Military members and mandatory vaccines

[chaplaincharlie]

I recently received a message from a military member who wanted to know what his options were if a vaccine mandate for COVID is established by the military. That is a legal question and outside my expertise, so I referred him to legal. Today this article was posted by AP:

Potential military vaccine mandate brings distrust, support

A former Army lawyer says his firm has received calls from hundreds of service members since President Joe Biden asked the Pentagon to look at adding the COVID-19 vaccine to the shots troops are required to get.

apnews.com

 

[RonG]

Mike,

Thank you for that informative article. I often looked at similar matters with the thought, "The military is not a democracy." However, this is a health issue that involves multiple considerations. Personally, I don't see a solution that will be attractive to all concerned. It will be interesting to see the legal outcome.

Ron

 

[Elementglt]

Personally, I see both sides, but I fear the potential results of either. Never in our lifetime have we seen such a controversial issue with a broad range of data being driven by anecdotal stories. Facts are being jaded by fears and that scares me, but we will see what comes out of it. I thank God I am no longer in that conversation and pray for everyone who is.

 

[chaplaincharlie]

My wife and I chose to be vaccinated. We are both licensed healthcare professionals and were 1A eligible.

Like @Elementglt, I see both sides of the equation. Informed consent comes into play, as does public health which is an exception to consent.

I have done some number crunching. Using the latest data. Mind you the All Americans includes vaccinated Americans. The problem with comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated is that vaccinations have occured over a span of time.


source of COVID info
https://www.cdc.gov/.../2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html
Source of population data
https://www.census.gov/popclock/
I used a population of 332,599,368
----------------- --ALL AMERICANS-----Vaccinated
Tested positive---36.15%--------------- 0.077%
Hospitalized------0.185%-------------- 0.004%
Deaths -----------0.0023%------------- 0.001%

 

[Vk777]

My wife and I chose to be vaccinated. We are both licensed healthcare professionals and were 1A eligible.

Like @Elementglt, I see both sides of the equation. Informed consent comes into play, as does public health which is an exception to consent.

I have done some number crunching. Using the latest data. Mind you the All Americans includes vaccinated Americans. The problem with comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated is that vaccinations have occured over a span of time.


source of COVID info
https://www.cdc.gov/.../2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html
Source of population data
https://www.census.gov/popclock/
I used a population of 332,599,368
----------------- --ALL AMERICANS-----Vaccinated
Tested positive---36.15%--------------- 0.077%
Hospitalized------0.185%-------------- 0.004%
Deaths -----------0.0023%------------- 0.001%

Personally, I see both sides, but I fear the potential results of either. Never in our lifetime have we seen such a controversial issue with a broad range of data being driven by anecdotal stories. Facts are being jaded by fears and that scares me, but we will see what comes out of it. I thank God I am no longer in that conversation and pray for everyone who is.

I got the vaccine, I really did not want it but had the fear of being ostracized if I didn’t play the game. I remember being required to get anthrax shots early on my career all the way up until 05 or 07. Has anyone heard of known side affects of that? I heard testicular hypofunction is a side affect and I have low t

 

[Elementglt]

My wife and I chose to be vaccinated. We are both licensed healthcare professionals and were 1A eligible.

Like @Elementglt, I see both sides of the equation. Informed consent comes into play, as does public health which is an exception to consent.

I have done some number crunching. Using the latest data. Mind you the All Americans includes vaccinated Americans. The problem with comparing vaccinated to unvaccinated is that vaccinations have occured over a span of time.


source of COVID info
https://www.cdc.gov/.../2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html
Source of population data
https://www.census.gov/popclock/
I used a population of 332,599,368
----------------- --ALL AMERICANS-----Vaccinated
Tested positive---36.15%--------------- 0.077%
Hospitalized------0.185%-------------- 0.004%
Deaths -----------0.0023%------------- 0.001%

Yes, I agree as well we must stay informed, but this data in of itself to me is questionable. The CDC in my option has become more political lately, and the sheer amount of independent variables that exists alone allows for this quantitative figure to be skewed beyond usability. You did point out one issue with the span of time, but another variable not talked about often is weather patterns. The uptick in heat in the southern states are acting a lot like the northern states in January/February, more indoor activity. So, the only conclusive result I can draw is indoor activity will spike cases, but vaccinated and not vaccinated is still questionable. Look at the reported cases in China (once again data is very questionable here), they are reporting most new cases in certain areas are from majority vaccinated. Also, there is well devolved studies from NIH, FDA, and CDC from past virial strains (FLU), claiming that vaccines cause mutations in order to impact the host. Some could conclude that the vaccine is influencing the mutations, and on the biological level I can understand this. However, even with this data being basically an educated (debatable) guess we can see death tolls way down, and if we look at other countries ahead of our situation for the vaccinated, we see the positive in such cases close the gap. I conclude that there is just too much misinformation and for that I made a choice, but either way I respect everyone's choice in this matter, becuase I don't know all the facts either. I challenge anyone who says they do.

 

[Elementglt]

I got the vaccine, I really did not want it but had the fear of being ostracized if I didn’t play the game. I remember being required to get anthrax shots early on my career all the way up until 05 or 07. Has anyone heard of known side affects of that? I heard testicular hypofunction is a side affect and I have low t

There is a lot of information on side effects, but many of which is not primary sources and debatable to say the least. There is no way to know all of the side effects short and long term at this point. Anyone that tells you other wise I challenge them to produce the facts, stay informed and know the difference in the type of sources you receive your data from. If you want to go deeper, look at the sponsorships that influence said sources, and challenge the latter.

 

[RonG]

There is a lot of information on side effects, but many of which is not primary sources and debatable to say the least. There is no way to know all of the side effects short and long term at this point. Anyone that tells you other wise I challenge them to produce the facts, stay informed and know the difference in the type of sources you receive your data from. If you want to go deeper, look at the sponsorships that influence said sources, and challenge the latter.

Very good.

Speaking only for myself (obviously), my sources of information do not include Facebook or other social media, politicians, or the opinions of the many employees of cable news networks (all of them). I read a significant amount of material from health professionals; however, I look at all of it with a critical eye.

Finally, as I told an acquaintance recently, if I need another heart procedure, I will not research the matter on Facebook (example) or ask for opinions from my neighbors.

Similarly, when I need a repair for my Jeep, I do not consult with the clerk at the nearest convenience store.

Ron

 

[Vk777]

https://www.va.gov/vetapp12/files1/1203509.txt

There are a lot of other claims. I found an article that was hanging up in corpsmans office about it. Anyway it raises the question why do they not expose us to that anymore and why did they make it voluntary after it was mandatory for a number of years? Same goes for this vaccine it should be by choice. But like many do not understand we are just a pawn in someone else’s bigger game and if you don’t think so you are fools

 

[RonG]

Hello @Vk777

One can disagree without insulting others.

I don’t agree with many things in many areas; however, that is not evidence that the others are fools or stupid.

Regards,
Ron

 

[Manmumar]

I got the vaccine, I really did not want it but had the fear of being ostracized if I didn’t play the game. I remember being required to get anthrax shots early on my career all the way up until 05 or 07. Has anyone heard of known side affects of that? I heard testicular hypofunction is a side affect and I have low t

I said "no" to the anthrax vaccine in 2002 was courtmartialed in 03. BCNR overturned in 19. It disappoints me that our government hasn't learned enough from those lessons to have handled this better. When COVID was voluntary, the Marines had the lowest acceptance rates, now they are leading the charge on returning members to full duty. It would be interesting to see if other services follow suit.

Marines Make It Easier for Those Kicked Out over Vaccines to Come Back | Military.com

www.military.com

@Vk777 while I was in the Brig for said court-martial, I met 2 Marines that had accepted the shots and had conditions that at the time were denied association. One in particular was 23 years old who told me that he could no longer ejaculate after getting his shots.

I know a man now, who is 100% VA rated, unable to work for systemic neurological issues that completely debilitate him when he has flare ups. The VA linked his neurological condition to the anthrax vaccine.

I know a woman who was married to a service member who after he got the shots, she would feel burning in her uterus after coitus. She ended up having a hysterectormy.

There's a Marine on this site who claims to have received all 6 shots and during a deployment to the sandbox he says he contracted anthrax and was put on 'social distance' orders from his command and is now fighting the VA on his health condition.

Some may consider these tales as anecdotal. They're not until they happen to you.