are looking at older regs).

I will update when my case is resolved.

 

[WaitingOnPEBLO]

All, I want to contribute here because OPM does not always know the law and their knee jerk reaction is to say you can't waive something you already waived (They are wrong in this case).

NOTE: I am medically retired and not eligible for CRSC so can't speak to that.

I currently receive $0 AF retired pay because of my VA compensation waiver. I am about to voluntary retire under FERS after 32 years (18 years FERS plus my 14 year buyback) at the end of this month. OPM is now trying to tell me I will have to waive my VA compensation. I of course googled the regs and they are wrong and I am currently fighting this. The ONLY time you have to waive VA compensation is for a FERS disability retirement (that would be like dual disability and I think that is fairly new). Here are the relevant regs because as noted above I am having to "Hand hold" them through this (My case is currently with the OPM liaison to the AF and if they come back with anything but credit for these years with no VA waiver I will be calling my congressman):
See https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/publications-forms/csrsfers-handbook/c022.pdf See section 22a4.1-1 B2 (which is about CSRS but the FERS section says all of 22A4 also applies).
see also https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/current/07b/07b_12.pdf (latest version para 3.4.3).

Note that earlier versions of DoDFMR had some very squirrely language that OPM will "interpret" full waivers as VA retired pay and that language has been removed (probably they are looking at older regs).

I will update when my case is resolved.

Awesome. Thank you. You should also put this in Ron's new thread. This is a common question for lots of folks trying to navigate a med retirement / FERS situation.

CRSC and FERS (Financial Management Regulation info included)

The importance of FMR Chapter 12 with regard to the discussions within this thread, Is that 3.2.1. A member will receive credit for military service without waiver of retired pay, if the member was awarded retired pay: 3.2.1.1. On account of a service connected disability: 3.2.1.1.1. Incurred...

www.pebforum.com

 

[DaveK]

All, I want to contribute here because OPM does not always know the law and their knee jerk reaction is to say you can't waive something you already waived (They are wrong in this case).

NOTE: I am medically retired and not eligible for CRSC so can't speak to that.

I currently receive $0 AF retired pay because of my VA compensation waiver. I am about to voluntary retire under FERS after 32 years (18 years FERS plus my 14 year buyback) at the end of this month. OPM is now trying to tell me I will have to waive my VA compensation. I of course googled the regs and they are wrong and I am currently fighting this. The ONLY time you have to waive VA compensation is for a FERS disability retirement (that would be like dual disability and I think that is fairly new). Here are the relevant regs because as noted above I am having to "Hand hold" them through this (My case is currently with the OPM liaison to the AF and if they come back with anything but credit for these years with no VA waiver I will be calling my congressman):
See https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/publications-forms/csrsfers-handbook/c022.pdf See section 22a4.1-1 B2 (which is about CSRS but the FERS section says all of 22A4 also applies).
see also https://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/current/07b/07b_12.pdf (latest version para 3.4.3).

Note that earlier versions of DoDFMR had some very squirrely language that OPM will "interpret" full waivers as VA retired pay and that language has been removed (probably they are looking at older regs).

I will update when my case is resolved.

Sir,

It appears you are misreading retired pay for OPM/fers pay in the reg you cited. A federal civilian absolutely can receive fers disability and veterans disability at the same time in full amounts. You can also receive a portion of your retire pay or otherwise known as military retired pay and social security disability. Social security disability interacts with fers disability. VA disability interacts with military retirement pay. Both of those interactions can cause a reduction depending on individual situations.

Dave

 

[fnreinhart]

3.43 implies that you don't have to renounce it if you are NOT retiring for disability. I am not retiring for that so I didn't delve further but it appears there might be a waiver required based on that language (although there is quite a bit of info saying otherwise on the web). I will move the outcome of my case as suggested to that thread: CRSC and FERS (Financial Management Regulation info included)