MEB / PEB NOGO. WISH TO STAY IN FOR 30 YRS

3

38A

PEB Forum Regular Member
Registered Member
Good afternoon Ladies and Gentlemen,
I know that many times folks wish to remain anonymous ( and for good reason). I respect that choice.
In my situation, I feel I have nothing to lose by sharing and perhaps gaining additional insight from folks way more verse in this process than I could ever be.
* Suffered a Cardiac event AUG 2021
* MEB FEB 2022 ( unfavorable. I wasn't there)
* Appealed and requested PEB MAR 2022
* Had a procedure NOV 2022. Surgeon found me healthy and cleared me for duty
* MEB Board states that they likely will find me FFD FEB 2023
* Examined again and declared FFD AUG 2023
* PEB declares me UFD AUG 2023
Recommends Admin Separation.

Attorney states that we can appeal again.

Am I grasping at straws here, or is this SOP ?

Field grade with 27 years of service.

Any and all insight is greatly appreciated.
 
I'm extremely confused. Both the MEB and PEB found you unfit but they're recommending an administrative separation? Are you Active Duty or Reserve/National Guard?
 
That's correct.

I am USAR. I was on ADOS headed to HN .
The initial intent was to discharge me and send me home to " deal with it with my personal healthcare provider" as I was succinctly told.
When I said NO, you fix me first, I was sent to the WTB at JBLM until DEC 2021, then home for Remote care.

All Medical care has been through SutterHealth.
Head of Cardio at Stanford cleared me and found me FFD.
They initially found me UFD on FEB 2022, less than six months after the initial event ( even though the initial recovery plan was med and cardio rehab for a year).
PEB was held today. Took them less than 15 min to find me UFD.
I run, swim and lift 5x wk. Super healthy habits and diets. No preexisting condition. 27 yrs and the recommendation is Admin Separation and severance. Just like that ?
 
Hello @38A

The subject matter experts on this board for cases such as yours are:
@chaplaincharlie
@Provis
@Guardguy11
and several other members who are not moderators.

One or all of the skilled folks I listed will likely reply to your post.

Good Luck,
Ron
 
Thanks Ron.

Trying really hard not to lose faith in the big green machine.

Lou
 
38A said:
Thanks Ron.

Trying really hard not to lose faith in the big green machine.

Lou
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This is where a competent dedicated private IDES attorney might have saved you a lot of trouble. You are not out of appeals. There are more that can be done after the formal PEB as the Army has recently changed their guidelines on the IDES appeals process. Though it hasn't been done in practice yet to my knowledge. I will send you a contact offline to talk to. At the very least you can find out if you have a fighting chance. It's a lot harder to get this stuff turned around at the end when you trust the system until you are backed into a corner.
 
Provis said:
This is where a competent dedicated private IDES attorney might have saved you a lot of trouble. You are not out of appeals. There are more that can be done after the formal PEB as the Army has recently changed their guidelines on the IDES appeals process. Though it hasn't been done in practice yet to my knowledge. I will send you a contact offline to talk to. At the very least you can find out if you have a fighting chance. It's a lot harder to get this stuff turned around at the end when you trust the system until you are backed into a corner.
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I retained private counsel. He was in conversation with a former Board member ( she had just PCSd) who stated that they will likely find me FFD.
This PEB was all new people.

My attorney felt that we had this in the bag. Unfortunately the outcome didn't turn out to be.
There are a number of irregularities that were overlooked, starting with the injury NOT being in LOD, which it was.
They also pulled the PUHLEs which it has always been 1 across the board, except now that there is an existing P3. Counsel reiterated that this would be ammended after Board findings per AR. They seemed to overlook that too.
And the Memo from the Chief of Cardiology at Stanford hospital wasn't good either ??
I have no doubt in the confidence of Counsel. I don't believe he would have made assumptions without base.
In all honesty, I believe that their decision has already been made before the beginning of the PEB.
 
The problem is they are going off of AR 40-501. When it comes to retention standards especially those of the heart it is difficult to be found FFD, regardless of what other doctors say or recommend or your time in service. Civilian doctors don’t know the regulations. Although at times it can be beneficial for a civilian doctor to write a recommendation especially for instances such as a COAD or COAR. In your situation it does not override regulations. You are healthy, run, bike swim, etc…, but will you require a profile? Will that profile significantly prevent you from performing your duties? (Training, ACFT/APFT). Although 30 YOS would be more beneficial, but your situation is no different from those struggling to hit their TIS that would qualify them for retirement pay whether regular or non-regular. It is an uphill fight my friend and I wish you the best battle buddy!
 
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I agree with @Provis. I’m glad you already have private counsel. One can be FFD, with a history of a cardiac event. Your grade and MOS will affect the service’s decision. Everything is waiverable.
 
chaplaincharlie said:
I agree with @Provis. I’m glad you already have private counsel. One can be FFD, with a history of a cardiac event. Your grade and MOS will affect the service’s decision. Everything is waiverable.
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I can agree with both @Provis and @chaplaincharlie. It’s better to fight for something and lose than to not fight at all. From my understanding of the original post a big factor is attaining 30 YOS, assuming for retirement purposes. In regulation it states a
SM will not be retained IOT increase retirement benefits once one already is qualified for retirement. As a 38 series (Civil Affairs Officer) which I would imagine can be somewhat a physically demanding job, and requires deployment capability, I just think it will be difficult to be retained for continued service. Like I said it’s better to fight than not fight at all.
 
Appointed counsel is like a Public defender, checking the box to cover themselves that I was afforded Legal counsel. No thanks.

It is already an uphill battle, every day. I have a 4 yr old child with Autism and a 1 yr old.
Leaving me high and dry without TRICARE is not acceptable. They can shove that separation lump sum.

I will keep up the fight until all avenues are exhausted.
 
CrustyGrunt said:
I can agree with both @Provis and @chaplaincharlie. It’s better to fight for something and lose than to not fight at all. From my understanding of the original post a big factor is attaining 30 YOS, assuming for retirement purposes. In regulation it states a
SM will not be retained IOT increase retirement benefits once one already is qualified for retirement. As a 38 series (Civil Affairs Officer) which I would imagine can be somewhat a physically demanding job, and requires deployment capability, I just think it will be difficult to be retained for continued service. Like I said it’s better to fight than not fight at all.
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Couple of things I left out, I need the 30 after making 05, to retire with 36 months TIG. Not for financial gain.
As a senior 04 duties in the field are rare at this point in a MAJs career path. 90% will be as an Advisor, Liaison officer or at an Embassy. Only times I saw real field duty as an 04 was with GRP.
.Would love it again, just not the reality of the job at this stage.
 
Hello @38A

Since a retirement would involve the average high three base pay (total of highest 36 months of pay, divided by 36), it seems there would be a financial gain; however, the earned promotion to LTC seems to be paramount in your case. That would influence me as well.

Do you have 20 good years for a non-regular retirement ?

Ron
 
RonG said:
Hello @38A

Since a retirement would involve the average high three base pay (total of highest 36 months of pay, divided by 36), it seems there would be a financial gain; however, the earned promotion to LTC seems to be paramount in your case. That would influence me as well.

Do you have 20 good years for a non-regular retirement ?

Ron
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27+ good years. Combined AD, NG and USAR time. About 3900 points.
I've been on ADOS since 2021.
 
I want to thank publicly to all the members of this forum that have reached out offline with advice and additional insight.
It is tremendously appreciated.

That said,
Rather than wait for the written notification to come from the PEB in the next 10 days, and as I am not really getting legal guidance aside from getting ready to hit me up with another bill,
I have decided to be more proactive and do some legwork myself.

1. Reached out directly to my CMD ( new CoC has taken over) and introduced myself and briefed them on my situation.
DCO offered an MFR endorsed by him or the CG stating the need for retention in my MOS.

2. Made an appt with PCM at Travis AFB to get a Cardio physician referral.

3. Requesting evaluation from USAF Cardiologist to examine and hopefully clear me, so I can request change of the P3 to a P2 or 1.

I don't know what else to do, frankly.
As mentioned, not getting clear guidance where we go next.
 
Would someone explain what "regular" and " non-regular" retirement mean ? I have never heard of those terms. Thank you
 
38A said:
Would someone explain what "regular" and " non-regular" retirement mean ? I have never heard of those terms. Thank you
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Hello @38A

Regular Retirement = 20 years or more of active duty
Non-regular Retirement = Reserve/NG retirement (20 "Good years" and meets age requirement). The retired pay is based on creditable points/360.

Recently, I have seen the term, "Non-Traditional Retirement" used in place of "Non-Regular Retirement", but most often, one sees "Non-Regular" used.

Ron

Edited to add:
Ref: "27+ good years. Combined AD, NG and USAR time. About 3900 points."
3900/360 = 10.83 Active Duty Equivalent
10.83 x 2.5% = 27.08% longevity multiplier (2% is used for blended retirement)
Average high three base pay x longevity multiplier = retired pay for non-regular retiree

Average high three base pay is the total of the highest 36 months of pay, divided by 36.
 
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@retiredguy - Got another LOD not in the line of duty when he was clearly on orders. It's like they are not even trying to hid it.
 
Good morning/ afternoon all,

Just sharing with an update on my failed attempt to reverse the Board's decision and stave off involuntary retirement.
Mandatory retired 31 DEC 2023
Applied for VA NOV 17 2023
Applied for early retirement pay DEC 2023
Even applied for state Disability

VA VSOs don't do anything for you.
The VA is months behind
HRC is months behind
Congressman I reached out to went silent

57 yrs old, no pension, no medical disability, Stamps runs out next month.
I have a child who's autistic who depended on my TRICARE Prime, which I will lose .
So, from 185k a year to zero .

How are folks surviving in the meantime?
 
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