Adsep while awaiting PEB findings

I am currently in the Marine Corps, I am on BCP and am awaiting PEB findings.
Recently I didn't mean height/weight standards for the extension on my BCP. They will be sending up an admin sep package. I am expecting my findings from the PEBLO in a month or so. The admin sep package has not yet been started but will start shortly. The medical board is for my back which is unrelated to my weight gain. Does the medical process and medical seperation trump admin sep? Or is it whatever comes first? OR whille I still be subject to admin sep even if findings come back as unfit and they approve a med sep?

 

[JoelPettit]

@Blanketman

Sadly, IDES and AdSeps are a dual-processing system, but only for certain level issues. SECNAV M-1850.1, Chapter 2, Paragraph 9. Because is it unwise for attorneys to give legal advice on these forums, it is hard to address your case. Please go speak to your PEB counsel, be they the FPEB or IPEB counsel. This is not a novel issue, but it is an issue that needs to be addressed ASAP. Also, see my related post here: IDES found unfit for duty

SECNAV M-1850.1, Chapter 2, Paragraph 9:

c. Members being processed for any type of involuntary administrative separation and who are referred into the DES may continue to be processed for determination of fitness for continued naval service.

(1) If the local Separation Authority (SA) believes the member should not enter the DES because they are being involuntarily administratively processed under provisions that authorize a characterization of service of other than honorable conditions, the DES case must be referred to the first General Officer/Flag Officer (GO/FO) in the chain of command for a final determination of referral into the DES or disapproval. Once referred into the DES, these members will continue to be processed in the DES unless the GO/FO noted above disapproves such continuation.

(2) The SA for enlisted dual processing cases shall be the first GO/FO in the Service Member’s chain of command unless a higher authority is required. The SA for officers is governed by reference (h). The SA may direct separation prior to completion of the DES process if the SA determines and documents, in writing, that the member should be separated for the misconduct despite the ratable medical condition.

(3) Refer to reference (i) or (j) for the appropriate SA for all Involuntary Administrative Separations of Service Members diagnosed with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) or Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI), and for any Service Members with 18 or more years of total Active-Duty military service.

(4) For PTSD, TBI, or other mental health conditions, an appropriately privileged military health care provider will be consulted for a medical opinion as to whether the ratable medical condition that caused the referral into the DES contributed to a basis for which the member is being separated.

I hope this helps,

Joel

Disclosure: I was a Marine JAG, Active Duty and Reserve IPEB & FPEB attorney, federal government civilian FPEB & TDRL-focused attorney at the Navy PEB, and now a private attorney focused solely on IDES cases. This post is meant as procedural insight only and should not be construed as legal advice related to a specific case or a legal analysis of facts thereof.

 

[Blanketman]

@Blanketman

Sadly, IDES and AdSeps are a dual-processing system, but only for certain level issues. SECNAV M-1850.1, Chapter 2, Paragraph 9. Because is it unwise for attorneys to give legal advice on these forums, it is hard to address your case. Please go speak to your PEB counsel, be they the FPEB or IPEB counsel. This is not a novel issue, but it is an issue that needs to be addressed ASAP. Also, see my related post here: IDES found unfit for duty

SECNAV M-1850.1, Chapter 2, Paragraph 9:

c. Members being processed for any type of involuntary administrative separation and who are referred into the DES may continue to be processed for determination of fitness for continued naval service.

(1) If the local Separation Authority (SA) believes the member should not enter the DES because they are being involuntarily administratively processed under provisions that authorize a characterization of service of other than honorable conditions, the DES case must be referred to the first General Officer/Flag Officer (GO/FO) in the chain of command for a final determination of referral into the DES or disapproval. Once referred into the DES, these members will continue to be processed in the DES unless the GO/FO noted above disapproves such continuation.

(2) The SA for enlisted dual processing cases shall be the first GO/FO in the Service Member’s chain of command unless a higher authority is required. The SA for officers is governed by reference (h). The SA may direct separation prior to completion of the DES process if the SA determines and documents, in writing, that the member should be separated for the misconduct despite the ratable medical condition.

(3) Refer to reference (i) or (j) for the appropriate SA for all Involuntary Administrative Separations of Service Members diagnosed with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) or Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI), and for any Service Members with 18 or more years of total Active-Duty military service.

(4) For PTSD, TBI, or other mental health conditions, an appropriately privileged military health care provider will be consulted for a medical opinion as to whether the ratable medical condition that caused the referral into the DES contributed to a basis for which the member is being separated.

I hope this helps,

Joel

Disclosure: I was a Marine JAG, Active Duty and Reserve IPEB & FPEB attorney, federal government civilian FPEB & TDRL-focused attorney at the Navy PEB, and now a private attorney focused solely on IDES cases. This post is meant as procedural insight only and should not be construed as legal advice related to a specific case or a legal analysis of facts thereof.

Thank you, I was also referred to talk to the JAG. So far nobody in my command knows how the processes work at the same time. I am not in a normal fleet like location so finding answers is so very hard. Luckily for me it seems is that the admin separation piece has not yet started as I still have to sign my paperwork from not making it through BCP. As a previeous JAG, do you know what the process of that is like? I have 246 days until my original EAS and I think the PEB findings will be here earlier than the admin sep happens. Do you think that I am being overzealous with that assumption?

 

[JoelPettit]

Put simply, the process is never clean; everyone is lost when IDES issues intersect with other areas of admin or law. If your unit is in the dark, it's not your job to help them see the light. Look at my previous post regarding the BCP process and timing. In my experience, most units would rather let the IDES play out than go through a potentially messy AdSep with a disabled Marine. Still, every case is different, and I don't know your unit CO. Go to the DESCP website and contact them so you can speak with PEB counsel. Timelines will matter and they will be able to help you understand how the two processes may overlap, regading your case. Just remember, you have the right to consult legal counsel for an AdSep. For a very broad overview: Administrative Separation

 

[Blanketman]

Put simply, the process is never clean; everyone is lost when IDES issues intersect with other areas of admin or law. If your unit is in the dark, it's not your job to help them see the light. Look at my previous post regarding the BCP process and timing. In my experience, most units would rather let the IDES play out than go through a potentially messy AdSep with a disabled Marine. Still, every case is different, and I don't know your unit CO. Go to the DESCP website and contact them so you can speak with PEB counsel. Timelines will matter and they will be able to help you understand how the two processes may overlap, regading your case. Just remember, you have the right to consult legal counsel for an AdSep. For a very broad overview: Administrative Separation

I found this in the Marine Corps Seps Manual.
Assuming that failing BCP falls under administration separation at Honorable or General under honorable. I think this means that my DES/PEB would take precedence right?

MCO 1900.16 chapter 2
5. Dual Processing: Involuntary Administrative Separation and Disability Evaluation

a. Per SECNAV Memorandum of 1 June 2016, Disability Evaluation System Dual Processing, Service members being processed for involuntary administrative separation who have a ratable condition under the Veterans Affairs Schedule for Rating Disabilities (VASRD) limiting their performance of duty may be referred to or continue to be processed in the Disability Evaluation System (DES). DES processing is not superseded by involuntary administrative separation for Service members with ratable conditions that limit their performance of duty, unless they are being processed for administrative separation based upon provisions that authorize a characterization of service under other than honorable conditions (e.g., misconduct, security, or unsatisfactory participation in the Ready Reserve).